With the flat calm Firth of Forth glistening in the low autumn sun and seagulls circling silently in the piercing blue sky overhead, there was really no need for Dave McPherson to explain why he had moved through to Dunbar in East Lothian when we chatted on Tuesday evening.
Stunning scenery. Clean air. A tranquil ambiance. Great golf courses as far as the eye can see. What is not to love?
But McPherson, the former Rangers, Hearts and Scotland defender who became a director of the Scottish Football Supporters Association (SFSA) last week, could still not resist having an impish dig at his East Coast neighbours as we spoke.
“I come from Pollok,” he said with his tongue lodged firmly in his cheek. “I wanted to bring a sense of humour to the Edinburgh area.” You can take the boy out of Glasgow.
Can Big Slim, as he was affectionately known during a long and distinguished playing career that saw him lift every major domestic honour in the land many times over and represent his country at the World Cup and European Championship finals, help to lighten the mood around Scottish football in his new role? He certainly intends to try.
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The national team may have been involved at Euro 2020 and Euro 2024 and might have made an encouraging start to their World Cup ’26 qualifying campaign earlier this month.
There are, though, widespread concerns about the dwindling number of homegrown professionals who are plying their trade in the William Hill Premiership as well as about the lack of Club Academy Scotland kids who are forcing their way into first teams and remaining there. McPherson shares them.
The 61-year-old will primarily focus on the grassroots game in his work with the SFSA. He already has numerous ideas about why the current pro-youth system is failing and myriad suggestions about what can be done to improve the efficiency of the production line.
“It's something I would really like to look at in depth,” he said. “Only a very small percentage of academy kids actually make it. Between 95 to 98 per cent don’t make the grade. Why is that happening? Why are they not getting opportunities?
“A lot of them fall out of love with football and don't play anymore. So that's a worrying scenario for me. You want young kids, both boys and girls, to have a healthy interest in sport, not just football.
“If you get let go at 16 or 17 it is mentally devastating. It is a massive, massive blow to their ego, to their confidence levels. They've been part of an academy from a very young age and have been told they are special. They're going to believe that they're going to be good enough. But the stats don't lie. Most don’t make it. We are in danger of losing generations, multiple generations, of decent players to the game.
“There are hardly any Scottish players involved in the Premiership. The only European player that played with me when I started out with Rangers was Robert Prytz from Sweden. Other than John McClelland, who was from Northern Ireland, the team was made up of Scots. But we did okay.
“We had a talent pool in Scotland in the past that we could be proud of. We have to try to get back to that. I am certain we can generate good talent again, we just need to give kids an opportunity. They’re not getting that opportunity just now. So I would like to have a look at why that is.”
McPherson cut his teeth in the game with Pollok United – where his future Rangers team mate Billy Davies was a contemporary – as a teenager. He is keen to see more promising lads remaining with their local sides than is currently the case and fewer gifted prospects moving to professional teams at an early age. He has no fears about the impact that will have on their development.
“There's a lot of good youth clubs out there, a lot of boys clubs which are really well run,” he said. “So rather than have a young kid who is based in, say, Dunbar drive all the way through to an academy in Glasgow, why not let them stay at home? They can play with their friends and go to school in the morning without being worried about being tired from all of the travelling they're doing.
“Why not let boys’ clubs hold on to their players? If they're good enough they'll make it anyway. It didn't harm me back in the day. It didn't harm a lot of my peers. I actually benefitted from the fact that I played for Pollok United up until I was 16.
“I disagree with this view that if you’re not in the pro-youth set-up when you’re seven that you won’t make it in the game. If that is the case now then it would have been the case back in 1980 when I joined Rangers at the age of 16. If you've got the talent then you're going to come through no matter what.”
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McPherson is far from despondent. Quite the opposite in fact. He is optimistic the Cooperation System which the SFA launched in conjunction with SPFL clubs back in June will make a dramatic difference in the not-too-distant future.
Leading Premiership clubs have been reluctant to allow their best kids to go out on loan and gain invaluable first team experience in the past because they need them to satisfy homegrown player quotas in UEFA competitions or provide injury cover. So they stagnate as a result.
But the groundbreaking new initiative will allow boys aged between 16 and 21 who are eligible to represent Scotland move freely between their parent club and lower league clubs during the course of a campaign.
“Kids need game time at senior level,” said McPherson. “If you're still playing in an academy team at 17 then you're never going to make it. You have to play competitive football against men because you're going to learn from experienced players, from better players around about you.
“The Cooperation System makes sense on a lot of different levels. I was lucky when I was a young player. I came through the reserve system at Ibrox. I was playing competitive matches against Celtic when I was 17. That's probably too steep a learning curve, but it worked for me.
“The first forward I played against in a Celtic game was Johnny Doyle. He was a character, was just Celtic daft. The first thing I did was kick him. He turned around and said to me, ‘What are you doing kicking me big man?’ I said, ‘You play for Celtic, I play for Rangers, I've been told to kick you’. It was just a bit of banter.
