That'll do for today
Time for me to skip off, and thank you all for your many emails, comments, tweets and thoughts – only sorry that there wasn’t time and space to include them all, as this subject has provoked a lot of genuinely interesting discussion.
In case you’ve missed anything, a summary of the day below:
- Sam Allardyce has spoken briefly to media and says “entrapment has won” after his departure from the England job.
- Allardyce will take time out abroad to reflect and does not know whether or not this was his last job in football.
- Damian Collins has suggested football could do with a WADA-type monitoring agency.
- Greg Dyke has described Allardyce as “stupid” and his actions as “ridiculous”.
- Jose Mourinho has been rather more sympathetic to Allardyce, whom he “likes and respects”.
- The LMA have said they are “extremely concerned” by the allegations made against a number of other managers.
- The Association of Football Agents have said: “The global move to deregulation has not worked and it has allowed the system to be more open to manipulation and abuse.”
In addition, fine pieces on different aspects of all this were written by, among others, Daniel Taylor, Owen Gibson and Ed Aarons.
We’ve also learned not to go in too heavy on the film ‘Entrapment’. Some people really liked it.
This one is far from over, so do stay close to the site. And we’ll chat again soon. Bye!
The real losers in all this, of course, are Sunderland – who are now Sunderland again, at least until April or so, and for what?
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Rob Corcoran feels another manager might have been given a softer ride. I must admit, the thought had occurred here too:
“A lot from the people who say Allardyce should have gone state his arrogance and that he was thought of as being dodgy, but arrogance isn’t a sackable offence and while he may be ‘thought of’ as dodgy, there’s nothing illegal he’s done and he even strongly spoke against bungs in the video. Essentially they’re happy he’s gone because they didn’t like him, but again that isn’t a sackable offence.
“I saw someone else’s email saying he was negotiating contracts outside of his one at the FA, which is a bit unfair given that he said he’d only do it with the FA’s permission. On top of that can anyone honestly say they’d turn down 400k if they were offered it? He got the job of his dreams and he’s lost it over a casual chat. Seems like a massive overreaction. I just can’t help feeling that if all of this had been any manager other than Allardyce they’d have got a slap on the wrist.”
Mike Miller, the independent chairman of the Association of Football Agents, has made a statement on the body’s behalf. You’ll recall Jamie Jackson’s story below; they were split on how to approach all this. Anyway, Miller’s statement isn’t particularly short but I’ll reproduce it all for you to pick the bones from:
“The AFA recognises that while recent media reports involving possible misconduct in relation to player transfers remain unproven, they do raise important questions and serve to highlight the need for greater transparency and a new regulatory framework in this area of the football industry. Agents play an important role in the business of the game and we want to ensure that players and clubs get the best possible service within an agreed set of rules and regulations which apply to all stakeholders.
“We are totally committed to helping any investigation into the various allegations and to continue to work with the relevant football authorities, led by The FA, to further explore what steps can be taken in English football to put in place an effective system of licensing and codes of conduct for agents.
“The global move to deregulation has not worked and it has allowed the system to be more open to manipulation and abuse. The time has come for the key stakeholders in this country to genuinely come together to establish a new framework for the future and we would be happy to progress those discussions with immediate effect.
“Ultimately, changes to the current set-up should also be enforceable globally and this must involve UEFA and FIFA to help spread best practice around the world and re-introduce a system of licensing and regulation which works and is meaningful. We can make a positive start here to promote a better approach across the game.”
Quiz! Quiz! Quiz! You just know Allardyce’s reign will be a pub quiz question, if pubs still exist, in 50 years’ time – so here is Paul Campbell’s fiendish quiz about Big Sam and England managers who preceded him:
Christopher Williams emails: “Typical response from an arrogant individual who has always been thought of by many as ‘dodgy’. Entrapment did not win Sam - your greed and inability to dedicate yourself to the England football team led to your demise! Was never the right choice anyway.”
If there was any rolling news on this story at the moment I’d bring it to you, but there isn’t. Might yet be a statement from McGarvey before we clock off. I suspect, though, that the major movement on all of this will come when the newspapers’ first editions are available.
