It's almost two years since Britain left the European Union, and a year since the transition agreement ended, yet feelings about it are still running high for many.
So “Was Brexit worth it?” We put that question to 10 people and two moderators for Europe Talks as they sat on a moving artwork.
Arist Jenny Brockman’s Seat #12 requires co-operation to keep everyone balanced.
Thomas Kielinger, 81, is explaining why he thinks many Europeans regret Brexit.
“It’s about the UK’s soft power,” says the Polish-born German who lives in London.
“The language, pop culture, music, history, Shakespeare. That’s the predominant reason why Germans are so unhappy about Brexit, because they love Britain sometimes more than Brexiteers love Britain.”
To join, see mirror.co.uk/europetalks
Entrepreneur and Brexiteer Saadia Baber, 45, of High Wycombe, Bucks, disagrees. “Just because I’m not in the EU, I am still part of Europe. We should be proud of the common human values we have.”
The chat, hosted by the Goethe Institut in London, was screened to thousands of people across 30 countries. We discussed topics such as homelessness, EU migrants, sovereignty, empty shelves, flag-waving, imperialism and busking. Fortunately, nobody stormed off the seat and sent us all flying. And towards the end, even vehemently opposed Brexiteers and Remainers found a little common ground.
“A lot of us have described ourselves as patriotic and loving our country,” said 22-year-old Labour councillor Jon-Conor Lyons, from Manchester.
“I certainly want to believe in our country and I love Britain. I identify as a Manc, a Briton and a European.”
View the full 12-minute video of the conversation on Vimeo
Gosia Cabaj said the UK leaving the EU might have benefited Europe in one way, as it convinced many of her fellow Poles to stay in. Thomas said: “Now you are out of the EU, you only have yourself to blame if things don’t succeed.”
Ada Pratt, a retired nursing sister from Rochdale who voted Leave, concluded with: “I think in general, everyone should stop blaming everybody else and talk to one another.”
Ada, Jon-Conor, Saadia and Gosia were joined on Seat #12 by academic Ananya Jahanara Kabir, 42, Cambridge student Jovan Nepaul, 25, hotel worker Gisella Sobarasua, 59, from Nottingham, The New European journalist John Kampfner, and Express political editor David Maddox.
The debate was hosted by the Mirror and the Goethe Institut’s Katharina von Ruckteschell-Katte and screened in a live broadcast from Warsaw, Madrid, Berlin and London to celebrate this year’s Europe Talks.
Over the last few weeks, 17,000 people, including 2,000 from the UK have been matched with people from different European countries for a videocall chat.
Here are some of the people who met, and how they got on.
Michael Bailey and Joan Willson
When Brexiteer grandma Joan Willson met Michael Bailey - a former British citizen now living in Austria - the conversation quickly turned to Covid jabs and migration.
Speaking at home in Camarthen, west Wales, Joan, 82, says: “You’re in the luckier spot in Austria – here in Wales, it is a total, utter disaster. We can’t see a doctor and I had a nightmare to get my booster.”
Michael, 44, a translator, says: “I got my two jabs within five weeks of each other and I was literally able to walk in to get my booster.”
He asks: “Would it worry you if I said I am an immigrant in Austria?”
Joan, who lived in South Africa with her late husband, says: “I have no problem with that, we migrated to South Africa for a better life. We voted for the Conservatives because they had a promise that they would control immigration, but they haven’t. We don’t have jobs for our young people.”
Michael says he “begs to differ” and has helped an Afghan man who “has been through hell”.
Angela Gash and Semra Gyokche
When Angela Gash, 56, met Semra Gyokche, 38, an accountant living in Kardzhali, Bulgaria, she was pleased by Semra’s liberal attitudes.
Accountant Angela, from Highbury, North London, said: “The general feeling we have been given about Eastern Europeans is that they can be homophobic and racist.
“I was so happy to see your responses.” Semra, who has gay friends, says, “Everyone is entitled to express themselves as they wish.” Angela went on: “48% of us do want to be part of Europe. When we found out we were leaving Europe, I cried.”
Semra agrees, adding. “When I came to the UK for a holiday, a lady said to us, ‘we don’t want the Romanians and Bulgarians here.”
“I am so sorry you experienced that,” says Angela.
Rich O’Mara and Maybritt Langewand
Lockdown, the environment and languages were talking points when Rich O’Mara, 55, chatted to German student Maybritt Langewand, 19.
Living in Wilmslow, Cheshire, with his wife and kids, pilot Rich has been to Germany about 100 times but has struggled to learn the native tongue.
He is due to make his first flight in two years and Madrid-based Maybritt has also been hit by the lockdown. The multi-linguist reveals: “University continued online but my mum suffered because we live off tourism.
“I worry about our environment”.
Rich says: “To be able to fly across Europe for £20 is just wrong. There should be a minimum price that reflects its carbon cost.”
Maybritt adds: “If you just raise the price, fewer people will use it, but you just exclude people who can’t pay.”
Maria Hearl and Sevda Pumova
Retired headteacher and vicar Maria Hearl has had pen pals since she was a teenager and jumped at the chance to update the tradition.
When she joined a videocall with Sevda Pumova, an accountant, from Pleven, Bulgaria, their conversation came easily. Now they plan to keep in touch with fortnightly Zoom calls.
Maria, who lives with her husband in Tiverton, Devon, loves travelling and when she reveals she’s visited Bulgaria, Sevda is impressed.
The keen linguist says: “I’ve stayed not very far from where she lives and I’ve got a few phrases in Bulgarian.
“The day we left Europe was the worst day of my life.”
Sevda, 41, adds: “I love talking to Maria, she is very opinionated on most things. On most of it we found we have the same position.”
Eddy Canfor-Dumas and Sigrid Korner
Life after Brexit was the major topic of conversation when Brit Eddy Canfor-Duman got together with Sigrid Korner, 62, a university lecturer from Frankfurt, Germany,
“There is a growing regret, people were lied to,” Eddy says.
“There were two Leave campaigns. Farage and co, he appealed to a xenophobic, Little Britain. Then there was the libertarian side that talked about democracy and trade deals.”
The 64-year-old writer from near Watford, adds: “There’s going to be huge buyers’ remorse.”
“We were disappointed,” says Sigrid. “We were hoping until the last moment you would remain.”
How both countries welcome migrants is another discussion with Sigrid feeling it’s positive although the “German reserve” means the people don’t mingle and stay in their own communities.
Eddy adds: “My experience of Germany has been that it’s a much more tolerant society than Britain.”
The pair agree to stay in touch.
