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The Guardian - UK
The Guardian - UK
Politics
Andrew Sparrow

Theresa May's interview with Sky's Sophy Ridge - Politics live

Theresa May denies UK’s Brexit plans are muddled

And here is some reaction to Theresa May’s interview.

From the Lib Dem leader Tim Farron

Theresa May has confirmed she is taking us towards a disastrous hard Brexit that will leave our country poorer and more divided.

Reckless plans to leave the single market would deal a huge blow to jobs, investment and the public finances, meaning less funding for services like the overstretched NHS.

From Richard Tice, co-chair of Leave Means Leave

We welcome the Prime Minister’s commitment to taking back control of Britain’s borders therefore ending preferential treatment for EU citizens.

She is right that issues of trade and immigration are not binary because when Britain leaves the single market and the customs union, though freedom of movement will cease, Britain’s ability to trade with the EU and access the single market will continue.

And that’s all from me for today.

Thanks for the comments.

I’ve beefed up the snap verdict and summary at 11.29am with a few extra quotes. You may need to refresh the page to get them to show up.

The Twitter consensus seems to be that this was the best clip from the interview.

Here is some Labour reaction to the Theresa May interview on Twitter.

From Yvette Cooper, the Labour chair of the Commons home affairs committee

From Labour MP Chris Bryant (a former vicar himself)

From Alistair Campbell, Tony Blair’s former communications chief

Theresa May's interview - Verdict from the Twitter commentariat

This is what journalists and commentators are saying about Theresa May’s interview on Twitter. People are generally quite impressed by Sophy Ridge, but not so much by May herself.

From the Observer’s Toby Helm

From the Guardian’s Oliver Duggan

From the Mail on Sunday’s Dan Hodges

From Michael White, the former Guardian political editor

From the Times columnist Philip Collins

From the Financial Times’ Sebastian Payne

From the Guardian’s Owen Jones

Theresa May's Sophy Ridge interview - Snap verdict and summary

It is always a coup getting an interview with the prime minister, but it is not always a blessing. Theresa May is famously unilluminating as an interviewee and she is fast acquiring a reputation as the hardest prime minister to interview since Clement Attlee. In the circumstances Sophy Ridge did a pretty good job. She was polite but firm, pressing May repeatedly on immigration versus the single market, and it was good to see her challenge May over Donald Trump’s comment about grabbing women by the pussy. Andrew Marr or Robert Peston might have drawn the line at that one.

But even genitalia-speak did not get May to open up much. There were no news scoops in the interview, but a few lines of some interest. Here is a summary.

  • May rejected claims that her government was “muddled” over Brexit.
  • She implicitly criticised David Cameron’s government for not making any preparations for Brexit.
  • She implied that EU leaders would find it in their interests to give the UK tariff-free access to the single market, without forcing the UK to accept free movement. May has always implied that in the Brexit talks getting full control over immigration will take precedence over single market membership (which would require accepting free movement) and she implied that again today. But, despite being pressed, she refused to confirm this explicity. She said:

Often people talk in terms as if somehow we are leaving the EU but we still want to kind of keep bits of membership of the EU. We are leaving. We are coming out. We are not going to be a member of the EU any longer. So the question is what is the right relationship for the UK to have with the European Union when we are outside. We will be able to have control of our borders, control of our laws.

But May also said that it would be wrong to look at this as a “zero sum game” and that what was best for the UK would be best for the EU too.

Anybody who looks at this question of free movement and trade as a sort of zero sum game is approaching it in the wrong way. I’m ambitious for what we can get for the UK in terms of our relationship with the European Union because I also think that’s going to be good for the European Union. Our thinking on this isn’t muddled at all.

That implies that she thinks the EU will grant the EU tariff-free access to the single market because it will be in the interests of both parties, even if the UK does not accept free movement. (This is also known as the ‘have cake and eat it’ position.)