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A succession plan from BTL:
Who will take over the England Under-21s now that Southgate has stepped up, incidentally? Smart money is surely on Aidy Boothroyd, coach of the Under-20s. The Under-21s play Bosnia and Kazakhstan in October; win those and they qualify for next summer’s Uefa Under-21 Championship.
Terry Venables has a home near Allardyce’s holiday place, too. We heard Hoddle suggested for the England job earlier – but aren’t we all forgetting El Tel?
@NickAmes82 If it's the Scott McGarvey I remember from my Panini Football 83 sticker book I hope he still has that amazing barnet. pic.twitter.com/DXuTicuyGp
— Stewart Todd (@StewTodd) September 28, 2016
Might have lost a few in recent days.
Allardyce’s holiday place on the Costa Blanca is genuinely named Big Sam’s Villa. How on earth had I missed that? And should Roberto Di Matteo be worried?
3/3
— Jonathan Shrager (@JonathanShrager) September 28, 2016
Scott #McGarvey's full version of events on the #Allardyce situation will be published very soon in a national outlet
We’ll have our eyes peeled...
From Jamie Jackson, here, on the Association of Football Agents, who are divided over their response to the Allardyce situation:
Let’s throw it forward. You’re Gareth Southgate. You win England’s next few qualifiers. Should you keep the job in the long term? It’s a tricky one I think, because I think it should only take bog-standard competence to get England through that group – as they’ve proved before. It’s around tournament time that things get really tough. Not saying Southgate can’t or shouldn’t do it, just that it might be hard to tell how good he actually is in this position. One way to find out? Or appoint a more proven name?
Carl Bland isn’t particularly enamoured with the journalism that got us here:
“I’d have a lot more respect for the Telegraph report had it been an operation to expose actual events - that would be proper investigative journalism. To take the rumours, thoroughly research them and expose if necessary would have a lot more substance.
“Entrapment, via an entirely fabricated scenario, will never have the same resonance. Sam had to go, no question - but I doubt the journos in question will need to get fitted for new suits come awards season.”
Big update from Sky’s Kaveh Solhekol: he says Allardyce’s agent, Mark Curtis, became suspicious after the first meeting with the “businessmen” involved in the sting and advised Allardyce not to attend the second meeting. But, so the story goes, Allardyce ignored the advice...
Juan Torres wonders where Allardyce will pitch up next:
“How long before Big Sam gets another job? With West Ham and Sunderland both off to terrible starts, will they go back to the Big Sam well? Or will he have to go back down to the Championship? Or, will he have to change his name to Samuele Allardici to distinguish himself and vie for the top jobs?”
Sympathy from Mourinho, then, certainly to some degree. None from Dyke – of whose next appearance in the pulpit I’ll be sure to apprise you – though. It’s a divisive one, this, as the comments below the line – not to mention all the emails I’m getting from you all – demonstrate.
Stop what you’re doing, Jose Mourinho has spoken on Allardyce:
“The only thing I can say is that I like Sam, I feel sorry for that because I know it was the dream job [for him] and I feel very sorry. The second thing is that what happened is not going to interfere in any way in my relationship with him, I liked him and respected him before and that is not going to change. The third thing is that this is between him and the FA and I have nothing to say about it really.”
In that ill-fated conversation, Allardyce suggested that Enner Valencia was third-party owned when he signed for West Ham. West Ham joint-chairman David Sullivan has, in the article linked here, explained that is not entirely true. Quote below:
“Valencia’s economic rights were wholly owned by Pachuca when we bought him. Sam is wrong. But he didn’t know much about the actual transfer deal other than wanting the player. We have not broken any rules on third party ownership.”
Here is a statement from the League Managers’ Association about the allegations currently brewing around several managers:
The LMA is extremely concerned by the current situation of allegations made against a number of managers. We take the allegations very seriously as they are obviously damaging to the game.
We are in regular communication with The FA to establish the facts relating to those allegations. We know The FA has requested full disclosure, from the Telegraph, of all the relevant information it has and we are working with The FA in dealing with the allegations, following the correct processes and procedures.
With regard to Sam Allardyce’s departure from his role at The FA, the LMA was in regular communication with Sam and The FA throughout the process. We fully respect the decision that they have mutually agreed.
