See you next time!
That’s almost from us above the line for now – thanks for reading and taking part in the discussion today.
We’ll be back with more reaction and digestion of the week’s news and views this time next week, but in the meantime we want you to tell us what you’d like to talk about in this space. You can do so in the comments, or by emailing sarah.marsh@theguardian.com or matthew.holmes@theguardian.com
We’re looking forward to hearing from you. In the meantime, have a great weekend!
Updated
Here’s a reader’s thoughts on Britishness
The 10-a-day diet tested: 'I feel like a sentient composter'
If anything, I’m even less optimistic about hitting 10 portions of fruit and veg a day than I was when I wrote this piece. Speaking to nutritionists, and hearing from Felicity Cloake, has just made everything so much more complicated. Really, “10 a day” is too simplistic a name for this. Really, it should be called “10 a day, but not too much fruit, and only a certain sort of vegetable, and absolutely no duplicates whatsoever”. Making people feel guilty for not eating enough fruit and veg is one thing, but making them feel guilty for eating the wrong sort of fruit and veg just seems unnecessarily churlish. This whole thing just seems like a way to make people feel bad about themselves, which is why I’ve given up. Pizza tonight. Pizza forever.
Another writer who is reflecting on a piece written this week is Stuart Heritage – who took the 10 fruit and veg a day challenge we discussed in this space last week.
We’ll have some of his thoughts shortly.
The struggle to be British: my life as a second-class citizen
I escaped from the dreary cold weather in London earlier this week to beautiful sunlit Madrid for the Idea Camp 2017, a conference which explores belonging, migration and citizenship. And it is these subjects which my long read addressed.
I was humbled and moved by the reaction from Guardian readers. I got tweets, emails and Facebook messages with their reactions and most important to me, their own stories and experiences, and how this related to where they are.
If you read anything today, make sure it's this. Profound, personal piece by @IsmailEinashe on identity, belonging and Britishness today https://t.co/itbuTJzRUC
— Maryyum Mehmood (@marymood) March 2, 2017
The most interesting reactions were the outrage many felt about how the UK government can strip British citizens of their rights. And the way this has been presented to us as a short-cut to fighting terrorism, when in reality this masks the true purpose of such laws which is to embolden the state, at the expense of ordinary people.
Many sent me moving emails about their own struggles to become British. I worked on this long read for several months, so it was heartening to get emails and Tweets from many readers expressing their “thanks”, because my words made them feel visible.
I want to hear from people about their own experiences, journeys and stories of moving borders and becoming a citizen somewhere else. Please share them below.
Again, we’ll move to another topic above the line here shortly, with a discussion of some of the articles that have been widely read this week by the writers who have written them.
Next up we’ll have some thought from Ismail Einashe, who wrote a well received long read on his struggle to be British.
For more from long reads – if you use Twitter – it’s worth giving them a follow @gdnlongread
Perhaps unsurprisingly you are still discussing hipsterdom below the line.
Hipsters are people who have no core idea about who they really are deep down. They try on any trendy clothes, music, hobbies, careers, and even political ideas, just to try and seem like they are on the cutting edge when the stark reality is they have no idea what they really believe in or what makes them who they are because they never wear it long enough to sink in. Being a hipster, in my view, is someone attempting to put other's ideas onto their self in a conscious effort, rather than developing their own identity or simply being comfortable in their own skin. It usually happens when people are desperately seeking popularity, don't have much personality, or haven't found success through traditional paths and therefore want to distinguish themselves as 'not like the mainstream' in order to appear interesting.
Hipster originates in Berlin.
When the wall came down old and new organically came together to create a style influenced by nostalgia and technology. Which has progressed into Instagram for example. However where a cultural youth movement like punk had few influences, hipster is a global phenomenon that took shape with the birth of the internet, so no one can really put their liberal finger on it.
Especially as it grew in a period where we've never had more information about our diet and world. If a happening starts on a housing project like Hip-Hop, its easy to define.
Finally on this topic, for now:
This, in reference to Martin Belam (see 14.25) is actually a point raised by many readers before – we’ll ask around and see if we can get someone from the obits desk to write about their process. I doubt they’d be willing to spill any royal secrets, though ...
"For something like the Oscars, where there are a limited number of expected outcomes, we pre-write articles so they are ready to be published the instant the news breaks. "
Please tell me you have something similar for when the queen dies. If you do any chance of a sneak preview? If you don't any chance of leaving the article writing to us denizens of Cif?
'DELETE, DELETE!': behind the scenes at the Guardian on Oscars Sunday
A new experience for me on Sunday night/Monday morning – I’ve never previously had to delete so many tweets and Instagram posts from so many Guardian social media accounts in so short a time.
