The 11th Republican presidential debate has concluded. Here’s a breakdown of what happened:
- Senators Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz took up where they left off in the last debate, throwing roundhouse punches at Donald Trump, the frontrunner. Notable attacks were leveled at Trump University, which stands accused of fraud, and at Trump’s seriousness as an immigration hawk.
- Did it work? The billionaire businessman seemed frustrated at moments, growing red and seeming annoyed, repeating himself and not always succeeding at finding on-point defenses. But he didn’t explode onstage or anything.
- One of the most potentially damaging moments for Trump, however, came at the hands of Fox News host Megyn Kelly, who brandished court documents to bring alive the class-action suit against Trump University, which former students accuse of delivering next to nothing in return for thousands of tuition dollars.
- Trump was driven to repeatedly saying “let’s see what happens at the end of three years,” in reference to the anticipated resolution of the lawsuit, which he downplayed as a “minor civil case”.
- Florida senator Rubio said that Trump was trying to put the same fraud over on American voters as he put over on Trump University students, in both cases selling a bill of goods.
- Texas senator Cruz repeatedly called on Trump to “release the tapes” of an off-the-record conversation Trump had with New York Times editors, in which Trump supposedly expressed secret flexibility in his immigration stance.
- Trump said he would not call for the release of the audio recordings, because his respect for the journalism ground rules for off-the-record conversations was simply too great.
- Trump also admitted he was moderating his earlier opposition to more visas for highly skilled immigrant workers. Might his seeming moderation on immigration hurt him with his base?
Trump: 'I'm softening' my policy on high-skilled foreign workers https://t.co/RIngjzLYs8 Genius strategy when your rise based on immigration
— Mark Krikorian (@MarkSKrikorian) March 4, 2016
- Ohio governor John Kasich won repeated applause for bringing the conversation back to the details of policy and describing how to revive public schools, how to balance the budget and how to downsize government. Kasich said that people tell him he is the only adult onstage in these debates.
- Trump was questioned about how the military could follow his potentially extra-legal orders to, for example, kill the family of a suspected terrorist. “They’ll do as I tell them,” Trump said.
- Rubio accused Trump of being unable to speak in depth about policy in any area, and of instead resorting to personal attacks.
- Trump at one point replied by calling Rubio “little Marco”. Rubio smirked and said: “let’s hear it big Donald.”
- Speaking of light moments, Cruz fell to mocking Trump at one point by telling him to “breathe, breathe, breathe.” Rubio made a crack about yoga. Cruz quipped he hoped there would be no yoga onstage. Rubio delivered the punch line, gesturing to Trump: “He’s flexible enough.”
- Trump early on appeared to boast about the size of his penis. He noted that Rubio had accused him of having small hands and seemed to imply that his, Trump’s, penis was similarly small. “I guarantee you there’s no problem,” Trump reassured the audience.
Updated
Here are the top-tweeted #GOPDebate moments, via the metrics folks at Twitter:
1. Trump defends his businesses, including Trump University.
2. Cruz tells Trump to relax, Rubio follows up with a yoga joke.
3. Trump calls Rubio “little Marco”; Chris Wallace live fact-checks Trump.
Updated
From the comments / who won?
We haven’t had much opportunity tonight to jump into the comments. Let’s see what’s going on down there.
well said - Clinton, weak as she is and she must know it, has got to be thrilled with how this is working out; Kasich could actually have beaten her in the general election had the party not eaten itself
As an observer to this theatrical nonsense from the Republican Party, the only things that seem to appeal to crowd is, who is the biggest celebrity, who will give you the biggest gun, and who prays to God more than the other. America you really are in deep trouble.
The winner - Fox News gets high ratings
The Loser - The American People
It’s proper to fist bump after a debate, everybody knows that.
Rubio fist bumps https://t.co/UHIG0a75Ot
— Dan Steinberg (@dcsportsbog) March 4, 2016
Update: Rubio was hoarse. Looks like he was trying to keep his germs to himself. Stand-up guy.
Rubio, who has a cold, misses a golden opportunity to get his rivals sick too https://t.co/8SyhncVAOm
— Yair Rosenberg (@Yair_Rosenberg) March 4, 2016
Updated
Rubio is taking some heat from the #nevertrump’s on the right for saying he would support Trump if Trump is the nominee.
Really disappointed in @MarcoRubio right here. #NeverTrump
— Erick Erickson (@EWErickson) March 4, 2016
This is after championing #NeverTrump, labeling him a con artist and a defender of white supremacists. https://t.co/uV2l4sdlJF
— Sabrina Siddiqui (@SabrinaSiddiqui) March 4, 2016
Having said that, I'm not confident Rubio will actually support Trump if he's the nominee.
— Sabrina Siddiqui (@SabrinaSiddiqui) March 4, 2016
Key point: these pledges mean nothing.
— Harry Enten (@ForecasterEnten) March 4, 2016
That’s it. There is some generally milling on the stage and oh look there’s Bill O’Reilly again.
He’s interviewing Trump. Trump says the debate was “tough but fair.” Eric Trump and Melania Trump appear silently and straight-faced behind Trump like... props?
Trump calls Romney jealous. He says he did not have the “guts to run” for president and he’s a joke artist.
More on Romney. Why do you fill them with loathing?
“I’m loved,” Trump says.
Closing statements
Kasich: Progress in Ohio. Rehabilitated minority community. I’ll fix Washington. I’ll send you power to fix your communities. Restore America.
Rubio: Unusual election cycle huh. This is about opportunities. 21st century wow. Our children. Freedom. Prosperity. MarcoRubio.com
Cruz: I want to talk to soldier, sailor, airmen, marine, and families. Obama does not believe in you. That will end. And to the cops and firemen: I got your back.
Trump: I’ll bring jobs back. Fix military. Care for vets. “You’re going to be very very proud of this country in just a few years.”
Concluding question
Last question of the night: Will you support the GOP nominee even if it’s Trump?
Rubio: I’ll support the Republican nominee, even Trump, because the Democrats have two people left in the race. A socialist and a person who lies to the families of the victims of Benghazi.
Cruz: Yes, because I gave my word that I would. I keep my word.