  • She said that addressing the stigma around mental health was more important than just spending more money on improving mental health services. She will speak about mental health in a speech tomorrow. But here plans would also involve some extra money, she said.

Money is going into mental health. But it is always wrong for people to assume that the only answer to these issues is about funding. Yes, there [are] some issues there and we have been looking at those and addressing those. But actually if we look at the issue of mental health in this country, I think it’s more about the stigma that still attaches to mental health.

  • She rejected the British Red Cross’s claim that there is a “humanitarian crisis” in the NHS. “I don’t accept the description the Red Cross has made of this,” she said. Asked about the problems in the NHS, she said:

There are pressures in the NHS, we see those pressures. We have an ageing population, this brings pressures, particularly in the interface between the health service and social care.

We have taken some immediate steps in relation to that issue but we are also looking to ensure best practice in the NHS and looking for a long-term solution to what has been a problem that has been ducked by government over the years.

The NHS is facing the pressures of the ageing population, that is why it is important that it is the NHS that has produced its five-year plan and is now putting that plan into practice.

  • She implied she would not be making a Commons statement on the NHS tomorrow, as Jeremy Corbyn has demanded.
  • She said that Donald Trump’s comments about grabbing women by the pussy were “unacceptable”. When asked how Trump’s comment made her feel, she replied.

I think that’s unacceptable and in fact Donald Trump himself has said that and has apologised for it.

  • She said her call for a “shared society” was about recognising that there is a role for government in addressing social problems.
  • She said that from the conversations she had had she thought the US would remain committed to Nato under Trump.

Updated

Q: Donald Trump tweeted last night that he was looking forward to meeting you. But how do you feel about him? He talked about grabbing women by the pussy.

May says that is unacceptable. Trump himself said that was unacceptable, and apologised for it, she says. But the relationship between the UK and the US is not just about leaders. She has had two positive conversations with Trump.

Q: So does pragmatism trump principle?

May says she is talking about a relationship that goes beyond individuals. Both countries can benefit if they build on relations.

And that’s it.

I will post a summary and reaction shortly.

UPDATE: I’ve corrected the second paragraph above because the original version implied that May was describing Trump’s language as unacceptable, not necessarily his behaviour. I was paraphrasing what she was saying as she spoke and inserted the word “language”, wrongly giving that impression. In fact, when asked how Trump’s comment made her feel, she replied:

I think that’s unacceptable and in fact Donald Trump himself has said that and has apologised for it.

Updated

Q: Would the UK come to the aid of a Nato country invaded by Russia.

May says article 5 says Nato countries do treat that as a joint attack.

Q: So the answer is yes.

May says people are wrong to think that the US will weaken its support for Nato under Trump.

May says addressing “stigma” around mental health more important than just increasing spending on services

Q: What does your plan for a “shared society” mean?

May says this is about recognising there is a role for government.

She will talk about mental health tomorrow. We must get over the stigma around this. If you break your arm and go into work, people will sympathise. If you have a mental health condition, people won’t want to talk about it.

Q: Is there extra money going into it?

May says there will be extra money. An extra £1bn has already been set aside for this.

She says, as home secretary, she took steps to reduce by 80% the number of people with mental health conditions being held in police cells.

Q: So how much more money is going in?

May says more money is going in.

But it is wrong to assume this is just about money. Addressing the stigma problem is more important, she says. She says one in four people will develop a mental health condition.

  • May says addressing “stigma” around mental health more important than just increasing spending on services.

May says she does not accept the Red Cross’s claim there is 'humanitarian crisis' in NHS

Q: Things look pretty bad for the NHS. What are you going to do?

May says she does not accept the Red Cross’s claim there is a “humanitarian crisis”.

  • May says she does not accept the Red Cross’s claim there is a “humanitarian crisis”.

She pays tribute to the work of NHS staff.

But the government has put more money in.

Q: So you won’t be making a Commons statement tomorrow?