Yes, it was my annual overnight shift in the Guardian’s London office to help cover the Oscars. And it ended quite unlike any other I’ve experienced.
The @guardianfilm have been awake forever - here's everything you need to know about the 2017 Oscars https://t.co/ygodsuB1Xk
— harriet (@harrietgibsone) February 27, 2017
For something like the Oscars, where there are a limited number of expected outcomes, we pre-write articles so they are ready to be published the instant the news breaks. So you can hit ‘go’ on “Emma Stone wins best actress” the second her name is read out, and then gradually add in to the article what she has said, the right photo of her accepting the award and so on, as events continue to unfold.
Which is how we ended up publishing that La La Land had won best picture, then unpublishing it, and publishing that Moonlight won in the space of a couple of minutes.
As I left the office in the morning, I saw a lot of reaction along the lines of “So they read out the wrong name, big deal, what’s the fuss” but unless you watched it in real-time it’s difficult to convey just how jaw-dropped an experienced newsroom was by it all. In the space of thirty seconds my mind went from “Oh La La Land has won” to “Oh the producers of La La Land are doing a nice gesture to share the limelight with Moonlight” to “Seriously, are you actually kidding me! Delete! Delete! Delete!”
Did the media focus too much on the mistake, and allow that to detract from Moonlight’s achievement? Very probably. It was an irresistible story though - the human drama etched on those faces on stage as the mix-up unfolded made a compelling set of images.
I think the right film won in the end. My favourite theory I’ve heard this week though is that with the rise of the global fascist right, the state of the environment, and the impending collapse of civilisation, we’ve slipped into an alternate universe or timeline where all the bad stuff is happening. The Oscars mix-up allowed us a brief glimpse of the true timeline trying to re-assert itself – where a movie like Moonlight wins awards instead of La La Land.
And here’s a piece where readers told us who should have won the Oscars ... Hunt for the Wilderpeople, Nocturnal Aminals and Sing Street seemed popular with those of you who got in touch before the ceremony.
Do you agree with readers’ nominations?
Updated
Oscars chaos: what did you make of it?
Maybe the biggest talking point of the week was a huge mishap, which saw the wrong film (La La Land) awarded an Oscar – before the right winners (Moonlight) were eventually called on stage. It was the final twist in the Oscar’s final scene. As a result two accountants, who were responsible for the mistake, have been sacked (a more detailed explanation of why can be found here).
What did you make of events? Worth the press attention it got? Did it make you enjoy the Oscars more, knowing that those behind it are mere mortals like us? Share your views.
The week in photographs – from our picture editors
The week started in fine style with the calamitous climax to the Oscars ceremony at the Dolby Theatre in Hollywood. Warren Beatty was at the centre of the confusion:
President Trump’s counselor Kellyanne Conway provoked much comment when she clambered onto a White House sofa to snap this pic:
And, as ever, the Rio carnival provided an abundance of photo opportunities.
You can share your pictures in our latest assignment from the new readers’ picture desk series – looking for photographs of revelry around the world – by clicking the blue GuardianWitness buttons on this article. Or, tell us about your favourite images of the week in the comments.
Updated
We’ll move on to discuss some other topics above the line here shortly, but do keep chatting about your encounters with hipsters in the comments ... and take our poll. Are you a hipster yourself? If you “admit” to being one, does that mean you aren’t one after all?
A side note – hipsters like pubs, don’t they? And real ale?
A taste of the comments on the @Guardian story about the @CAMRA_Official pub of the year https://t.co/kfDVY5GIyZ pic.twitter.com/SPDUcfJW4j
— Matthew Holmes (@matthewailin) March 3, 2017
With thanks to jifferyvtwo and particularly Arraiga2 for a chuckle... Oh, and a response:
We liked this point ...
Serious note though is there not somehting to say for people who are suspicious of consumersm, promote localism, eschew corporatism and prioritise sustainability? Is that not a type of person we should celebrate rather than ridicule and isn't there some sort of agenda in being cynical about hipsters?
Ugh god this is the most hipster thing i've ever written i hate myself.
And there is some serious discussion on hipster impact
Hipsters are simply another social group like emos/chavs, mods/rockers, hippies/punks all once were.
Blaming them for gentrification is absurd. They're not the property developers buying the land or the estate agents setting the rent prices on the inevtiable upmarket flats. If you're looking for the true cause of gentrification how about asking why outward expansion of London is constricted by an out of date Green Belt policy.
Realistically, it's limited supply of land with high demand which is driving gentrification, not some bloke opening an organic coffee shop in Peckham and only playing 70's records.