Kasich: Yeah, I kinda think before it’s all said and done, I’ll be the nominee. Look, when you’re in the arena, you enter a special circle. If he ends up as the nominee. Sometimes he makes it a little bit hard but you know I’m going to support whoever is the nominee.
Trump is asked would he support the nominee even if it’s not him.
Trump: Even if it’s not me? Millions of millions of people have come to the Republican party... and Democrats are losing people. I’m very proud. The answer is yes I will.
Maybe there has been a gentlemen’s agreement in place during this GOP debate. Tonight, Cruz and Rubio have attacked Trump, sometime very successfully. Trump has been on the defensive most of the night.
Meanwhile, Kasich has presented himself very well. His foreign policy answer was superlative. Could it be that Cruz and Rubio are trying to put Kasich out front? I can’t imagine a selfless Cruz, but maybe.
Last commercial break! Let’s hear it – who’s winning and who’s losing?
Donald Trump (paraphrasing): "I don't get sued often."
— Ryan Felton (@RyanFelton13) March 4, 2016
From PACER ... pic.twitter.com/mGNPOydOMF
Kasich takes a question about a commercial his campaign ran tying Trump to Putin. Do you think Trump is naive about Putin?
“I’m not biting,” Kasich says. “Let me just take you around the world,” he says. He’s cheered and applauded.
Biggest applause line of the night may have just been John Kasich saying "I'm not biting"
— Ben Jacobs (@Bencjacobs) March 4, 2016
He goes around the world:
Russia: attack on Eastern European Nato member states is attack on us.
China: stop hacking us and pipe down in south China sea.
Egypt: they are on last legs.
Jordan, Saudi, Gulf states: our allies who need support. Annnd...
“We need good human intelligence.” Ding ding ding.
“Let’s call it a semi-trip around the world,” Kasich says. He has run out of time.
Updated
Someone like Ted Cruz, who is constitutionally incapable of exhibiting any emotions other than affected unctuousness or smug paternalism, should probably avoid coming across like a father on stage.
I mean, leave aside all the creeping discomfort of Ted Cruz reminding you of someone’s daddy; it’s just unbearably smug. Telling Donald Trump to breathe and count to 10 and behave like an adult is just such a weasel reaction.
For one, Cruz has been just as much of a petulant child as anyone else not named Bush, Carson or Kasich over the course of the debates. For another, it’s like trying to sneak a burn in through the backdoor of the discourse. Ted Cruz loses when he tries to attack Trump head on, so he’s going to passively attack him by portraying him as a child and showing how much wiser he is for refusing to engage. But Cruz is engaging, while trying to seem above the same inane slapfight he regularly engages.
Once you get past the superficial shaming, he’s either a hypocrite or a wuss or, more realistically, both.
Is this patronising "breathe, breathe" from Cruz really going to win over any Trump supporters to his side? #gopdebate
— Paul Owen (@PaulTOwen) March 4, 2016
Updated
Trump on military, again: 'they'll do as I tell them'
Rubio’s invited to say why he thinks Trump’s not qualified to be president.
Rubio says Trump hasn’t shown seriousness about foreign policy. Rubio cites Trump’s earlier answer about the military doing whatever he says even if it’s extra-legal. “That’s just not true,” Rubio says.
Trump has not shown “the intellectual curiosity or the interest in learning about these complicated issues,” Rubio says.
Trump’s reply: “I’ve gotten to know Marco. Believe me, he is not a leader.”
“Frankly, when I say they’ll do as I tell them, they’ll do as I tell them.”
Rubio says Trump once again was pressed on a policy issue and could only attack someone by name. Then he lists pressure from North Korea, China, Russia, Iran and radical jihadists.
“You have yet to answer a serious question about any of this,” Rubio says.
“Putin said very nice things about me,” Trump says. Then he says he had said, “Wouldn’t it be nice if we got along with the world and maybe Russia could help us?”
Here is Trump on targetting terrorists’ families:
And here’s the second 15 minutes of the debate:
As the candidates discussed gun control, they began to get more detail focused. Donald Trump has said that he does not support the ban on assault weapons.
In December, we investigated the 20 shootings with the most fatalities in 2015 and found that most gunmen obtain their weapons legally. More specifically, we found that in three of those shootings, assault weapons had been used.
Oh come now. This is a bit histrionic. Right?
My party is committing suicide on national television. #GOPDebate
— Jamie Johnson (@JamieJohnsonUSA) March 4, 2016
Cruz: 'I really hope we don’t see yoga on this stage'
Cruz hits Trump on guns, guns, guns for everyone, and Trump gets peppy and tries to interrupt.
“Breathe, breathe, breathe, you can do it. I know it’s hard,” Cruz says.
Rubio: “When they’re done with yoga, can I [say something]?”
Cruz: “I really hope we don’t see yoga on this stage.”
“Well he’s very flexible,” Rubio says, pointing to Trump.
Good one! Joke of the night!
Updated
Trump admits reversal on assault weapons ban
Q for Rubio: late justice Scalia said the second amendment was not limitless – so, what limits would draw around the second amendment?
As few as possible, Rubio says. He slips in that he personally owns a gun. “Gun laws are not effective,” he says. “We will protect the second amendment.”
Trump agrees: “I’m a big defender of the second amendment.” Then he says “many people will be dying in addition” from the 13 November Paris attacks. Four months later?
Trump is pushed on past support for an assault weapons ban: “I don’t support it any more. I do not support the ban on assault.”
This was Cruz’s attack on Donald Trump over his hiring practices earlier:
Social issues. Kasich is asked about saying that a cupcake maker should probably have to sell cupcakes for a same-sex marriage ceremony even if the maker objects.
Now Kasich: “If they ask you to participate in something you really don’t like, that’s another issue.”
Kasich says he does not agree with Supreme Court protections for same-sex marriage. “I believe in traditional marriage, between man and a woman.”
Then he says something about everybody respecting one another’s differences and loving one another. As long as they’re not same-sex married?
Q for Cruz: Can a gay couple adopt? Cruz says leave it to the states. Adoption and marriage should be up to the states. He attacks the Supreme court protection of same-sex marriage.
“I generally speaking agree with what he said,” Trump says. He seems subdued, not having spoken much in the last ten minutes.
A substantial portion of the CPAC audience missed the last segment of the GOP debate due to the emcees announcing last call over the PA.