Greg Dyke is on my television screen. My inbuilt response to Greg Dyke is to think the opposite of anything he thinks, to be completely honest. But here is what he says on Sky, one of numerous media outlets he seems to have been touring in the last 24 hours:
On whether Roy Hodgson could ever have got caught up in something like this:
“I got to know Roy, the character of the man is not driven by money, I just don’t think he would have done. But who knows, particularly in football, an industry where there’s so much money washing around?”
On Allardyce’s character:
“I was leaving just at the time they were looking for someone to take the role, so wasn’t involved. There’s always been stories, but there are stories about so many people.”
Does he feel sorry for Allardyce?
“No, I think he’s been stupid. It’s just a ridiculous thing to do. He’d just got the job he always dreamed of, so why on earth does he go to meetings offering him £400k and say things that are irrelevant? It tells you something about the man doesn’t it? What’s he doing that for?”
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Email from George Rogers, who wonders whether Allardyce could in fact have been deployed to help the FA:
“I think this was the wrong response. If there’s a problem with rules breaking, tackle it. If Big Sam has insights into how people get around the rules, lets get him to set up a task force busting those loop holes. Sacking the man and washing their hands of the appointment is just scapegoating.
“Further more, I don’t understand those fans who resent the man for lining his pockets. I don’t know of anyone who would turn down flat the offer of 400k for a few hours motivational speaking. I don’t understand those people who feel that as England manager he must always represent the highest ideals of sporting purity. It’s not as if he was hired for his sporting purity in the first place. Didn’t we hire Sam exactly because he’s a no nonsense man who’ll talk nonsense over a pint?
“This is just a side show that lets everyone else feel superior whilst solving nothing. They’re not sending a message, they’re not stopping corruption, they’re just covering their own behinds.”
Another Roy Greenslade piece here, looking at the media side of the Allardyce situation. He builds on his article from yesterday by explaining that public interest was at the heart of the revelations:
Fairly sure "Entrapment has won" was first said by Jonathan Pearce on Robot Wars.
— Duncan Alexander (@oilysailor) September 28, 2016
The FA’s governance team is still awaiting the transcript of the conversation that did for Allardyce, by the way, before the decide whether anyone should be formally charged over what happened.
A story that has appeared in the Mail suggests Allardyce was a partner in a company – that appears to run a boutique hotel in Newcastle – alongside Wayne Rooney and Joe Hart, among others. Obviously the precise nature of any business arrangement is not available to us but on the face of it that might be a bit problematic for an England manager. He has (had) to pick, or not pick, those guys.
More seriously, here’s your Morrison/Allardyce explainer. Fascinating stuff:
no 1 listened to a word I said
— ravel morrison (@morrisonravel) September 28, 2016
Not true Ravel – I, too, agree Paul should have stayed with Mary, Sue and Mel on the BBC.
If you’ll permit me 20 minutes or so, I’m going to go and gather some fuel to see us through what fun this afternoon brings. So “BRB” as the kids say – here’s a summary of this morning to keep you frothing:
- Sam Allardyce has spoken briefly to media and says “entrapment has won” after his departure from the England job.
- Allardyce will take time out abroad to reflect and does not know whether or not this was his last job in football.
- Damian Collins has suggested football could do with a WADA-type monitoring agency.
- You should read this, by Owen Gibson.
- And you should also read this, by Ed Aarons.
Richard Cunningham notes: “The red tops seem to have missed a trick here, I think. This story has been asking for a ‘Big Scam Allardyce’ headline!”
The talking heads weighing in with their threepence worth are drying up a bit. We’ve had a rugby one of course. Maybe one from cycling up next?
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@NickAmes82 38% on Rotten Tomatoes (not to mention my own memory) confirms Entrapment was rubbish
— Dan Lucas (@DanLucas86) September 28, 2016
The people (and, indeed, my esteemed colleague Dan) have spoken. Fancy lasers only get you so far.
Another unsympathetic view, this time from Joel Woodard, who thinks Allardyce has not really grasped the error of his ways:
“Whether or not Sam Allardyce was giving advice on getting around third-party ownership bands or not, I think people seem to be forgetting that he also openly criticised his employers the FA whilst trying to negotiate a contract with somebody else – surely a sackable offence in any other job?