May says the NHS is facing problems with an ageing population. That is why the NHS has developed a plan. It is putting it into practice.

Q: How embarrassing was Ivan Rogers’ resignation for you?

May says Rogers was a dedicated civil servant. He would have been leaving anyway towards the end of the year. His replacement, Sir Tim Barrow, is excellent.

Q: Is your thinking on Brexit “muddled” as Ivan Rogers said.

No, says May.

She goes back to the previous point. Anyone who looks at this as a zero sum game is wrong. What is best for the UK will be best for the EU too, she says.

She says she was right to take time to look at the issues. Jeremy Corbyn wanted article 50 triggered immediately. That would have been a mistake, she says.

We will be outside the EU. But we will get the best possible deal for the UK.

Q: Everything you are saying suggests we are leaving the single market. Why don’t you just say it?

May says she wants the best possible deal for access to the single market.

She is not looking at the means to an end. She is focused on the outcome. People who talk about access to the single market are looking at means. She is looking at the outcome, she says.

Theresa May's interview

Q: I was struck by the anger about immigration in Boston. When you were home secretary immigration went up to record levels. Are you to blame?

Theresa May says that as home secretary she brought in new immigration controls.

But the clip shows that people voted for change in the referendum. She will be setting out over the coming weeks how that will happen. Her speech tomorrow will show how this can be done with mental health.

Q: Will people trust you to deliver on immigration and Brexit. In 2010 you said you would reduce net migration to below 100,000. But you did not do that.

May says the government she was in was the first to recognise the importance of immigration. Some people cannot get jobs, or get lower wages, as a result of immigration, research shows, she says.

She says she is clear this is something she must deliver in the Brexit negotiations.

Q: So will getting control of immigration take priority over single market access?

May says it is not about keeping some bits of EU membership. We are leaving.

But we still want the best possible deal, she says.

Q: So, if you want control of borders, we cannot be a member of the single market. Be straight with people.

May says she wants the right relationship with the EU for the UK which will not be a member.

Q: I’ll ask for the third time. Will you prioritise controlling immigration over single market access.

May says she does not see this as a binary issue.

Theresa May.
Theresa May. Photograph: Sky News

The Labour MP Dawn Butler thinks Sophy Ridge is doing a Jeremy Corbyn.

Before the Theresa May interview, Sophy Ridge introduces “Ridge on the road” - a vox pop with voters, which she says will be a regular feature of the programme. For today’s she has been to Boston to speak to people about immigration.

Boston recorded the highest leave vote in the referendum, with 75.6% of people backing Brexit.

Ridge says she was surprised by how unwilling people were to discuss their fears about immigration on camera. She says plenty of people have told her about their concerns off camera, but getting them to say these things on TV was much harder.

Finally, we’re about to come to the Theresa May interview. But there’s an ad break first.

Two Scottish commentators are divided over the Nicola Sturgeon interview. This is from the Telegraph’s Alan Cochrane.

But the Times’s Kenny Farquharson does not agree.

Corbyn says May should give Commons statement tomorrow on NHS crisis

Jeremy Corbyn is using Twitter to propose a question for Theresa May.

Here is some Twitter comment on the Tom Watson interview.

From Huffington Post’s Paul Waugh

From Sky’s Tamara Cohen

From the New Statesman’s George Eaton

From the Mail on Sunday’s Dan Hodges

From the Observer’s Toby Helm

From Business Insider’s Adam Bienkov

And here is the clip.

From Huffington Post’s Owen Bennett

From Sky’s Katy Scholes

They are now doing the paper review on the show. And they showed a clip of Theresa May arriving by car at the studio.

This is from British Future’s Sunder Katwala.

Q: What do you think of how May is handling Brexit?

Watson says he has some sympathy with May over Ivan Rogers. A civil servant who effectively publishes his own plan is not doing his job properly.

  • Watson says Ivan Rogers was wrong to set out his criticisms of the government’s Brexit stance in his resignation email in the way that he did.