I met a cheerful Trump voter in line, a young man perhaps a biscuit over 21, wearing a “Make America Great Again” hat backward. He said that people have been giving him a “right on” quite sincerely all day.
The room let out a huge “whoooooaaaaaaa” when Cruz shut down Trump with his “count to 10” line. Things are getting louder.
Booze is flowing, there’s quite a bit of yelling. This is basically a Springer audience at this point. It might be for the best that the alcohol has been cut off: many of these people certainly look, smell and totter like they pre-gamed at one of the many nearby surrounding restaurants.
There could have been a spontaneous white gang rumble otherwise. Lots of snapping and moving in lines down the aisles, menacingly. All it needs is a spark.
I’m considering throwing a can into the crowd and shouting a candidate’s name to see if it sets something off. If something happens, know we all had it coming.
Question about the collapse of manufacturing in Detroit, for Cruz. What would you do to bring manufacturing jobs back to America and train people to do the jobs?
Cruz says “Detroit is a great city with a magnificent legacy that has been utterly decimated by 60 years of left-wing policy.”
He goes back to Henry Ford and WWII.
“And then for 50 years, left-wing Democrats have pursued destructive tax policies, weak crime policies, and have driven the residents out.”
It’s all the left’s fault. No such thing as an international market for cars.
Cruz says he would lift regulations: Obamacare, the EPA and other regulators. And his VAT tax plan is a manufacturing magnet, he says.
Updated
Kasich is asked about Detroit schools, which are in debt and could go bankrupt. Should the government bail out the schools.
Kasich compares the situation to Cleveland, where “schools are coming back because of a major overhaul.”
“Fixing schools rests at the state and local level and particularly at the school board level.”
He could talk forever about this. He’s on to vocational education and vouchers. “We as adults have to fight in our neighborhoods and our communities for our children and their educations.”
“The people of this town are gonna rise and they need to be involved.” Cheers in the hall.
They’re back. It’s a question about government neglect and poisonous water in Flint, Michigan, not far from the debate tonight.
Rubio is asked about infrastructure improvement. What can be done?
“What happened in Flint was a terrible thing. It was a systemic breakdown at every level of government.”
Rubio is applauded for saying “the politicizing of it is unfair.” “This should not be a partisan issue... all of us are outraged. .. It is a proper role for the federal government to play at the local level.”
Here is Trump talking about the “off the record” immigration comments:
And this one’s the first 15 minutes:
Updated
How bad were those Trump lines: “Let’s see what happens at the end of three years,” and: “It’s a minor civil case!”
Updated
It’s true that the CNN poll they have been discussing put a range of hypothetical questions to respondents (very hypothetical; the February poll was about the November general election) but the difference between Cruz and Trump in a race with Clinton isn’t really anything to brag about..
The poll showed that in a race between Cruz and Clinton, Cruz would win 49%-48% (remember, these polls have a margin of error - the numbers could be 3 percentage points higher or lower). When respondents were given the choice between Trump and Clinton, they chose Clinton 52%-44%.
Updated
Here’s another commercial break. How bruised do you see Trump as being after that grilling over his university? Which attack was more effective – Rubio saying Trump was trying to do to the American people what he did to the students – or Cruz asking voters if this is the conversation they want to see in the general election?
Updated
Trump seemed a little cornered in that exchange over Trump University. It ended with him citing the polls. My polls are bigger than yours.
Kasich gets the mic and he says “there are a lot of people yearning for someone who is going to bring America back”.
“Let’s stop fighting!” Kasich says. A robust cheer.
Updated
I would actually definitely elect Marco Rubio as dog catcher #GOPDebate
— Deisel Daddy (@maxjeisenberg) March 4, 2016
Rubio: Trump trying to do to Americans what he did to students
Rubio: “I spoke to one of the victims yesterday ... They signed up for this course ... they paid $15,000 ... Then they had to pay even more money ... When they realized what a scam it was,” they asked for a refund and could not get one, he says.
“We will see who’s right at the end of a few years,” Trump says. He says almost all of the people who signed up said it was terrific. “Let’s see what happens at the end of three years.”
Then Trump says the school gave refunds to people.
Rubio: “What he’s trying to do to the American people, what he did to the people who signed up for this course ... he’s trying to con people into giving him their vote, just like he conned people into giving him their money.”
Trump hits back that Rubio is absent from the Senate and the people of Florida “wouldn’t elect him dog catcher”.
Cruz jumps in for the kill: “Let me just ask the voters at home. Is this the debate you want?”
“If we nominate Donald, we’re going to spend the summer and fall with the Republican nominee facing a fraud trial,” Cruz says.
“It’s a minor civil case,” Trump fumes.
Cruz: “You’ve got to learn not to interrupt. Count to ten, Donald. Count to ten.”
Updated
Politifact has examined Trump’s claim (also made before tonight) that Trump University was given an A by the Better Business Bureau, which reviews businesses.
Trump said about his entrepreneur institute that “we have an ‘A’ from the Better Business Bureau.” Literally speaking, that is inaccurate. The Better Business Bureau gives the program no rating today because it’s no longer a going concern.
Trump University had an A at some point. The Better Business Bureau doesn’t release details of its past ratings, but it did say Trump’s program had ratings that ranged from A+ to D-.
What we do know, from several published reports and archived Web pages, is that the university had a D in 2010.
Trump’s claim is literally wrong and also ignores the university’s lower Better Business Bureau scores. We rate it False.
Trump under pressure over Trump University
Rubio jumps in and attacks Trump on Trump University, which faces fraud accusations and a class action lawsuit. He says the school hired a manager at Buffalo Wild Wings despite Trump’s promise to hire the best.
“You’re willing to say whatever you have to say to get them to give them your money,” Rubio says.
“We have a 98% approval rating, we have an A from the Better Business Bureau and people like it,” Trump says.
Kelly clarifies: “The rating from the BBB was a D- and it was a result of a number of complaints they received.”
“It was elevated to an A,” Trump says. Not on the public record, she sys.
Kelly says “there’s a class action of 5,000 people” who say they were fleeced. Kelly points out that these are “working class” people.
“The lead plaintiff is now getting out of the case because it was so bad for her,” Trump says.
