JOHN Swinney hit back at the Scottish Tory leader’s criticism of the “soaring benefits bill”, accusing Russell Findlay of not setting out where cuts would come from.
During a clash at FMQs, Findlay claimed the Scottish Government’s devolved Social Security Scotland is not effectively tackling potential fraud, arguing that it its approach is “naive and negligent”.
Swinney also took a pop at MSPs on the Labour and Tory benches for “posturing” over the housing crisis. Findlay said ministers had not set out a “detailed strategy” within its budget to pay for benefits, claiming that there is a £2 billion black hole approaching.
Swinney pointed out that the Scottish Government is required to balance their budget annually, and said Findlay was asking “are we prepared to follow the benefit policies of the United Kingdom”.
In Westminster, Prime Minister Keir Starmer is seeking to reform the welfare system. His attempts were watered down in an attempt to stop a backbench rebellion, but those claiming disability payments in future will be subject to a stricter eligibility.
Findlay told the Holyrood Chamber that while benefits are an “essential safety net” it “has to be affordable”.
“The SNP approves an agency which takes claimants at face value for reviewing benefit claims,” he said.
“Claimants only have to tick a box in this form saying, my needs are the same. That's it. “The Auditor General also says there is no system to investigate fraud, which is not only inevitable, but it's happening right now.
“He says that, I'm quoting the Auditor General here, there is no timescale for when Social Security Scotland can consider incorrect things due to client error or fraud.”
Findlay asked when checks against fraud would be introduced. Swinney said that if there are any “errors” made or evidence of fraud, then Social Security Scotland “already addressed them”.
He added: “Those mechanisms are there to make sure that the public purse is protected, but also to make sure that support reaches those who need that support.
“And one of the undertones of Mr Findlay's question here, which he never gets round to answering, is whose benefits does he want to take away?
“Because we hear all of this rhetoric, but when it comes down to the hard, specific realities of whose benefits are getting withdrawn, Mr Findlay has got no answers.”
Findlay insisted there are “no systems in place to prevent fraud” and that Social Security Scotland does not have a “reliable” figure for the amount lost to fraud. He argued this was “naive and negligent”, adding that the benefits bill is “unsustainable”.
“John Swinney has no plan to pay for it, a £2bn black hole made by the SNP,” he added, asking how much the Government would raise taxes to pay for the shortfall.
Swinney responded that the Budget will address those issues but the Tories should come to those discussions with “some proposals”.
“It's not good enough to come here and talk about the soaring benefits bill and they not say whose benefits are going to be taken away," he said.
“And what the Conservatives, I'm certain will want to do, is exactly what their London equivalents did, pursue and harass vulnerable people in our society, and this Government will not go down that road.”
Swinney and Scottish Labour leader Anas Sarwar clashed over contracts awarded to Scottish firms after a furlough scheme was set up for bus firm Alexander Dennis.
Sarwar said: “We need a more coherent industrial strategy where we build our vital infrastructure here in Scotland.
“That means busses built in Scotland so Scottish companies can thrive, and that means ferries built in Scotland so that Scottish shipyards can thrive.
“But under the SNP, we've had busses for Scotland built in China, while Scotland's bus companies struggle, and ferries built in Turkey and Poland, while Scotland's shipyards go without.”
Swinney told Sarwar to “check up on his history” and that when Labour were in power in Scotland, they signed contracts to build ferries in Poland and other European countries.
“If people want to know what a Labour government might be like, they only need to look at the shambles that were in here before us and the shambles that's in place in the United Kingdom at the present moment,” the First Minister said.