“In any case, it doesn’t seem to me that he truly accepts having done wrong, when saying he was trying to help out a friend or that “entrapment has won”. An awful character and I am glad he has been undone by his own arrogance and greed.”
Nicholas Hunter has an idea from left field: “I suggest Jeremy Corbyn as the next England manager. Clear aims, strong people management skills and just the man to unite the team. And besides, why should he be the only person on the Shadow Cabinet with only one job?”
Here, from Steve Hoare, is a view that diverges from the mean by the looks of things. Worth a read:
“Doesn’t sit comfortably?” I think you’re being too polite. I am absolutely bloody outraged (as Sam might say). I am outraged at The Telegraph for printing what amounts to a pissed up conversation about dodgy practices. I am outraged at the way they framed it and the sanctimonious ‘Big Sam for sale’ headline.
“I am outraged at your readers. Who are these weirdos who would turn down £400k for making a speech? He might be a dodgy geezer but his agent would not be doing his job properly if he didn’t present this opportunity to his client.
“I am outraged at The FA, which should have stood up for its employee. It should have backed him to the hilt and then ordered a full investigation into any events THAT HAVE ACTUALLY HAPPENED rather than sacking a man for having a conversation. He was sacked for having a conversation!! Really...I despair....why support England when the FA can’t even support its own manager? Utter eedjits the lot of ‘em.”
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If the FA want someone “whiter than white”, though, it might rule Blanc out*.
*It’s a joke about his name, I’m not implying anything.
All kinds of names flying around for possible new England manager at the moment. I’ve seen Mancini, Howe, Blanc, Wenger ... and what about Sean Dyche? He likes being English – and has done a pretty remarkable job getting Burnley up twice and making them competitive now.
Has Big Sam gone to Marbella or Dubai?
— Will Unwin (@Will_Unwin) September 28, 2016
I mean, that’s a key question too. Where does one lie low in this situation? Unless it’s a bluff and he’s headed off to the Lake District.
Michael Roughton has no sympathy for Big Sam:
“His claims of ‘entrapment’ ring rather hollow to me, given that he turned up to a meeting with his agent and his financial advisor. Clearly there was expectation of what would be discussed, and what might be on offer. You can’t entrap someone who has no interest in what is on offer.
“Then it was simply a case of his greed, combined with his seemingly natural arrogance and boorishness, which brought him low.”
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And now a great piece from Owen Gibson on the end of Allardyce’s dream job:
Something to think on: Britain is no paragon of sporting virtue.
I suspect it’s probably quite hard to get too much comment from football personages on all this – or those in work anyway. Most would probably take the Strachan route. To that end, Cockerill may be about all we can hope for in terms of hot takes from serving coaches; wonder how many other sports we can glean some opinions from as the day passes.
Did Allardyce have to go? And who should replace him? Vote! Vote! Vote!
“I think the cautionary tale is you should never try to achieve your dreams,” emails Brian Kitt. If this blog isn’t living proof, Brian, I don’t know what is.
Here’s a talking head who has talked – again to Sky. It’s the Leicester Tigers director of rugby, Richard Cockerill!
“He’s made a huge error of judgment in what he’s done, whatever the wrongs or right of that. In the public eye you have to make sure you behave appropriately. Rugby hasn’t got the money football has, and unfortunately money brings out the worst in most of us.
“He must be hugely disappointed. He’s put himself in that situation, he’s a very experienced manager and person and ultimately he should have known better.”
@NickAmes82 If nothing else, Entrapment launched a hundred laser beam-security spoofs. The one in Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back is a good un.
— Skirky (@doyoudoanywings) September 28, 2016
Yes, the laser beams! I’m starting to feel I’ve been harsh. And arrogant.