“You counter-sued her,” Kelly said, and you had to pay her legal fees.
Kelly is hammering him on it. She puts up a court document that says, “The victims of con artists often sing the praises of their victimizers until they realize that they have been fleeced.”
“Let’s see what happens in court,” Trump says.
Updated
Kasich jumps in and says people are frustrated because politicians just tell them what they want to hear. “What’s getting in the hearts and souls of people is they want change,” Kasich says.
“People are getting more and more frustrated with the system which is why we must pick someone with a record of achievement, not just talk.”
Hillary Clinton doesn’t seem totally convinced by Trump’s performance this evening:
The more time that passes, the scarier this gets. ⬇️ #GOPdebate pic.twitter.com/EEfDR3qyM0
— Hillary Clinton (@HillaryClinton) March 4, 2016
Kelly to Trump: People believe you tell it like it is. But you reverse yourself and here are three video examples!
She runs the video reel.
First on war in Afghanistan: Trump said “we made a mistake” getting involved; but then he denies ever having said it.
On Syrian refugees: Trump says you have to accept refugees “on a humanitarian basis”. Then later he says “we have our own problems” so no.
On Bush lying to get the US into the Iraq war. “They lied,” Trump says. Later: “I don’t know if they lied, you’d have to ask them.”
Trump says on Afghanistan that when he said Afghanistan he meant Iraq. He says he was just correcting himself. Confusing answer.
On Syrian refugees, he says the first time he took the question was early on and he heard the number was small. But then when he understood the flow was larger, “I changed my tune”.
Kelly challenges him: You seem to change your tune so much, where’s your core?
I’ve never seen a successful person who wasn’t flexible, who didn’t have a certain degree of flexibility ... You have to be flexible, because you learn.
Clever turn by Trump to suggest that flip flopping is being "flexible." #GOPdebate
— John Stoehr (@johnastoehr) March 4, 2016
Updated
Here’s a look at where things stand halfway through the debate:
Trump is still winning.
Kasich is the strongest, most impressive.
Rubio is the gadfly.
Cruz is the nit not worth picking.
Two more clips from the debate so far:
They’re back.
Arnold Schwarzenegger as a general in a video game commercial is the most plausible aspect of this GOP debate.
— Michael Ian Black (@michaelianblack) March 4, 2016
There’s another commercial break. Give us your report card. Letter grades or number grades, your preference.
Candidates attack Edward Snowden
Cruz gets a question about his saying once that he was open to the possibility that Edward Snowden had done a public service by exposing government surveillance.
Cruz runs away from that position with his hair on fire.
Cruz says the news of massive surveillance was a very troubling development. But the evidence at the time was unclear. Now, “the evidence is clear” that not only did Snowden violate the law but he likely committed treason, Cruz said.
Cruz outdoes himself demonstrating how much he dislikes Snowden.
Trump on Snowden: “I said from the beginning, he was a spy and we need to get him back.”
Kasich says a Foreign Policy magazine survey on who would be best at foreign policy as president gave him 55% of the vote.
Trump on military: 'If I say do it, they're going to do it'
Trump takes a question about an open letter from military leaders and intelligence figures including Michael Hayden warning that the military would refuse to carry out a President Trump’s order to torture terror suspects.
“They won’t refuse. They’re not going to refuse me. Believe me,” Trump says.
Then he says “we should go waterboarding and we go tougher.” He refers to “these animals over in the Middle East chopping off heads”.
Trump is pressed on whether the military could follow his potentially extra-legal orders to kill a terrorist’s family. [the description of this question has been corrected.]
“I’m a leader,” Trump says. “If I say do it, they’re going to do it, that’s what leadership is about.”
Updated
Rick Santorum is LIVE in The Octagon here at CPAC during the break!
He claims that he took a test that was supposed to show who he should, as a voter, side with. It turned out that he sided with Rubio more than he did with himself! Endorsing Rubio was only the next logical step. He then moves on to explaining how Rubio has been endorsed by the American Conservatives Union.
This speech is, bluntly speaking, not moving the needle very far. People are booing. Santorum is trying to amp up the crowd, and the divisions within it are just too big. Then, perhaps sensing that there is no problem with the mood he cannot make worse, he does this:
Santorum: I was at a funeral two weeks ago.
CPAC aide: Sir, we do have to get back to the debate.
The hyped rematch between Megyn Kelly and Donald Trump fizzles out. So far.
Why is Trump being so polite? Maybe because he’s trying to be polite to women. After all, Hillary Clinton is ahead.
In an 18 February poll, she beats him in a match-up.
Cruz to Trump: 'release the tapes'
“Donald, you could resolve this issue very easily by simply releasing the New York Times tapes.”
They’re now all operating on the assumption that the tapes exist.
“If in fact you went to Manhattan and said, ‘I’m lying to the American people,’ the people have a right to know,” Cruz says.
“You’re the liar,” Trump says. “I’ve given my answer, lyin’ Ted.”
Updated
Here are Trump and Rubio arguing over immigration earlier:
Trump: 'People don't want' short-term service jobs.
Rubio and Cruz attack Trump over a New York Times report that more than 300 Americans applied to Trump’s Palm Beach Florida club, Mar-a-Lago, but only 17 were hired and other positions were filled by immigrants
Trump says he’s had tens of thousands of people working for him. He says the Mar-a Lago club has a November through March season. “People don’t want a short-term job,” Trump says. “So we will bring people in, we bring them out.”
Cruz hits him with a question for the audience: “How many people here have worked as a waiter or a waitress?” he asks. Lots of applause. “Marco’s dad started as a bartender, mine started washing dishes.”
Cruz is starting a refrain: “Release the tapes.”
“This is all just rhetoric for the voters... simply release the tape. His record right now... is one of repeatedly hiring illegal aliens.”
Trump's unashamed "I'm changing" on skilled visas is a foretaste of how he'll handle the shift to centre once he's the nominee #gopdebate
— Paul Owen (@PaulTOwen) March 4, 2016
Trump: 'I'm changing' on visas for skilled workers
They’re back. Trump is challenged again, on his changing views about admitting highly skilled workers. His web site says the practice is wrong, but in a recent debate he said it was OK.
“I’m changing,” Trump says. “We need highly skilled people in this country. And if we can’t do it, we’ll bring them in.
