“Since the advent of the League of Ireland in 1921, 10 sides bearing the city name of Cork have appeared in the League’s top two divisions,” writes Phil Farrell. “They are Cork FC (1930-38), Cork Bohemians (1932-34), Cork City I (1938-40), Cork United I (1940-48), Cork Athletic (1948-57), Cork Celtic (1952-79), Cork Hibernians (1957-77), Cork Alberts (1977-79), Cork United II (1978-82), and Cork City II (1984-present). While some of these clubs are merely rebrandings or phoenix clubs emanating from others, nonetheless these 10 different club names have featured on flags, scarves and shirt badges that have graced the league. Has any city lent its name to so many different top-flight clubs?”
Mick McMenemie provides an exhaustive answer to this one. So we’ll put our feet up and listen in. “Bit of a complicated one but I believe Tallinn can trump Cork for top-flight teams. First of all, 11 of these clubs have played in the Meistriliiga: FC Lantana Tallinn, FC Infonet Tallinn, FC Flora Tallinn, JK Dunamo Tallinn, FC Norma Tallinn, FC Nikol Tallinn, FC Levadia Tallin, JK Tallinna Sadam, JK Tallinna Kalev, KSK Vigri Tallinn, FC TVMK (the ‘T’ stands for Tallinna).
“But Vigri used to play under the name Tevalte Tallin and TVMK used to be known, amongst other things, as TVMV (the ‘T’ still stood for Tallinna). If name changes count that brings it to 13. Just to complicate things further FC Ajax Lasnamae played as F.C.A Estel Tallinn for a couple of years (but in the Second Division). Levadia Tallinn used to be based in Maardu and their reserve side based in Tallinn. After they merged with Tallinna Sadam they moved from Maardu to Tallinn and the reserves switched. So Levadia Tallin U-21 have three years’ experience as a top-flight side but, again, not when they were called Levadia Tallinn U-21. I don’t think they count mind you.
“And that’s just looking at the Meistriliiga. Here’s where it gets even more argumentative. Between 1921-44 there was an Estonian championship. Sometimes, in the early years, it was played as a knockout tournament but the Tallin teams from that era were: JS Estonia Tallinn, Tallinna JK, SK Tallinna Sport (who also played as VS Sport Tallinn, Kalevipoeg Tallinn, Sirius Tallinn, Voitleja Tallinn, Meteor Tallinn Merkur Tallinn, ESS Kalev Tallinn (JK Tallinna Kalev are a continuation of the same club), UENUTO (the T stands for Tallinna), NMKUTO (the T stands for Tallinna) Edu Tallin, Tallina VVS Puhkekodu, Tekas Tallin, Ariteenijad Tallinn, Vitjas Tallin SK Estika Tallinn, VVS Puhkekodu Tallinn, SU Esta Tallinn.
“That’s 19 clubs so between 30 and 34 if we’re counting the same club with name changes. There were a few ‘unofficial’ Estonian champions during the war under German or Soviet occupation and there’s an argument if they count. If they do then you can add: Tallinna Lokomotiv, Tallinna Spartak, Tallinna Spordiklubi.
“So now the total is between 30 and 37. To really screw things up, during Estonia’s time as a Soviet territory they had the Estonian SSR Football League which wasn’t the top flight in the Soviet Union but was the top flight in Estonia. Does that count? If so, then these 14 clubs can be added to the list: Baltic Fleet Tallinn, Officers’ Club of Tallinn, Tallinna Esto, Tallinna Punane Koit, EAT Tallinn, Tallinna JK Tempo, Tallinna Tekstiil, Tallinna Start, Tallinna JK Dvigatel, Tallinna Autobussipark, TPI Tallinn, Tallinna Elektrotehnika, Tallinna FC Zvezda, Tallinna KK Majak.
“But add to that Tallina Dunamo, Lovid-Flora Tallin and Eesti Toostus/Flora Tallin. They have had different names at the time but are considered the same clubs as JK Dunamo Tallin and Flora Tallin plus two reserve sides Tallina Dunamo II and Tallinna Kalev II played in the Estonian SSR. So, teams with the word Tallinn in their name in the Estonian top flight? Between 30 and 56. I think?” Forget stag-dos, Tallinn is famous for something else now.
Teams chock-full of players with the same first name (part two)
Last week we had to plunge into the history books to find examples of international teams with four or more players with the same first name. But there were some good examples from club teams that we missed. Here’s Mattias Olsson with a lovely tale from Sweden.
“The 1982 IFK Gothenburg team that won the Uefa Cup featured four players named Glenn. A not too common name in Sweden.
“The players were Glenn Hysén, Glenn Strömberg, Glenn Holm and Glenn Schiller and to this day the chant ‘Alla heter Glenn i Göteborg’ (Everyone’s called Glenn in Gothenburg) is heard on the stands at every IFK game. A person from Gothenburg can often simply be referred to as ‘a Glenn’, there is a chain of sport pubs in Gothenburg called Glenn’s and the local brewery Ocean has an ale called Glenn No5. It´s fair to say that the four Glenns have left a mark on the city. The 1994-95 IFK team that reached the quarter-finals of the Champions League featured four players called Stefan. Rehn, Landberg, Lindqvist and Pettersson. But being a far more common name than Glenn, the Stefans don’t have their own songs or lines of merchandise.”
