Marcus Rashford made his debut for the Manchester United senior team on 25 February in the Europa League and made his debut for England on 27 May. Is this the shortest gap between a senior debut and an international debut?” wonders John McDougall.
His rise has been startlingly quick but, no, there are a couple of others to have enjoyed shorter gaps.
Marcel Bremer points out that “Norman Whiteside debuted for Manchester United on 24 April 1982 and debuted for Northern Ireland on 17 June 1982 (during the 1982 World Cup). So he beats Rashford.” Marcel also points us in the direction of Gareth Bale, who made his Southampton debut on 17 April 2006 and played his first Wales game on 27 May.
Indeed, several players have become internationals before appearing for their club’s first team.
“Even though that is a short gap for an England international, a much more remarkable statistic is courtesy of Northern Ireland’s own Johnny Gorman, who made his international debut on 26 May 2010, aged 17 years and 222 days,” writes Matt Griffith. “This was nearly two years before he made is senior debut on 24 March 2012 for his – and my – club side Wolverhampton Wanderers.
“He played nine senior international matches in total before his senior debut for any club, which turned out to be his one and only appearance for Wolves. Johnny was released from Wolves in the summer of 2013, having joined the club in 2009 (meaning his four years at Wolves coincided with all nine of his senior international caps and one and only senior Wolves appearance, which was also his only Premier league appearance). Having been released Johnny quickly dropped down the leagues and now plays non-league football with both international and professional club football an unlikely prospect in the near future.”
Another Wolves player, Ryan Green, repeated the same for Wales in June 98, five months before his first-team debut for his club. As Paul Haynes notes: “Ryan Giggs, whose record as youngest welsh international Green broke with his debut, described his selection as a typical Bobby Gould stunt.”
Ciaran Hannigan-Purcell adds: “Lazio midfielder Chris Ikonomidis actually made his debut for Australia before making a senior appearance in club football. First capped in a friendly against Macedonia in March 2015, he later made his first competitive cap against Bangladesh in September. In December that year, he finally debuted for Lazio, playing in the Europa League – but his first taste of league action would have to wait for January 2016, after being loaned out to Serie B Salernitana. Given that he’s also eligible for Greece, perhaps it’s no surprise how quickly he was brought into the national fold.”
Wandering from Wembley
“Who has won the most England caps without having played at either Wembley Stadium?” mused joestewwood last week.
Several of you answered Bob Crompton, who played 41 times for England up to 1914, before Wembley was opened. His record, as pointed out by Jason Crawford, was not surpassed until 1952 by Billy Wright.
Clayton Freeman provides some important context about the early years at the national stadium: “Incidentally, England used Wembley infrequently during the early years. For example, England only played at Wembley five times during the 1930s and twice in the 1940s, in each case a match against Scotland (1930, 1932, 1934, 1936, 1938, 1947, 1949). Most other matches were played away or at scattered venues across the country, from Bramall Lane to Molineux to Roker Park. It wasn’t until 1951 that Wembley became the primary location for England’s home contests.”
In recent times, Danny Mills won 19 caps without playing at Wembley, as mentioned by Robert Lawshaw and Stuart Sale. Robert adds that Mills “did play there with Charlton in the 1998 Championship play-off finals. Looking at players from that time who never appeared at Wembley in any context, I can’t find any from the group of players with more than one cap – I thought I had Zat Knight though it seems he played there in a 2010 FA Cup semi-final with Bolton.” Stuart provides some other Wembley avoiders, too, from the period when the stadium was being rebuilt: Danny Murphy (nine caps), Kieron Richardson (eight caps), Chris Powell, James Beattie and Luke Young (all five).
3.15pm kick-offs
“Many years ago, I found an old Leyton Orient poster advertising upcoming games. A reserves’ match against Birmingham City Res and a Division Two match v Derby County,” notes Trevor Howard. “What has always puzzled me is that both kick-offs are 3.15pm. A friend once gave a very plausible reason for this, something to do with post-war Britain, but I can’t for the life of me remember what it was. Any ideas?”
The answer to this one comes from manufacturing industries, where Saturday was a half day and typically workers would clock off at 2pm. As Josh Mandel writes: “Knocking-off time was normally 2pm, leaving time for a quick pie and pint before heading for the stadium. Now, of course, Britain has no manufacturing industries, so the service-industry-employed fans can make a 3pm Saturday afternoon kick-off. Unless the match has been rescheduled to a Sunday kick-off for the benefit of Sky Sports, of course. O tempora! O mores!”