“I’m changing it, and I’m softening the position because we have to have talented people in this country.”
Kelly points out that the Art of the Deal – Trump’s book – talks about the power of “Playing to people’s fantasies.” Is that what Trump is doing here?
“I’m not playing to anybody’s fantasies,” he says.
They are talking immigration now and it’s an issue that is intimately tied to the economy in the minds of many voters (and, perhaps not coincidentally, in Donald Trump’s rhetoric too). A report from Pew in September last year found that 50% of US adults believe immigrants to the US are making things worse for economy while 28% say they think immigrants improve the economy.
Ben Carson having a typical debate, doing quite well actually #GOPDebate
— Erik Herbst (@Erik_Herbst) March 4, 2016
There’s a commercial break. Where’s everybody at with this debate so far? Rubio’s attacking hard, especially on Trump’s lack of policy specificity – is it working? What about the Cruz attack on Trump writing checks to Hillary Clinton? Will Kasich pick up fans tonight?
Trump says he will not consent to release of tapes on immigration
Kelly asks Trump about a BuzzFeed report that the NY Times has an audio recording of Trump admitting his seemingly rigid and hawkish stance on immigration is actually flexible.
Trump seems to admit the conversation and praises media interviewing rules – rich for someone who has so forcefully called for new libel laws to sue media companies.
“I may have discussed something like that with the NYT. But I would never have released off-the-record conversations. I don’t think that’s fair,” Trump says.
“Many of those things were off the record,” Trump said. “I take being off the record as a very important thing... and I would always honor that.”
He’s pressed on whether he would call for the release of tapes with the Times editors.
The answer: No.
“I would not do that. I have too much respect for that process... I would not do that.”
“In terms of immigration, there always has to be some target.. deal... you have to be able to have some flexibility. Some negotiation,” he says.
You can watch the debate live here:
“It was for business,” Trump says. He says he does a lot of deals abroad, implying that he needs to grease the skids to do so. He says he supported George W Bush and Reagan.
Then we get a Megyn Kelly vs. Trump moment:
Kelly: Mr Trump. Hi how are you?
Trump: Nice to be with you Megyn. You’re looking well.
Chris Wallace’s use of graphics to fact-check Donald Trump is surprising – and hasn’t been the norm in past debates – but perhaps it should not be such a shock. Trump is a slippery fish, and the graphics are a method of pinning him down.
Fact is, however, that Trump still wriggles, even when it’s abundantly clear his budget numbers are completely bonkers.
Immigration question. Cruz is asked why Senator Sessions endorsed Trump.
“If you look to the actual record,” Cruz says, he’s the candidate to support for a tough immigration policy. He accuses Trump of supporting Carter over Reagan, and Kerry over Bush. “He funded Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi taking over Congress to pass Obamacare.”
Cruz also says Trump supported five of the eight members of the Gang of 8 immigration reform crew.
Cruz says Trump wrote four checks to elect Hillary Clinton in 2008. “It wasn’t for business.”
The crowd watching the debate at CPAC is getting rowdier. Someone yelled, “Fuck you, Trump!” (and, later, “[semi-intelligible F-word usage], BITCH” in one of those stagily breathy yells that sound deliberately half-hearted, as if to gauge the audience. It didn’t work; the hostility didn’t move the needle.
Trump is moving the needle. For a pro-Rubio crowd, Trump got howls and whoops for calling Rubio “little Marco”. He has a canny understanding for when abuse is funny, when puncturing seriousness seems cool and when to no-sell the assaults of his opponents.
Trump is winning a room that is institutionally designed to oppose him. Also, Fox News is hilariously trying to make Trump explain how tax cuts can reduce the deficit, when conservative media has never demanded any viable mathematical explanation of the utter horse-pucky of supply-side economics at any point in the last generation.
Updated
Kasich takes a question about supporting raising the minimum wage. Kasich said he never supported a federal minimum wage increase. “If states want to do it they ought to sit down.. and figure it out.”
Then he says balancing the budget is “not a theory for me.” As chairman of the budget committee Kasich secured the 1997 balanced budget act.
“I fought the entire Washington establishment and won, because when you balance a budget you must [address] every single thing.” He says you can’t be a generalist and “you’ve gotta take the heat.”
Kasich is cheered.
Trump says “as a businessman” he has to support both parties. “We need people to get along. We need to be able to get things done.”
Cruz is asked about abolishing the IRS. He says people will file on postcards.
Then he attacks Trump for a lack of specificity in his policy prescriptions... and calls him a Washington insider.
In between all of the insults, let me point out the specificity that was lacking... It’s easy to say it, but one of the great disconnects.. I understand the support for Donald... you’re angry. .. But for 40 years, Donald has been part of the corruption in Washington that you’re angry about.” By contributing to “liberal Democrats,” Cruz means.
Trump is asked about his proposals to cut the deficit by cutting the education department and the EPA, with a combined $86bn budget. But the deficit is $544bn per annum. “Your numbers don’t add up,” Trump is told.
Trump argues that the government can renegotiate contracts with vendors.
Wallace, the moderator, doesn’t buy it, and continues to press, saying Trumps’ claim to save $300bn on Medicare is belied by the annual Medicare budget being only $80bn.
Trump insists “if we properly negotiate” the money will be saved. “We don’t do that, we don’t negotiate.”
[this post has been updated to correct budget figures]
Updated
'Little Marco' and 'Big Donald'
Trump responds.
“This little guy has lied so much about my record,” Trump says.
“Here we go,” Rubio says.
Boos, boos boos for Trump. He says he did not inherit so much money as Rubio says. He says he has built a magnificent company.
But how soon will he move his clothing manufacturing back to the USA?
“I will do that and by the way I have been doing it more and more,” Trump says.
Lies, says Rubio.
“He’s not going to do it,” Rubio says, because he can make more money manufacturing abroad.
Then Rubio sets off a nasty argument with Trump: “You see what happens again when you ask him about a policy issue? The first thing he does is launch an attack.”
Trump and Rubio talk over one another. Rubio brings up Trump steaks. Yell yell yell. Big fight over whether Trump is a good businessman.
Wallace wants to ask a question about policy. “He won’t answer it,” Rubio says.