Paul Bestall takes us back top north London in the 1980s. “Terry Venables was seemingly obsessed with signing players called Paul during his stint as Spurs manager, which led to there being four Pauls in the squad for the first game of the 88-89 season at Newcastle with Walsh, Gascoigne and Allen all starting and Moran on the bench. In the sixth game, Spurs started the game with four Pauls (Allen, Stewart, Gascoigne and Walsh). During this period we also tried to sign Paul McGrath and Paul Bracewell, so clearly El Tel had a thing for Pauls. Has anyone asked him why?” Barry Bridger emailed in to say he believed five Pauls turned out for Spurs in that period, with Gascoigne, Stewart, Allen, Walsh, and Moran ion the pitch at the same time. Readers?
Any more for any more? Let us know by emailing knowledge@theguardian.com or tweeting @TheKnowledge_GU.
Long songs
“While belting out the Liverpool song Poor Scouser Tommy the other day it occurred to me that it is really long – over 250 words, at least. Are there any other original fan songs (not just songs written by bands and sung verbatim by supporters) that are longer?” wonders George Jones.
Not only has Andrew Pechey typed out Stockport County’s The Scarf My Father Wore for your viewing pleasure, but he’s calculated it is 285 words long, although he admits “it’s rare that the full song gets an airing from the Cheadle End.”
We are everything in football, that people say is sad and wrong. But when we go to Edgeley Park, we will sing our County songs. We’ll raise our voice in chorus, as we did in times before. And at Edgeley Park our greatest pride, is the scarf my father wore.
It’s forever being beautiful, and the colour’s white and blue. I wore it proudly round my neck, at Chesterfield & Crewe. My father was a County fan, like me grandfather before. And at Edgeley Park I love to wear, the scarf me father wore.
We will always follow County, to all games far and near. And at Edgeley Park we’ll sing those songs, that me father loved to hear. We will raise our pints in memory, of the games he loved to see. And at Edgeley Park, I’ll wear the scarf, that me father left to me.
It’s forever being beautiful, and the colour’s white and blue. I wore it proudly round my neck, at Chesterfield & Crewe. My father was a County fan, like me grandfather before. And at Edgeley Park I love to wear, the scarf me father wore.
It’s passed down the generations, of my family. Oh my grandad gave it to my dad, and me dad gave it to me. And when my time is over, and life’s long race is run, I’ll take the scarf from ‘round my neck, and I’ll pass it to my son!!!
It’s forever being beautiful, and the colour’s white and blue. I wore it proudly round my neck, at Chesterfield & Crewe. My father was a County fan, like me grandfather before. And at Edgeley Park I love to wear, the scarf me father wore.
Knowledge archive
“I seem to remember some years back that Darren Anderton left a game, not as a case of injury, but because he lost one of his contact lenses,” wrote Chris Stanley in 2009. “Have any other players suffered a similar fate?”
There are indeed a few such examples, Chris. Perhaps the most famous was during the World Cup qualifier between Wales and Scotland in 1985, the match which ended with the death of Jock Stein.
As Wales mounted a series of attacks Jim Leighton, the Scotland goalkeeper, flapped at crosses, dropped shots and looked generally confused. His team-mates were convinced he was concussed but in fact he wore contact lenses – a fact he had kept to himself for seven years – and one of them had been lost in the Ninian Park mud. He confessed the truth to Stein at half-time and was promptly replaced by Alan Rough.
Paul Caddy also told us that play was held up for a few minutes in a game between Barnsley and Everton in 1998 when the Toffees keeper Thomas Myhre lost one of his lenses. Myhre eventually replaced them and went on to have an excellent game.
Can you help?
“This season in Turkish Super League has had no matches that ended 0-0 until the ninth week when two games finished goalless. Can any league top that?” asks Onder Susam.
“My dad – a lifelong England fan who has never fully recovered from the 1970 quarterfinal – and I were discussing the pros and cons of England at Wembley when he informed me that the days of England matches at club grounds effectively ended in November 1958 with the match v Wales at Villa Park when a player from each side then motored to London afterwards to play for Arsenal v Juventus that evening” – Stephen Crisp.
“Between the seemingly annual Southampton sales and the general moving around of players, by my count there are at least 19 ex-Southampton players who made at least 10 appearances for other clubs last season in the Premier League (list below). Despite the number of high-profile departures we’ve had I suspect this isn’t even close to the most ex-players playing regularly in the Premier League, but which club does hold the record (and how many)?” asks Christopher Fish. And here’s his former Saints list: Nathaniel Clyne, Jason Puncheon, Victor Wanyama, Artur Boruc, Jose Fonte, Adam Lallana, Toby Alderweireld, Jack Cork, Dejan Lovren, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Theo Walcott, Peter Crouch, Sadio Mane, Calum Chambers, Gaston Ramirez, Andrew Surman, Maarten Stekelenburg, Morgan Schneiderlin, Luke Shaw.
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