“I had a good deal of respect for him because he was a Celtic winger. I had to prove myself at that age, had to show that I'm good enough to play in that company. At the end of the game, the first thing he did was come over to me shake my hand and say, ‘Well done big man, you had a good game’.
“I was brought up as a Rangers fan watching Rangers play against these guys in the first team. You knew exactly that they were really competitive, knew they were top quality players. Johnny was one out of a few I came up against as a kid.
“I remember playing against Danny McGrain. I had so much respect for him as a player even though I was a Rangers fan. He was an absolutely outstanding footballer and he was the captain for Celtic. All of a sudden, I was on the same pitch as him.
“Mixing in that kind of company made a massive difference to me. You grow up really quickly. If I'd carried on playing against kids of my own age I would have gone backwards. I think that's what happens with a lot of players now. Nowadays, a kid of 17 will be playing in a youth game against another 17-year-old.”
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It is fair to say that the SFA and SPFL have not always welcomed the existence of the SFSA since the organisation was founded in 2015. SFA chief executive Ian Maxwell dismissed them as a vehicle for “two individuals” when he spoke to MSPs at Holyrood in the December of 2023.
They have since engaged with certain members of the group on major issues affecting the national game. But when several SFSA directors broke away and formed the Scottish Football Union – who will, a media release stated, retain a place on the Scottish government roundtable and continue to “work closely” with the governing bodies – earlier this month it suggested they may not be actively involved going forward.
McPherson, who has worked extensively with them on a variety of projects in the past, is keen to build relationships and foster friendships in his new position. “A lot of these institutions are a little closed to outside thinking,” he said. “But I don't want to be critical of anybody because I know how difficult life is in modern day society, never mind football. Hopefully I can open a few doors and have an input. I'd like to think there's a lot I can offer.”
McPherson is not, by his own admission, the greatest centre half Scotland ever produced. But, boy, did he make the most of the not inconsiderable talent he had. He contributed greatly to every team he was ever a member of and is fondly remembered by their supporters to this day. He is a Hall of Fame member at both Hearts and Rangers.
He still follows the fortunes of both clubs closely and has been fascinated by goings on at Tynecastle and Ibrox this term. Does he think the good times will continue to roll in Gorgie? What is his take on events in Govan in recent weeks?
He felt the fallout that Russell Martin and Nico Raskin had last month showed that all is not well behind the scenes at the Glasgow giants. He has also been less than impressed with the quality of a few of the summer recruits.
“I'm not going to criticise the Rangers manager because he's got such a tough job to do,” he said. “He has come in and tried to build a team in a short space of time. But he has big matches to play, like the European qualifiers, like the Celtic match. That has made it difficult for him to put his stamp on things.
“But I certainly don’t think they’re in a good place at the moment. I sense there's something not right in the background in terms of squad unity. I also feel there are players there who maybe don't deserve to wear the light blue jersey.”
McPherson helped Hearts to beat Rangers in the Scottish Cup final at Hampden in 1998. Does he think Derek McInnes can emulate that sort of success in the capital with the backing of Brighton benefactor Tony Bloom? He would like to think so.
“In my first season at Hearts we finished above Rangers in the league,” he said. “Everybody was so excited by the fact there was somebody else up their challenging. So I think it's going to be a great season for the fans whatever happens.
“For me, Derek McInnes was a great appointment as manager. He knows the Scottish game inside out and will get the best out of the team. They've recruited some exciting players.
“Tynecastle is such an enclosed atmosphere. When the Hearts fans get behind the team, when they are well organised and when they have got one or two players who can score goals, they're a very hard team to beat. That's where Hearts are at the moment. I hope it continues.”
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McPherson, who played for Scotland against Costa Rica, Sweden and Brazil at Italia ’90 and against the Netherlands, Germany and CIS at Euro ’92, would love to see the national team maintain their form when they take on Greece and Belarus at Hampden in their World Cup qualifiers next month.
Clinching a place at Italia ’90 was one of the many highlights of McPherson’s career. Andy Roxburgh’s side went into their final Group 5 match against Norway at Hampden needing a point. An Ally McCoist goal a minute before half-time ensured they got it. The home supporters who were lucky enough to be in the 63,987-strong crowd have never forgotten the occasion.
Being able to call on Jim Leighton, Maurice Malpas, Roy Aitken, Alex McLeish, Willie Miller, Mo Johnston, Paul McStay, Jim Bett, Davie Cooper, Murdo MacLeod and Brian McClair as well as McCoist and McPherson helped the hosts’ cause no end.
“We were all Scots who had come through the Scottish system,” said McPherson. “We need to try and get back to that. Football has changed since then. Are you going to get that many coming through again? I doubt it. But we should certainly be getting more through than we are just now.
“Only eight teams qualified for Euro ‘92. The Scotland team I was a member of was one of them and we finished fifth. So, basically, we were fifth best team in Europe. Is that going to happen again this year, next year or in 10 years the way things are going? There’s no way. Something has to change.
“I would love to see us be a top 10 side in Europe. That should be a target that we should all want to achieve. We've proved in the past we have a talent pool there. I think we just need to give kids an opportunity to prove themselves.”
