Terry Holmes is a true Welsh rugby great, a stalwart of Cardiff RFC who went on to also fill the great Gareth Edwards' number nine shirt with Wales - which he made a pretty good job of, too.
The 25-cap international enjoyed a remarkable career, winning multiple trophies and going on to also play for the Lions.
Finding what to do once they hang up their boots can be as challenging for some stars as their careers on the field of play.
But Holmes has never had such issues, albeit his years after shining so brightly in the public eye have been very different.
Simon Thomas caught up with Holmes a couple of years ago to find out what he's been up to since the end of his playing days...
As conversation starters go, it wasn’t the most promising.
“I don’t do nostalgia. I am a man for the present. I’m not one for looking back. The past is the past.”
When you are looking to do a nostalgia piece, it’s not exactly what you want to hear.
It’s two decades since Terry Holmes stepped away from rugby and he has moved on.
Ask him how he has spent those years and Holmes replies: “Working”.
The building trade keeps him a busy man and he doesn’t dwell on the past, with the next construction or renovation project to focus on.
So, as we sat in a coffee shop in Pontcanna, I wondered how my attempt to take him down memory lane would fare?
But, being the gentleman that he is, he proceeded to indulge me over the next hour or so, as we looked back over his rugby career.
And what a career it was.
There were 25 caps for Wales in an era of precious few Tests, a Triple Crown, two Lions tours and three Welsh Cup triumphs with Cardiff.
Then there was the spell in Rugby League and the move into coaching, which saw him take the Blue and Blacks to the final of the inaugural Heineken Cup.
On a personal note, he was a player who did more than just about anyone to spark my love of the game, with his force of nature presence at scrum-half, while he was also the first coach I dealt with when I started covering Cardiff in the mid 1990s.
Suffice to say, it’s an interview I’ve wanted to do for a long time.
So where to begin? Well, where better than the beginning.
“I was born in Churchill Way in Cardiff and then lived in Fairwater,” he recalls.
“I suppose I was probably about 14, 15, when I was playing for Cardiff Schools, that I first realised I was quite good at rugby.
“I was at Bishop Hannon School in Fairwater at the time. That’s long since closed.
“I played outside-half for a bit, but the teachers wanted to get me nearer the ball.
“I was small when I was younger, but then from about 16 to about 19, I had a growth spurt.
“I probably wasn’t the ideal build for scrum-half at that point, but I never thought of moving. That was my position by then.”
It was in March 1975 that he made his senior debut for Cardiff, just days after his 18th birthday, and up against arch rivals Newport, of all teams.
“I played on the Friday night for Cardiff & District and then they phoned me Saturday morning, because there were a few injuries, and told me I was playing,” he recalls.
In theory, the young Holmes could hardly have had a more daunting task - for Cardiff and then Wales - stepping into the boots of Gareth Edwards. In theory, that is.
“I didn’t really see it as that, to be honest,” he says.
“I don’t think anyone could follow him, could they really?
“It was my home club, my home town, so just playing for them was something I always wanted to do.
“Being Cardiff born-and-bred definitely made it that more special for me.”
Holmes soon made his presence felt, with his power, his raw strength and his predatory nature near to the line. He was like a ninth forward and, at times, simply unstoppable.
“Probably, technically, I wasn’t as good as people like Dave Loveridge,” he acknowledges.
“But I played a different game. If you were picking someone technically, you probably wouldn’t have picked me.
“I just played the way that came naturally to me.
“Towards the end, when I started to think too much, I didn’t play as well as I could.
“I was much better when I was instinctive.
“In my own way, I think I was born to play rugby.
“I played a lot of basketball as a youngster and I definitely think that helped with my handling skills.”
He made his Wales debut against Australia at the Sydney Sportsground in June 1978 and he was to be a virtual ever present in the team for the next seven years.
“Playing for Wales was the pinnacle for me,” he said.
“Running out in front of 50,000 people at the stadium was something I really thrived on.
“The atmosphere was incredible. We would stay in the Angel Hotel and walk to the ground. They were massive, massive occasions.
“They play so often nowadays, sometimes you wonder if it’s the same. We used to have maybe five games a year if you were lucky.
“It was maybe a different social occasion then, with the build-up and everything.”
He picks out the Triple Crown-clinching 27-3 demolition of England at the old National Ground in March 1979 as the highlight of his Wales career.
As for the biggest disappointment, that came earlier that season - the controversial 13-12 defeat to New Zealand in November 1978, when two All Blacks jumped out of a lineout to secure the decisive late penalty.
More than 40 years on, it still rankles with Holmes.
“When something is taken away by a poor, poor decision, it’s a hard to accept,” he said.
“You had New Zealand players admitting to practising diving in the hotel the night before and all that. It left a bit of a sour taste.
“It wasn’t the European footballers who invented diving, it was New Zealand rugby players!
“It should have been a Welsh victory. It’s just a shame we didn’t have a TMO back then. We would have won if there had been.”
Holmes’ consistent excellence saw him selected for two Lions tours - to South Africa in 1980 and New Zealand in 1983.
He was the outstanding scrum-half in the British Isles going into both trips and a nailed-on favourite to be the Test No 9.