Q: What is Labour’s position on immigration?

Watson says Labour cannot support the status quo.

He says we do not know what will come out of the Brexit negotiations.

Q; So we don’t know Labour’s policy is?

Watson says we don’t know what the government’s policy is.

Q: We know Theresa May wants to take back control of immigration.

Watson says we don’t know what will come out of the Brexit talks.

Labour wants a system where we can count people in and out of the country. And we want a fair immigration system, he says.

He says Labour won’t win the election unless it can address this issue.

Updated

Watson says the Labour party is a “cauldron of ideas”. He cites Steve Reed and Rachel Reeves as examples of MPs doing interesting work on policy.

Watson says Corbyn must be allowed to lead Labour into the election

Sophy Ridge is opening her programme now.

She is starting with Labour, she says. She is showing the interview with Tom Watson, Labour’s deputy leader. The interview was pre-recorded. They met in a cafe in his constituency.

Watson says a golden rule in politics is that, if you think things cannot get worse, they can.

But another rule is that politicians’ predictions turn out wrong.

Q: Len McCluskey has given Jeremy Corbyn until 2019 to get better. Diane Abbot has given him until 2018. How long do you give him?

Watson says it is wrong to set a timetable or give Corbyn an ultimatum.

He says he thought Corbyn should stand down in 2015. But Corbyn fought the leadership election and won. He will be the leader who takes the party into the election. It is wrong to give him an ultimatum about having to improve, he says.

  • Watson says Corbyn must be allowed to lead Labour into the election.

Q: Do you back calls for a progressive alliance?

Watson says that is a “counsel of despair”. He is not going to back those proposals.

Q: When did you last talk to Corbyn?

Watson says they last exchanged texts yesterday (it is not clear when this was recorded) about the death of John Berger. They speak by phone or text most days.

He says it is a matter of record that he has a poor relationship with some around Corbyn. but he gets on well with Corbyn himself, he says.

Tom Watson.
Tom Watson. Photograph: Sky News

Q: What do you say to people who say you are a wrecker? You are trying to overturn a democratic vote?

Sturgeon says she is not trying to do that.

But she has a duty to protect Scotland’s interests. Scotland voted to stay. She will not sit back while Scotland gets driven off a hard Brexit cliff edge.

Q: You say if you get a soft Brexit, the argument for a second referendum will go away for a while. For how long?

Sturgeon says the case for independence will not go away. But it would go away during the timescale of Brexit.

Q: What does that mean?

Sturgeon says she is talking about the article 50 process.

Q: So a soft Brexit just means no second independence referendum for two and a half years.

Sturgeon says she is talking about the timescale of Brexit.

Q: In London they think they can call your bluff. You cannot win an independence referendum.

Sturgeon says the UK government will be making a big mistake if it thinks she is bluffing.

She says the Scots have to ask themselves if they are happy to see their voice cast aside. Do the Scots really want to be ruled by a Tory government?

Q: What is your message to May?

Don’t disregard Scotland, says Sturgeon. She says how May responds to the “sensible, compromise” proposals will show whether May really is treating Scotland as an equal partner.

And that’s it. The Marr Show is over

Q: Isn’t it impossible for Scotland to stay in the single market if the rest of the UK leaves?

No, says Sturgeon. She says the Scottish government published a paper showing how this could be done.

(There is a detailed description of the plan here.)

Q: How could you have separate immigration rules for Scotland and England without border controls?

Sturgeon says the government wants to do this for Northern Ireland and Ireland.

She says you could use employment checks to check people’s immigration status.

She says she is prepared to compromise. The UK government needs to do the same.

Q: This plan would give you independence.

No it would not, says Sturgeon. But she says it would give Scotland significantly more powers.

Many people in her part want a second independence referendum tomorrow, she says. She says she is trying to compromise.

Sturgeon says we need to get away from the situation where an obsession with immigration is overshadowing all policy decisions.