“Don’t worry about little Marco, I will,” Trump says.
“Let’s hear it, Big Donald,” Rubio says.
Boos boos boos.
Now the debate has turned to the economy - it’s a strong policy area for Trump and not just among Republicans. A poll by CNN/ORC last month asked 1,001 respondents “regardless of whom you support, which one [of the candidates] do you think would do the best job handling the economy?” Some 38% of respondents chose Trump, 25% said Clinton, 17% Sanders and in fourth place with 5% of respondents was Cruz.
Donald Trump says his hands are not small. This is probably true. The Washington Post has published a thorough investigation into this question. It estimates that Trump’s finger are 3.7 inches long, which appears in line with averages from other datasets.
Updated
Back to Rubio. You call Trump a con artist. But he employs thousands. Question: How many jobs have you created?
The question is jeered. What a crowd.
Rubio says Trump inherited “over a hundred million dollars” and lost it. “He can start tonight by declaring that all the Donald J Trump clothing will no longer be made in China and Mexico,” Rubio says.
He’s definitely got a tired voice, but he’s pounding through it.
Then he says that government does not create jobs. He refers people to his web site.
Updated
Here is a clip of the “small hands” moment:
Look: this is how supreme, unassailable confidence works. People enjoy it. This guy just brazenly lied about a joke that’s been coming at his expense for 30 years and then owned and totally absorbed all the energy of a dick joke, then pushed it outward with a thunderous chi blast of “whatever”. Attacks over. Done. Forget it. There’s no damn point.
Updated
Kasich: 'we're heading to my turf'
Kasich is pressed about what path he has to a nomination. He finished in single digits in most Super Tuesday states (except Vermont, and Massachusetts).
Kasich said “you all wrote me off” before.
“It’s now March madness and we’re heading up north, to my turf. And let me tell you this, I will win Ohio,” Kasich says.
He says when people get to know him, they’ll back him.
The spotlight goes to Kasich. It’s a question about whether he would work a cooperative strategy with other candidates to block Trump.
“This is so much about process, it frankly is boring to me,” Kasich says. Then he says he beats Clinton by more than anybody, by 11 points.
“In one poll,” Trump interjects.
Kasich ignores him. He says “I can get crossover votes.”
Kasich says people tell him “you seem to be the adult on the stage,” and that line is cheered.
Now a fight over polling.
“Of all the people on this stage he performs the worst against Hillary Clinton,” Rubio says.
“I beat Hillary Clinton in many polls,” Trump says. He mentions USA Today and Quinnipiac.
“I have not started on Hillary yet,” Trump says. “Believe me, I will start soon.” Cheers.
To be fair, in 1858 in Freeport, Stephen Douglas told voters, "there's a reason they call me the Little Giant if you know what I mean . . "
— Ben Jacobs (@Bencjacobs) March 4, 2016
Cruz gets a question and calls for a focus on issues that concern the average viewer. Then he says he’s the only candidate to defeat Trump.
Trump replies that he is winning authoritatively.
Rubio says “two-thirds of the people who have cast a vote... do not want you to be our nominee.”
Then Rubio says that “we’re not going to turn over the conservative movement” “to someone who thinks the nuclear triad is a rock band from the 1980s.” Good one. Trump groans.
Jeb Lund reports on the scene from CPAC as the debate picks up steam – less than 10 minutes in, and Trump has already made a “small hands; small something-else” joke:
We are LIVE from the ballroom of the Conservative Political Action Conference. These people were given chits for free drinks and warmed up by Sean Hannity. They are ready to get ROWDY. And from Trump to Cruz to Rubio, the crowd cheers only got LOUDER. This is a hugely establishment crowd.
Trump appears to boast about his penis size
Rubio is asked about his attacks on Trump over his tan, his hands, and his maybe wanting to wet himself at the last debate.
Rubio:
Donald Trump has basically mocked everybody with personal attacks ... If there’s anybody that ever deserved to be attacked that way, it’s Donald Trump.
Rubio is cheered-booed. He sounds a bit hoarse. He calls for a debate on the issues (and blames the media).
Trump replies: “I also have called him a lightweight ... and I have to take that back.”
Then Trump says Rubio “hit me on my hands,” referring to Rubio picking up an old Graydon Carter criticism of Trump being a “short-fingered vulgarian.”
Trump holds up his hands. “Look at those hands,” he says.
Then he says Rubio implied that “if they’re small, something else must be small”.
Then Trump appears to boast about the size of his penis:
I guarantee you there’s no problem.
Updated
There is a huge protest going on, even as the debate kicks off, in the streets near the Detroit venue hosting it. Protesters appear to be calling attention to the lead-laced water supply in Flint and the Michigan governor’s role in the public health debacle. Other protesters are calling for a decent minimum wage of $15 an hour.
Television media might have told us more about the protests if not for Mitt Romney, though maybe not even then. The former GOP presidential nominee gave a blistering speech Thursday morning attacking Republican frontrunner Donald Trump, calling him a con artist and fraud, and calling his supporters “suckers”. Thanks to his marquee speech, the media narrative of the day is Trump versus Mitt Romney and the Republican establishment. In that match-up, there’s little room for a redress of grievances.
Second question, about former KKK leader David Duke’s support for Trump.
Trump:
I totally disavow the KKK. I totally disavow David Duke. I’ve been doing it now for two weeks. ...
Ultimately he got to the Ku Klux Klan, which obviously I’m going to disavow...
Take a look at my Twitter account.
First question for Trump, about Romney’s attacks on him from this morning. The mention of “Romney” draws boos.
Trump:
He was a failed candidate, he should have beaten president Obama very easily, he failed miserably...
Obviously he wants to be relevant, he wants to be back in the game.
Then Trump says he agrees with Romney on free trade, but “we’re getting crushed” – so Trump supports a tariff on Chinese goods, which is not free trade. “We will make great trade deals,” Trump says. He’s cheered.