Richard Mead is another who agrees with the FA’s – the FA’s and Allardyce’s – decision:
“I think Allardyce deserved to go, if nothing else for his own stupidity. It’s not as if his name hasn’t come up (rightly or wrongly) before in this area so he should have known he’d need to whiter than white. Given the FA’s apparent strong public stance on the ongoings at FIFA and UEFA over the last year, he should have known that he’d be held to a higher standard. That may not be entirely fair, but the £3m a year for doing his dream job should help a bit? Plus, how did he allow himself to be surrounding by advisors who have fallen for a very simple and not too original set-up?”
Gordon Strachan has been asked about Allardyce and said “I don’t think anyone’s interested in my 15 seconds of answers if I do have an answer”.
I don’t know about that, Gordon. But this is nice and sensible.
Adam Timmins has emailed:
“A key point for me is that,regardless of the rights and wrongs of whether he should have been given the push, it’s hard to feel sorry for a guy who was sacked essentially for trying to make £400,000 on top of the £3 million a year he was already earning. Greed...”
What do you think? Would a WADA-type body in football do any good?
Damian Collins, acting chairman of the culture, media and sport select committee, is talking to Sky.
On the wider allegations in the Telegraph:
“I would much rather undercover reporters get these stories into the light of day.
“Why is it that people in football have had suspicions this sort of thing is going on all the time but it’s never been investigated?”
On Allardyce:
“It’s an incredibly serious matter for the England manager [to do that]. It was wrong and his position was untenable.”
On the role of intermediaries:
“What the FA needs to do now is launch an investigation into the registration and oversight of football intermediaries. If there’s a grey area it needs to be cleared up. I also question whether there should be an independent monitoring agency in football like WADA.”
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@NickAmes82 Entrapment wasn't an awful movie, it was entertaining & harmless. Stop being so arrogant. Can't you say 'that movie'?
— Joe Waddle (@CathDuu) September 28, 2016
The bit where they escaped from the Petronas tower was reasonably hair-raising, I suppose. But, mindful that this blog wouldn’t exist if somebody hadn’t spoken out of turn, I’ll shut up there.
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Mikey emails with what is probably the key point here:
“I am genuinely torn by this. I didn’t think he was the right man for the job but was this just boastful nonsense or was he actually offering to assist someone to bypass TPO rules. If it’s the latter, then it’s hard to see how he can be defended. But that said, there’s nothing I’ve seen written where Sam outlines how this is done. Regardless, he shouldn’t have put himself in that position.”
Nobody has mentioned Harry Redknapp for the job yet. Not in my earshot anyway. But there are plenty of hours left in the day.
It’s really hard for people not to lapse into yawnsome cliches when talking about the England job, isn’t it? Not that the issue isn’t a tricky or thorny one – it’s hard to know who the position would really appeal to at the moment.
Hinchcliffe has just suggested Glenn Hoddle would be worth looking at for the England job.
Angus Chisholm sends us his thoughts:
“I’m inclined to go along with this not really being a sackworthy offence – he should probably have been suspended pending an investigation. C Gardiner writes below that it’s unfair for anyone to be sacked for their private conversations – generally I go along with that and criticism of Wembley etc is all fair game. But the main point is what he said regarding Third Party Ownership rules – he said they can be got around (and Daniel Taylor points out in his piece that this is straightforwardly true, by buying out the third party owner as far as I can tell, which is gross but I digress) – but he decries the TPO rules as ‘ridiculous’ which, if he’s against regulating TPO altogether, is pretty damning. A sacking does seem a bit premature though.”
The sports minister Tracey Crouch has made a statement. It’s worth noting that she is talking about the wider allegations made by the Telegraph – whose exact substance is currently unclear – too:
“The integrity of sport is absolutely paramount and we have been clear that we expect the highest standards of governance and transparency from sports governing bodies, here in the UK and on the international stage. In this context, the recent allegations regarding English football are very concerning and we will be discussing the matter with the football authorities. All the evidence presented to them must be investigated fully and we stand ready to assist in any way we can.”
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I’m watching Sky Sports News. Andy Hinchcliffe has just been asked what he thinks and says “there was no way back for [Allardyce] and it was the right thing to do”.
Now this is really interesting from Ed Aarons on Mark Curtis, Allardyce’s agent:
On a side note, I can never quite hear the word “Entrapment” without thinking of that awful movie with Sean Connery and Catherine Zeta-Jones. I was about 16 when that came out and wrote a review of it while on work experience for the Ipswich Advertiser. The headline ran: “Catherine Zeta, you can’t Beta”.