Sturgeon says she does not accept that leave made it clear during the referendum that voting to leave would definitely mean voting to leave the single market.

Sturgeon accuses May of having no Brexit plan.

The interview with Nicola Sturgeon is now being broadcast.

Sturgeon says she has spoken to May on several occasions. But she feels she does not know more about May’s Brexit negotiating objectives than she did six months ago. And, more worryingly, she does not think May knows more about what her plans are.

Q: Are you seriously says May has no Brexit plan?

I am, says Sturgeon.

  • Sturgeon accuses May of having no Brexit plan.

Sturgeon say she is putting the wishes of Tory Eurosceptics above the national interest.

She describes the meeting in October with the comment I quoted earlier. (See 8.56am.)

Nicola Sturgeon.
Nicola Sturgeon. Photograph: BBC

And the Labour MP Mike Gapes is unhappy about the absence of Labour guests.

The Sun’s Tom Newton Dunn says the Marr show seem to be getting revenge on Theresa May for not giving them an interview.

Q: Will we stay in the single market?

Greening says Theresa May will say more in her speech later this month.

Q: Will it say whether the government wants to stay in the single market?

Greening says May will decide how much she wants to reveal.

It is right to take the time to get a good deal, she says.

Q: So when Sturgeon says she will call a referendum if we leave the single market, is she bluffing?

Greening says that is up to her. She says the SNP are ignoring the decision the Scots took in the referendum in 2014.

Greening says the British Red Cross was wrong to describe what is happening in NHS as a 'humanitarian crisis'

Q: Why have we got a crisis in the NHS?

Greening says it is wrong to describe what is happening in the NHS as a “humanitarian crisis”. She says in her previous job as international development secretary she saw what real humanitarian crises were like.

Q: Are the professional bodies crying wolf?

Greening says the government is working to tackle the winter problems in the NHS.

Updated

Justine Greening's interview with Marr

Justine Greening, the education secretary, is on now.

Asked to explain what the “shared society” is, Greening says Theresa May wants the government to work for everyone.

Q: Every leading politician over the last 30 years would say that. What is the difference between this and David Cameron’s big society?

Greening says the big society was about mobilising civic society.

This is about tackling injustices. We cannot accept the injustices that exist, for example over mental health, she says.

Q: I still can’t see the difference.

May wants the government to be “more front-footed” tackling these, Greening say.

Q: Can you give examples?

Greening says the plans in her department for more grammar schools are an example.

In May’s speech, she will outline policies on mental health.

Justine Greening.
Justine Greening. Photograph: BBC

Clarke says May must have a “clear plan” by the time she gives her speech on Brexit due later this month

Clarke says Liam Fox’s department has nothing to do.

He says the customs union is the common market. Eurosceptics used to be in favour of the common market, he says.

  • Clarke says Theresa May must have a “clear plan” by the time she gives her speech on Brexit due later this month.

He says Sir Tim Barrow, the new ambassador to the EU, is a good civil servant.

And she says May should work with David Davis, the Brexit secretary.

(Effectively he is endorsing Davis as a credible, responsible figure, implying that some of the other cabinet Brexiteers are not like this.)

And the Clarke interview is over.

Updated

Ken Clarke's interview with Marr

Ken Clarke, the Conservative former cabinet minister and strong pro-European, is being interviewed by Andrew Marr now.

He says there is a hardcore of anti-European “zealots” in the Commons and the press. They were wrong to criticise Sir Ivan Rogers, he says.

To turn everything into personal abuse is an unfortunate feature of our post-Brexit politics, he says.

He says he knows Rogers quite well. (Rogers used to be Clarke’s private secretary when Clarke was chancellor.) He says Rogers would be willing to implement government policy.

Rogers is probably frustrated because one of two individuals he has to deal with in government departments is probably just giving him “slogans”.

Marr does not press Clarke to find out who he is referring to. It is most likely to be Liam Fox, the international trade secretary, or Boris Johnson, the foreign secretary.