Rubio, Trump, Cruz and Kasich line up for the #GOPDebate pic.twitter.com/CPJCGbXkeW
— Paul Owen (@PaulTOwen) March 4, 2016
Here come the moderators. Megyn Kelly, Bret Baier and Chris Wallace. The candidates are already on stage. Left to right: Rubio, Trump, Cruz and Kasich. They’re being introduced and all get cheers. This crowd sounds ex-cited.
chill out, crowd
— Philip Bump (@pbump) March 4, 2016
Updated
Check out that hall:
Beautiful Fox Theater is @PureMichigan and wins for best debate venue! pic.twitter.com/PUagLJ8h1U
— Charlie Spies (@cspiesdc) March 4, 2016
More on that pilot who didn’t work for Trump, (Trump says), whether or not he, the pilot, was indeed a drug dealer...
Rubio puts out ad that my pilot was a drug dealer- not true, not my pilot! Guy owned helicopter company- don't think I ever even used.
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) March 4, 2016
Here’s the Rubio ad in question:
Court documents via the Smoking Gun:
When Trump's coke trafficking pilot was arrested Trump vouched for him in court for a lesser sentence. https://t.co/UDvUI3bcvH
— Elliott Schwartz (@elliosch) March 4, 2016
Welcome to the 11th GOP debate
If you’re just joining our debate live coverage – welcome! They’re due to begin at 9pm ET. Currently there’s a big protest staged by fast-food workers and “Fight for $15” supporters outside the debate hall in Detroit, Michigan. Of the four candidates to take the stage tonight only John Kasich, the Ohio governor, has stated a willingness to entertain a minimum wage hike, if it’s “reasonable.”
Facing Kasich tonight will be Donald Trump, the talented politician; Ted Cruz, the US senator from Texas; and Marco Rubio, the US senator from Florida. Yesterday Ben Carson said he wasn’t coming.
What to expect from this evening? Another round of pin-the-scandal-on-the-Trump. Last time Rubio and Cruz hit the frontrunner with everything they had in an attempt to bring him down a notch. Second time’s a charm?
Updated
Nora Ephron on Donald Trump’s psychology.
Nora Ephron on Donald Trump (1989) pic.twitter.com/4UyRNAiDd2
— Ben Street (@thebenstreet) February 23, 2016
We haven’t seen this Rubio ad, but we’re going to find it. Sounds spicy.
Rubio puts out ad that my pilot was a drug dealer- not true, not my pilot! Guy owned helicopter company- don't think I ever even used.
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) March 4, 2016
Sessions named Trump campaign adviser
Senator Jeff Sessions of Alabama, who endorsed Donald Trump in advance of his state’s Super Tuesday primary, will serve as Trump’s top adviser on national security, the Trump camp has just announced. Sessions is a longtime member of the armed services committee.
It’s some pretty serious muscle for Trump, who has attracted little support from elected officials and won the support of zero other senators.
The Guardian’s Sabrina Siddiqui is at the scene of the protest outside the debate at the Fox Theatre in Detroit:
Protesters chanting "Flint Lives Matter" outside GOP debate in Detroit. pic.twitter.com/XapEu8CxGJ
— Sabrina Siddiqui (@SabrinaSiddiqui) March 4, 2016
Flint protesters outside debate say GOP presidential candidates have completely ignored the issue and are covering for Rick Snyder.
— Sabrina Siddiqui (@SabrinaSiddiqui) March 4, 2016
As protesters outside the debate call for boosting the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour – up from its current $7.25 an hour – here’s where the candidates who will take the stage stand. They’re all totally closed to the idea except Ohio governor John Kasich:
Rubio:
If I thought that raising the minimum wage was the best way to help people increase their pay, I would be all for it, but it isn’t. In the 20th century, it’s a disaster.
Trump:
We’re not going to be able to compete against the world. I hate to say it, but we have to leave it the way it is. People have to go out, they have to work really hard, and they have to get into that upper stratum. But we cannot do this if we are going to compete with the rest of the world, we just can’t do it.
Cruz:
Every time you raise the minimum wage, the people who are hurt the most is the most vulnerable.
Kasich:
Have it be reasonable... I wouldn’t get into numbers right now.
Large protest by low-wage workers outside debate
In protest of the Republican opposition to a minimum wage increase (elaboration: John Kasich has supported a “reasonable” minimum wage increase, which the other candidates oppose), low-wage workers are staging a giant march outside the Fox Theatre in Detroit. (Michigan’s primary is on 8 March.)
#Break: HUGE protest outside Fox Theater where GOP Debate is taking place... pic.twitter.com/jBt9B7B9nT
— Dylan Byers (@DylanByers) March 4, 2016
Here’s a periscope view of the crowd. It’s big. People are chanting, “Whose streets? Our streets! Whose streets? Our streets!” and “What do we want? $15! When do we want it? Now!”
The protests is organized by the Fight for $15 group, which has sent this press material:
As presidential candidates from both parties converge in Michigan less than one week before the state’s primary, fast-food workers from Detroit and Flint who are demanding $15/hour and union rights announced they will walk off the job Thursday, and will join more than 1,000 underpaid workers to wage back-to-back protests outside the GOP and Democratic presidential debates in Michigan this week.
With a devastating water crisis continuing to unfold in Flint, fast-food workers from that city – who were among the first to join the Fight for $15 – will demand that presidential candidates from both parties support higher pay, union rights, and racial justice. More than 46% of workers in Michigan, or some 1.9 million, are paid less than $15/hour.
“The politicians who are failing the people of Flint are no different than companies like McDonald’s that are locking us in poverty – both are abusing their power, and both must be held accountable,” said Tyrone Stitts, 43, who lives in Flint, Mich., and is paid $8.50/hour at Taco Bell. “Fast-food and other workers in Flint will be not silent until we win $15/hour and union rights, and until elected leaders from both parties fight to make sure that all people have a fair shot regardless of what they look like or where they were born.”
Updated
11 debates is not that many
A reader just emailed us saying “11th debate?! How many more?!!!” - we know how you feel Peter. According to the GOP debate schedule, we should be nearing the end with just two more officially RNC sanctioned debates to go.
Historically speaking, that’s not so bad. The chart below published by the University of Virginia’s Center For Politics shows that Republicans had 20 debates in 2012. And in 2008, the two parties together notched up almost 40. Oof.
From the comments / what to talk about
We asked you what you’d like in your pre-debate coverage, and we gather that none of you are warming up by watching Fox’s run-up coverage, Real Talk with Greta.