But the fickle finger of fate was twice to intervene. Having scored tries in his first three matches in South Africa, his tour was cut short by a shoulder injury sustained just before the opening Test.
Then, three years later, he made the first Test against the All Blacks, only to sustain knee ligament damage during the course of the game.
“The Lions tours were a huge disappointment,” he admits.
“It never really took off for me. The 1980 tour was when I was at my best physically. I was at my peak. So I did find it hard having to go home early.
“Then I did my anterior cruciate in the first Test in 1983. It was such a bad knee injury they said I wouldn’t play again.
“But I wouldn’t accept that. I just got on with getting fit again.
“I played one game for the Rags and then played against England at Twickenham the following March.
“But I was never the same player after that.
“You were always fighting injuries. I could get by, but I was probably playing on one leg.”
While international rugby was the peak, playing for Cardiff was hugely important to Holmes and he shared in significant success, with three Welsh Cup triumphs in the early 1980s.
“Cardiff had always been a great club, but hadn’t really won that much,” he said.
“We started to understand we had to win things.
“To play for Cardiff in the era I did was a special place to be, with the atmosphere and the quality we tried to achieve.
“It was a great place to be around. We enjoyed each other’s company and used to have a lot of fun, but we trained hard and we were very competitive.
“We used to police our own dressing room. Everyone who was in there had to be committed. People set standards for fitness and training.
“There were a lot of really top class players, but there were a couple of world class ones in Gareth Davies, John Scott and Alan Phillips.
“They were on a different level, a different class.”
Then, in late 1985, Holmes’ playing days for Cardiff and Wales came to an end when he moved north to join Bradford Northern for £80,000.
“Union was almost my first love, but it was an opportunity to get a bit of financial stability behind me,” he explained.
“So I didn’t really have much option. It’s just a shame I was never really fit up there.
“I did enjoy it, but it was tough with the injuries because you could never compete on a level playing field.”
When he hung up his boots in the late 1980s that looked to be it for his rugby days as his focus switched to the building trade.
But then, in 1992, he was lured back to his beloved Cardiff as a coach.
“I fell into it by accident really. I didn’t have any ambitions to go into coaching,” he said.
“But Cardiff were struggling and Arthur Francis asked me to get involved towards the end of the season.
“Then, when Alec Evans came over from Australia, he asked me if I’d join him.
“He started coaching skills, which was a real eye opener, because we’d never seen a coach do that before.
“He was fantastic to work with and it was good to learn off him. He was a wily old fox.
“He was bright, competitive and a good man-manager. The players respected him.
“We had a fantastic time the four of us - me, Alan Donovan, Charlie Faulkner and Alec.
“It’s no substitute for playing, but I did really enjoy it and I got a lot out of it.
“I don’t think I was a technical coach. It was about good rhythm, good skills and getting pace into the game.”
Holmes was to have two spells as head coach, while Evans wasn’t on board, and he guided Cardiff to the final of the 1996 Heineken Cup final against Toulouse.
However, he found it a frustrating experience at times.
“The club wasn’t really structured for what I think we needed to take it forward,” he said.
“Players were getting parachuted in and it wasn’t really players we needed, you know.
“I would certainly have picked different players, but it wasn’t my call.”
Then, in 1999, his time at the helm came to an end and, after a spell in charge at Caerphilly, he stepped away from the game for good in June 2002.
So, does he miss it at all?
“I think I’ve had my time really,” he says.
“It’s a different game now, so if you’re not up to speed with the changes, you get found out.
“I watch Cardiff now and then, but not loads.”
Yet, intriguingly, he says he would have preferred to play in this era rather than the amateur one.
“I do wish I was playing now,” he admits.
“The game has changed beyond recognition, but I think it’s for the better.
“If I was playing now, I think I would adapt and really enjoy it. I’d definitely like to be playing in this era. I would much prefer it.
“I just think it’s a much more professional environment to be playing in, time-wise and with the sports science.
“It would be nice to have the new treatment for injuries and the ability to devote yourself totally to rugby.
“I would have enjoyed being able to commit myself fully to it and make a living out of it and maybe go to France. I would have loved to play out there.”
Now in his 60s, complete with a new hip and a new knee, father-of-two Holmes lives in Pentyrch, with family - as ever - the most important thing in his life.
So, as our conversation comes to an end, how does this man who doesn’t do nostalgia reflect on his rugby days?
“I am not one for looking back. The past is the past,” he said.
“I want to look forward. I never watch clips of myself playing or anything like that.
“You enjoy the moment for the moment and then move on. Obviously it’s nice to be recognised for something you’ve done.
“But the fame, or whatever you want to call it, doesn’t resonate with me. It’s not something I take much notice of.
“It was a part of my life I really enjoyed.
“I was very fortunate to play for my home town club and be successful.
“Wales and the Lions were extensions of that. The friendships you made were the big thing.
“It’s amazing really. You meet so many people from different walks of life, the Cardiff tours, the Wales tours, the Lions tours.
“You might not see someone for 20 years, but as soon as you meet up with them, it’s like being back on tour yesterday.
“I enjoyed it all. I wouldn’t change a thing, apart from the injuries.
“It’s great memories, but life moves on.”
And with that, he was away and on to the next business of the day.
Terry Holmes, a true rugby great, a man who has always lived for the moment.
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