Ken Clarke.
Ken Clarke. Photograph: BBC

Sir Craig Oliver, David Cameron’s former communications director, is reviewing the papers on the Andrew Marr Show. He says Sir Ivan Rogers, who resigned last week as Britain’s ambassador to the EU, had the nickname “tin hat” when he and Cameron were in Downing Street because the long memos he sent to Number 10 were so pessimistic.

Theresa May sets out plans for a 'shared society'

Theresa May will use a major speech on domestic policy tomorrow to set out plans for what she is calling the “shared society”. Number 10 has released some extracts in advance, and here is the passage where she explains what this means.

When we consider both the obvious and the everyday injustices in unison - we see that the central challenge of our times is to overcome division and bring our country together. And that starts by building something that I call the shared society.

The shared society is one that doesn’t just value our individual rights but focuses rather more on the responsibilities we have to one another. It’s a society that respects the bonds that we share as a union of people and nations.

The bonds of family, community, citizenship, strong institutions. And it’s a society that recognises the obligations we have as citizens – obligations that make our society work.

The Mail on Sunday story about this includes this quote from a Whitehall source explaining how May sees her “shared society” as being different from David Cameron’s “big society”. The source said:

Thatcher didn’t believe in society; Cameron wanted the big society to replace the state; we believe there is a role for government, but it must be shared with the public.

People must help themselves but the government must provide better schools, homes and hospitals for people above the welfare line – and this government will.

Sturgeon says she is not 'bluffing' about a 'hard' Brexit leading to a second independence referendum

Andrew Marr recorded his interview with Nicola Sturgeon, the Scottish first minister, in advance and the BBC has already written up a story based on what she said.

The top line is that she said she is not “bluffing” when she says she will hold a second independence referendum if the government goes for a “hard” Brexit.

She also said she was frustrated by Theresa May’s refusal to say what her Brexit plan is. Referring to a meeting with May in October, also attended by the first ministers of Wals and Northern Ireland, Sturgeon said:

I’m not exaggerating too much when I say the prime minister sat on the other side of the table at that meeting and said ‘Brexit means Brexit’ and not a lot more.

I came out of that meeting more frustrated, after a meeting of that nature, than I have ever been before.

Good morning. The prime minister normally starts the year with a big interview with a Sunday morning talkshow and this morning Theresa May is honouring the tradition - in part. She will be on the TV sofa, but she won’t be talking to the BBC’s Andrew Marr, who normally gets this interview because his programme is the market leader. Instead she will be taking the questions from Sky’s Sophy Ridge, who is launching her own programme today in the slot that used to belong to Dermot Murnaghan.

I will be covering both shows live. Here is the timetable.

9am: Nicola Sturgeon, the Scottish first minister, and Justine Greening, the education secretary, are among the guests on the Marr show.

10am: Theresa May is on Sky. Labour’s deputy leader Tom Watson is on too.

There is plenty to ask May about. Here are the two big political stories running this morning.

  • An Israeli embassy official has been caught on camera in an undercover sting plotting to “take down” MPs regarded as hostile, including foreign office minister Sir Alan Duncan, an outspoken supporter of a Palestinian state.
  • Theresa May will use a major speech to stake her boldest claim yet to Labour’s mantle as the party for social justice, promising that the government will tackle “everyday injustices” affecting working-class Britons.

I will be covering both programmes and then providing a summary, analysis and reaction. Normally on a Sunday we also have Robert Peston’s programme on ITV and Andrew Neil’s Sunday Politics but they are both off air today.

If you want to follow me or contact me on Twitter, I’m on @AndrewSparrow.

I try to monitor the comments BTL but normally I find it impossible to read them all. If you have a direct question, do include “Andrew” in it somewhere and I’m more likely to find it. I do try to answer direct questions, although sometimes I miss them or don’t have time. Alternatively you could post a question to me on Twitter.

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