Anyway here are some of your preferences and ideas:
Discuss: Donald Trump and the Politics of Resentment
Commenters: What do you want to do with the next 95 minutes?
How about folks read this - it won't take 95 minutes - and discuss?
Would Republicans really nuke Trump? Could they?
Commenters: What do you want to do with the next 95 minutes?
As an international viewer I am perplexed by this nomination process.
Would the Republican Party really go through with a broken convention just to avoid Trump becoming their candidate (regardless of whether they went for Romney or Cruz/Rubio)? Given Trump would then very likely run independent, probably resulting in a Dem win, isn't this a suicidal tactic? Or is the risk to the GOP reputation too great to allow him to represent them?
Or... are we so far into uncharted territory all the above questions are currently unanswerable?
As part of any answer to these questions I’d point out that pollsters who track generic Democrats versus generic Republicans find a mood close to right down the middle this cycle. Even if the Republicans arrive at their nominee in an extremely messy way, it will still only be July (probably) and if the nominee is a big enough name, there’s no reason to think he (she?!?) would be beaten before beginning.
One caveat here is that contested conventions are rare – the recent precedent most people point to is the Democrats nominating Hubert Humphrey (over George McGovern in a mess) in 1968 – and anyone who assumes there will be one should read a piece such as this from Josh Marshall yesterday: “No, there won’t be a contested convention.”
Addendum: trust us, dear international viewer – this nomination process is plenty confusing right here in the good old USA.
Clinton investigations and Trump as commander-in-chief
>> Commenters: What do you want to do with the next 95 minutes?
1. Immunity grant to Pagliano and potential for how this plays out for Clinton
2. Trump's continued threats to require military to "just follow orders" and commit war crimes if elected - this would be a constitutional crisis of major dimensions, what would military leaders do
We’re enjoying the conversation below the line on this one. See here for the latest on the Pagliano immunity deal.
Why does everyone hate Cruz?
The news coverage in the UK has been dominated by Trump. We don't know much about Cruz over here but I keep reading that he's nasty. What's so bad about him please, Americans?
We’d start the list with the fact that he is disloyal, as when he attacked senate buddy Mike Lee’s criminal justice reform bill; self-serving, as when he brought the senate to a halt to grandstand about “defunding” Obamacare which was not going to happen; underhanded, as when his campaign spread a rumor on Iowa caucus night that rival Ben Carson had dropped out of the race; and a sophist, as when he wondered aloud whether Chuck Hagel was taking money from North Korea during the former’s defense secretary confirmation process.
But read the Atlantic’s Molly Ball on this, “Why DC hates Ted Cruz”.
Updated
Commenters: What do you want to do with the next 95 minutes? Talk Super Tuesday, and whether Donald Trump didn’t actually do so well? Mitt Romney, and whether he has a secret plan to snatch the Republican nomination in a contested convention? Marco Rubio’s chances in Florida? Bernie Sanders’ path to the nomination? A Trump-versus-Clinton general?
We’re assuming that most of you are reasonably caught up with the news-of-day in US presidential politics. If not, you can get a quickie light roundup in today’s Campaign Minute, an incremental real-time narration in my colleague Scott Bixby’s live blog, or a full briefing delivered in news-story form and collected on our US politics page.
Former top Mitt Romney strategist Stuart Stevens has been going after Trump for saying that Romney begged him, Trump, for his endorsement in 2012:
In '12. @realDonaldTrump begged to moderate debate. Romney said no. He begged to be on campaign plane. No. Begged for convention slot. No.
— stuart stevens (@stuartpstevens) March 3, 2016
Update: from Romney’s former body man:
I was with Mitt every time he saw @realDonaldTrump and guarantee Mitt never begged Trump. Wish I would've recorded Trump kissing Mitt's ass
— Garrett Jackson (@dgjackson) March 4, 2016
Here’s our news coverage of Romney’s big attack this morning on Trump, in which he called Trump dangerous to the economy and national security, impugned Trump’s intelligence and business acumen and direly warned that “this is the very brand of anger that has led other nations into the abyss”:
In other news, Bernie Sanders tamed his famous mane in Kansas, which caucuses Saturday:
Just getting a trim - @BernieSanders stops for a haircut in Lawrence, KS. Press corp in tow pic.twitter.com/yWmhk1BOTn
— Lauren Blanchard (@LaurenBlanch12) March 3, 2016
Updated
It's debate night
Hello and welcome to our live-wire coverage of the umpteenth (read: 11th) Republican presidential debate.
There are only four candidates onstage tonight so it should be a quick one. Kidding: it’s scheduled to start at 9pm and run for two hours.
Notably absent from tonight’s debate will be retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson, who announced on Wednesday that he was rethinking his campaign after an underwhelming Super Tuesday performance (four last places; seven second-to-last places).
What we can count on is another two-pronged attack on frontrunner Donald Trump by the determined senatorial duo of Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio.
Remember what happened last time (summary here), just one week ago in Houston? Rubio accused Trump of repeating himself, Cruz tied Trump to Dennis Rodman and Trump called Cruz a “basket case” and a “liar” and said Rubio was a “choke artist”.
Who wouldn’t come back for more? Ben Carson, that’s who. Had he participated tonight, the surgeon would have enjoyed a home-court advantage: the debate will be held at the Fox Theatre (that’s how they spell it, the British way) in Detroit, where Carson grew up and where he launched his campaign.
In the hall tonight for the Guardian will be Sabrina Siddiqui, backed by Ben Jacobs in Washington and a team of reporters and commentators here in New York and elsewhere.
Onstage tonight will be:
- Ted Cruz, US senator from Texas
- John Kasich, governor of Ohio
- Marco Rubio, US senator from Florida
- Donald Trump, leading vote-getter
Fox News is hosting. Of mild interest tonight is the fact that the moderators include Megyn Kelly, the Fox host who so rankles Trump that he boycotted a January debate sponsored by Fox when the network wouldn’t nix her. Asked about the Kelly rematch Thursday, Trump said: “I’m ready.”
Are you ready? What do you think is at stake tonight? Who do you expect to excel, and who to botch it? As usual, share your thoughts in the comments, please, and we’ll get some in the blog. Thanks for reading and participating!
Updated
Trump is the GOP nominee. Frankenstein didn't like his monster very much either - too bad.