We were speaking before about the quality of videogame courses at British universities. There are some institutes that have particularly close relationships with the industry – the three big ones in the North East, for example...
The University of Teesside has been fantastic in that they've really stuck with what was a less than fashionable medium for a long time – I think they showed real vision and are at last being rewarded for it.
They're doing some interesting things there, incubating graduate game development studios, and housing the Institute of Digital Innovation, where several game developers have started out...
They are, but you also need to take a look at the at the East Coast Scottish universities. Not just Abertay but Dundee and one or two others – there are doing some fine work up there.
Would you like to see more of that throughout the country?
Yes, I would because, a) I'd like to see it for its own sake creatively, because these are really worthwhile and satisfying jobs, and b) if you've the remotest interest in Britain's industrial future this is an area in which we'd better get our act together.
How have politicians reacted then, when they've found out about the situation in Canada, with tax breaks, etc? Have they been stirred into action?
Well, we've just lost Tom Watson which is a pity because he genuinely had got the plot; I'm told that Peter Mandelson has an interest and I certainly think Stephen Carter understands the potential of the sector. Among the Opposition, Ed Vaizey has been showing a very healthy interest for quite a long time.
The problem is that our extremely fragmented departmental system means you can successfully persuade two or three ministers only to wake up the next morning and discover that they've all been scattered to different departments and you're back to square one. Any country that's serious about having a successful industrial policy in the 21st century will have to develop it on the basis of a very different set of Governmental structure than those which currently bedevil us!
Do you think things will change next year with, potentially, the arrival of a new government?
It's an interesting question. Here is a thought worth looking at – whether it's merely a straw in the wind I don't know. I've been extremely impressed over the past 18 months at the quality of the people arriving at the dispatch box in the Lords. I've already mentioned Stephen Carter, Mark Malloch Brown in foreign affairs would be another; people who bring with them a deep knowledge of their subject.
I'd be surprised and a little disappointed if the opposition hadn't noticed the fact that they're dealing with people at the dispatch box who really know what they're talking about. I would love to think that the more rational of those who look at constitutional and parliamentary reform will say to themselves 'you know what, we should have more of this, not less.'
Now, what structure that translates into, and how you legitimise it I'm not sure. The Americans have a Cabinet some, but not many of whom come from the Senate or Congress – which they then leave in order to take up the Cabinet positions; by this means they've given themselves a system which allows them to bring expertise into the Government. We don't. We entirely rely on the possibility that some of our elected representatives might actually know something about the job they are asked to do; but there's absolutely no certainty in that. These are thoughts that are unlikely to win me many friends Parliament!
As part of the all-party group will you be in any position to bring more experts into the fold?
Well, for the reasons I've just laid out that's a difficult thing to do.
It would be very interesting to interrogate the actual depth of knowledge of the all-party group, but in fairness you can't criticise people who join the group because at least they're showing an interest. On balance, you have to congratulate them for that, and hope that by being on the Committee they effectively put themselves through a process of understanding what the really significant issues are.
It seems to me that part of the problem is that politicians often have the concerns of middle England paramount in their minds. They read the Daily Mail's annual 'ban this sick filth' stories and feel this is the best angle to associate themselves with. Keith Vaz is a familiar culprit; and Boris Johnson railed against PlayStation Culture a while ago. Can anything be done about that?
All they're doing is exposing their own ignorance - you've got to hope that sensible and better informed people end up simply ignoring them – and I think in those particular cases they did.
But you're right, this is a real problem. I mean, just to rub some salt into the wound, my experience with many, many MPs is that they will always prefer 'attitudes' that they think might resonate with the electorate, over the complexity of 'facts'. Whenever fact gets in the way of simplistic attitudes, they will almost always associate themselves with the attitude.
I came into Parliament in '97, having worked for six or seven years prior to that developing policy on the understanding that what we going to do in power – and this was something of a mantra for us – was bet our future on 'evidence-based policy making'. Within a few weeks of being in power, that much went straight out of the window!
And you have to ask yourself, why? No-one has ever adequately explained it to me. I'm left with the impression that the question itself is thought of as naive because, in essence I'm not nor do I think like, a politician.
Isn't it just about the fear of losing power?
The problem is that when good governance collides with power you've always got a problem – it's truth and common sense that loses out.
What did you think of the Digital Britain report, and what impact do you think it'll have on the UK's creative industries?
I think it's a well informed document; it's also one of the best written reports I've ever come across. It's represents a well researched and knowledgeable basis from which decisions can begin to be made. I've been... appalled is too strong a word... I've been more than disappointed by the quality of the media coverage the report has received, it's been extraordinarily superficial. You are forced to question how many of those in the 'media commentariat' have actually sat down and read beyond the Executive Summary...
One element that's come out of the report, and is reflected in the TIGA Play Together initiative is that Britain's creative industries need to work together to flourish in the digital age. Do you agree that this is important?
Yes I do, but the disappointing thing – in fact the subtext of much of the conversation we're having – is that in so many cases this is being done despite and not because of government action.
That's it. The games industry has had to forge these links by itself.
Yes. Some Tories would argue that's the way it ought to be happening – that's getting government out of the way. I don't happen to agree, I think Government can be the most tremendous supporter and stimulant – that's my vision of politics – that's why I'm in the Labour Party.