Andrew Brown swaps the pie and pint for a bath but adds more detail to shift times at steelworks: “Don’t know if it was the case for Orient but Scunthorpe United always used to kick-off at 3.15pm and 7.15pm for night games. The reason was simple: the steelworks (remember them?) ran three shifts: 6am-2pm; 2pm-10pm and nights 10pm-6am. The 3.15pm kick off let the day shift blokes get home, have a bath and get to the game; likewise, the early 7.15pm kick off let the night shift go to the game before work.”
Meanwhile, Dermot Wickham says that while the manufacturing industry led to later kick-offs in the north, there was also another reason down south involving booze. “Several clubs regularly kicked off at 3.15pm for years. These were generally in the north and related to when shifts finished in some of the local pits factories. However, Brentford and some others used to kick off at 3.15pm down to a theory that as the local pubs shut at 3pm, this would encourage drinkers to go the game. The fact that Griffin Park has a pub at each corner of the ground may have had something to do with it.”
That is backed up by Fraser Warburton, who adds: “I always understood that it had to do with pub opening hours, which in the 1960s involved a strictly applied three o’clock afternoon closing time, with 10 minutes allowed for drinking-up. It is a recognised phenomenon that some strange magnetism causes time spent in a pub to be in direct proportion to reluctance to leave it. Chester’s old Sealand Road ground was a stiffish 15 minute walk from the cluster of pubs in the city centre, and the general understanding was that a caring board, with due consideration for the comforts of its potential spectators, had allowed some leeway for the realisation to strike home that upon the cry of ‘Time, gentlemen, please’ there was no prospect of refreshment for a thirsty two and a half hours.”
Sibling rivalry
“With the two Xhaka bothers potentially facing each other in the European Championship group stage this summer, can anyone recall two brothers doing so in a major tournament before?” asks Chris Rudge.
Yes, Chris. At the World Cup two years ago the Boateng brothers faced off when Germany took on Ghana in the group stage. They both started the 2-2 draw and were both hooked in a game that also saw the Ayew brothers, Jordan and André, playing for the African side.
Speaking of which, Ben Crome writes: “Just noticed that André and Jordan Ayew were both top scorers for different clubs in the Premier League last season. Is that the first time that two brothers have top scored for different clubs in the same league over the course of one season?”
Knowledge archive
“I was recently told that Emlyn Hughes has two children, a son by the name of Emlyn and a daughter Emma Lynn. Are you able to confirm this?” asks Phil Preston.
Incredibly, this apocryphal-sounding story is absolutely true. Emlyn Hughes’ two children are called Emma Lynn and Emlyn.
Daniel Tunnards remembers that Emlyn junior, “was in the same class as my sister at Greenhill school, Sheffield, for one year around 1981-82.”
Meanwhile, David Coombes says: “My wife went to school with Emma Lynn Hughes (Silverdale secondary in Sheffield) and she confirms that her brother is indeed called Emlyn.”
The story is backed up by Greenhill school secretary Joan Baker, who says that both Emma Lynn and Emlyn Hughes attended the school in the early 80s.
• For thousands more questions and answers take a trip through the Knowledge archive.
Can you help?
“I get really annoyed at referees blowing for a foul too early and forgetting to book someone long after playing an advantage,” writes Paul Mullan. “After seeing Bruno Alves getting sent off with Harry Kane breaking away during England v Portugal, what is the longest a referee has played on before giving a red card following a foul? According to Fifa ‘the atmosphere of a match’ may be considered.”
“While trawling through the Euro 2016 squads,” Sam Carney emails: “I came across Ukraine’s Bohdan Butko. Despite being a Shakhtar Donetsk player since 2008, Butko is yet to play for them, having spent the past eight seasons on loan to various clubs in Ukraine and Russia. Surely this is some sort of record?”
“Has a player ever switched teams during a flight?” tweets La Media Inglesa. “If Jamie Vardy had boarded as a Fox and landed as a Gunner?”
“Roberto Di Matteo being named as Aston Villa manager means there are now two Champions League-winning managers in the Championship (Rafa Benítez being the other),” observes Steve McLay. “That’s got to be a first for any second tier. Or is it?”
And this question was indirectly tweeted to us by a number of people: “Roberto Di Matteo scored the winner against Villa in the 2000 FA Cup final,” tweets Jamie Cutteridge. “Are there many bigger goals scored by someone who later managed that opponent?”
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