As you were.
If you missed this yesterday, it’s Roy Greenslade on why the Telegraph’s sting on Allardyce was justified:
Sean Crossey also has his say:
“Taking away all consideration of whether legally (and god forbid in football, even morally) it was the right decision to sack Sam, and even forgetting about his less than winning personality, I still can’t help but feel sorry for a man who finally gets his dream job only to see it slip away in an instant.”
I mean, there is that. He was clearly made up at getting it. And some crashing indiscretion has lost it for him. Nice 100% record though.
And an email from C Gardiner:
“Big Idiot Sam, as we may now be legally obliged to call him. Has as Daniel Taylor said, been stupid and boastful, ie like Big Idiot Sam; but I’m pretty sure you could have replaced him with virtually anyone there and the chat would have gone very similar (they might not be as adept at impressions as him). The only reason I, and many others don’t have any sympathy for him is primarily down to the fact that he’s very unlikeable, if it was, for example Ranieri, we’d probably feel very sorry for him for losing his job for just saying what he thinks and what happens.”
Ben Atherton emails:
“Re the journalism sting. Doesn’t sit too well with me for the points you raise. Feels like a moral judgement the reporters/editors made to expose him and bring about this scandal. Mind you, lots of arch comments around about a) he’s been shooting his mouth off for years and b) was surrounded by the ‘wrong type of people.’ Wish we knew what the latter was all about but this all feels like someone decided it was time for him to get knocked down a peg or two.”
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Sam Allardyce has just spoken
Live outside his home in Bolton. The gist:
“On reflection it was a silly thing to do. I just wanted to help out someone I’ve known for 30 years and it was an error of judgment on my behalf. I’ve suffered the consequences. Entrapment has won on this occasion and I have to accept that.”
Allardyce further explained that he apologised to the FA and everyone else affected by the situation. He also said he is going abroad now, and wished England and their fans the very best. When asked if this was his last job in football, he answered: “Who knows?”
Did you see Allardyce there? What did you make of his words?
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Also – and I appreciate this wasn’t the gravest part of it – those comments about the England players and Wembley really weren’t that incendiary, were they, honestly?
My opinion, not that it is or should be remotely valuable to anyone, goes roughly in line with Danny Taylor’s: Allardyce was a fool but I’m not sure this was sackable stuff. Also feel quite uncomfortable at the perforation of the whole public/private boundary in situations like this – it’s one thing if this kind of journalism is setting out to stop something illegal and/or dangerous happening, perhaps, but setting out to trip somebody up for what appears to be no clear end just seems a bit cheap to me. Everyone has had a conversation before that, if recorded, might cause them some bother; that’s not to endorse anything about Allardyce’s actions or indeed his personality, but for me none of this sits very well. How about you?
You know what, this will tell you all you need to know. Allardyce says he will return, is “hurt and disappointed”, and attended the meetings in question to “do a friend [Scott McGarvey] a favour”:
Allardyce has been on to Sky Sports News – think he knew he was being recorded this time – and has told them he wants to return to football management. I’ll try and get some direct quotes over to you as soon as possible.
Good morning
Just your normal football morning, this. All quiet. Nowt to see here. Champions League was fun last night, eh?
If only. No, we find ourselves surveying one almighty storm and in the eye of it is Sam Allardyce, who is no longer England manager and has, it seems, been brought down spectacularly by his own indiscretion and bluster. There are suggestions that more revelations – concerning other individuals – from the same investigation are to come and this saga seems certain to run through to the end of the week and well beyond.
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So we’ll steer through the wreckage together for the next few hours, and you can take an active part too. Have the FA done the only thing they could, here? Should Allardyce have been sacked? And, errrr, if you like we can talk about who replaces him. In the first instance that, of course, is Gareth Southgate. Send your emails and tweets to the addresses above, and strap in …
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Southgate is uninspiring but the qualification group is easy enough they should be OK. You wouldn't want him in charge for the actual World Cup though.
Having him as a stopgap then going for Wenger next summer would seem the obvious best plan to me.