The Asio chief has insisted security agencies “don’t radicalise people” but admitted “dealing with minors is incredibly difficult” after court findings criticising an undercover operation targeting a 13-year-old child with autism.
Guardian Australia revealed last month that the boy, known by the pseudonym Thomas Carrick, was granted a permanent stay on terror-related charges last October, after a magistrate found police “fed his fixation” with Islamic State during the operation and “doomed” his efforts at rehabilitation.
The Australian federal police deputy commissioner, Ian McCartney, told a parliamentary committee that a “decision was made jointly between the AFP, Asio and Victoria police that the threat – the real threat – had escalated to such a level that we had to take action”.
McCartney authorised a major controlled operation into the boy, which eventually resulted in his arrest soon after his 14th birthday, in October 2021 – six months after his parents had approached Victoria police for help dealing with his fixation.
The head of domestic intelligence agency Asio, Mike Burgess, said he would not “go into great details on this case” during an interview with Guardian Australia’s Australian Politics podcast.
But when asked to explain Asio’s role in signing off on the joint operation and whether it had done any soul-searching over the matter, Burgess said the AFP was conducting a review.
“We are a member of the joint counterterrorism teams in states and territories and therefore we are a member of the joint counterterrorism team in Victoria – and when a member of that group takes action, we’re backing that and we’re part of that process,” Burgess said.
“Of course, the police do their job, we do our job. But I stand with them on the work that they’ve done.”
In the decision, magistrate Lesley Fleming said the prospect of diverting and rehabilitating Thomas was destined to fail once the operative started communicating with him online and “fed his fixation, providing him with a new terminology, new boundaries and an outlet for him to express, what was in part, his fantasy world”.
“The community would not expect law enforcement officers to encourage a 13-14-year-old child towards racial hatred, distrust of police and violent extremism, encouraging the child’s fixation on Isis,” Fleming said in granting the permanent stay.
Burgess said he was not making “a comment on the judiciary” but indicated that “the information I have before me” may be different.
Speaking generally about the radicalisation of children, Burgess said: “When Asio and the Australian federal police come along, we’re at the wrong end of the scale.
“I’d stress that if we’re coming up to someone who is suspected of being radicalised or we know is radicalised, we’re at the wrong end of the scale – the radicalisation of minors is a broader society problem that we must address.
“Occasionally, sadly, there are minors that have actually planned acts of terrorism – and that has to be dealt with by us and the police.”
Burgess said dealing with minors was “incredibly difficult” and in such investigations “we have a whole range of extra policies, procedures and approval processes we must go through to consider the rights of the child”.
“We do not radicalise people. We investigate threats to security,” he said.
“And we will use more intrusive powers if we see and have the ability to justify those more intrusive powers to understand the nature of the threat, to either help it be mitigated or reduced or dealt with under law.”
The boy’s lawyers have previously said “the entire saga” has had an enormous impact on the child and his family. Thomas was charged with two offences in October 2021 but was granted a permanent stay two years later.
McCartney, of the AFP, told the parliamentary joint committee on law enforcement he did not take the decision to approve the controlled operation “lightly”. He cited “a set of exceptional circumstances” but acknowledged it was “a very challenging and complex matter”.