Updated
Another definition of hipsters from a reader below ...
A hipster:
Someone who protests against consumerism primarily by consuming.
My two cents.
And following on from Tony Naylor’s points, a poll!
Updated
This reader has written a whole blog on hipsters ...
I would take dandy over hipster any day. The hipster of today wears experience like a badge, gathered from the shelves of a ‘vintage’ shop and set up somewhere obvious but not loud on your carefully maintained body. Hipsters are, in the words of one recent critic, grounded in irony and the distance that provides in relation to ‘bad things’ happening and the drive to
appropriating stuff. "Everything, to be precise. Your grandfather’s facial hair, 70s albums, and remote neighborhoods that are still close to downtown. Whether it’s in music, style, or actual land — stealing, reclaiming, re-using, settling, gentrifying, or whatever else you want to call it is at the core of hipstering. You must find something that already existed, that is completely uncool, and then you must announce that it’s cool and then all your friends must come there and set up shop, and then you must walk around it like you own it. And then you’ve gotta find something else that was already there. And repeat."
https://medium.com/@JimBarrett/hipster-versus-dandy-6ef3c9c1dfea#.dhigvq4p5
But apart from him, is this true?
30 minutes in, on a friday lunchtime. It appears that nobody want to talk about hipsters.
Updated
What makes a food a "hipster food"?
“It is exhausting. It is exciting.” Was how I described the ever-accelerating churn of new ideas in food in the intro to this week’s Ultimate Hipster-Food Glossary. That tone of affection and ambivalence is, for me, the only suitable one for a scene as creative as it is ludicrous. For every worthwhile idea in modern food, nine more will leave you open-mouthed – and not in a good way (see unicorn food).
That ambiguity, however, seems to irritate many of those motivated enough to post BTL. It is all good fun and, when I have the time, I happily join in these conversations. But to be accused within a few posts of being a killjoy (“Let people enjoy whatever they want, it’s not hurting anybody,” argued Kate), and a harbinger of the end of civilisation (“That article genuinely made me reconsider my humanity,” said SisterXyl), is bewildering. Online encourages iron dogmatism about frivolous topics, but why do people feel a need to strike a dramatic pose? Is being conciliatory online seen as boring?
Luckily, the conversation soon widened and got into some deep detail. Between the insults, food threads can be surprisingly educational and thought-provoking. This one took in why jackfruit and durian are not the same thing; dissections of different horchata; issues of cultural appropriation around global foods; and the glories of Georgian cuisine. Which led to this magnificent exchange:
Sorry, it has been a while since I was in Tbilisi.
This is the most glamorous sentence I've read all day. :)
Meanwhile, the rest of the discussion was, but of course, a bunfight about my use of the word “hipster”. For me, it has become so diluted it is uncontentious. It can be used, as I intended, as a tongue-in-cheek summation of our collective thirst for new things, on a spectrum from dysfunctional, trend-setting obsessiveness to a healthy, worldly curiosity.
Other people, however, clearly see “hipsters” (whoever they may be) as a significant, serious social malaise. Really? Even at its most excessive, is hipsterdom anything other than an attempt to live outside mainstream culture? Confused as that may be, it is surely admirable?
But then I would say that, sat here with my turbo G&T and khachapuri. Which just leaves space for a few amusing comments which made which made me spray “dank” IPA all over my screen:
All a hipster is, I want a shag, I'll get a beard.
That's not a movement.
And this exchange:
That such humour persists BTL, amid the rancour, restores my faith in humanity.
Welcome
Hello everyone, it’s Friday! So, as ever, we will be running our weekly social, discussing the best news and comment with readers. We have loads lined up, including a look at what makes a hipster food a hipster food, a recap on the Oscar’s faux pas and a look at Trump’s presidency so far in numbers.
This space, however, is largely led by you, so if there’s something you want to talk about raise it below the line or email us – sarah.marsh@theguardian.com or matthew.holmes@theguardian.com.
Updated
For a long time, britishness and englishness were all-but coterminous - as witnessed in Engels's work 'the condition of the working class in England.' Britons who weren't English were taffs and jocks and micks. Very recently, within my lifetime, these distinctions have been eroded and there is, instead, a series of divisions around colour, race and culture that are far from settled.
Britishness is, and always has been, fluid and changeable. Its goalposts shift over time and the British identity or sense of belonging can never be guaranteed. At times, like now, it is fragile and subject to many competing political claims. In fact, it's the fragility that is most worrying since it can be used to achieve all kinds of divisive ends.
A less fragile sense of britishness might go some way to ameliorating the anxieties and myths around sovereignty and duty in an interconnected world.