Verdict
If there had been a clapometer in the room, David Lammy would have probably won it. A colleague tells me there seemed to be a disproportionate number of Lammy supporters in the room, and that may explain why, but he did seem to be the candidate getting the most applause. On the minus side, he was the candidate most liable to sound a bit hectoring. But, on the plus side, he certainly pushed the right buttons. His answers on “dirty money” in the city (see 8.21pm) and on the danger posed by rising house prices (see 8.46pm) were two of the highlights of the evening.
To be fair, though, the hustings had many good moments. Covering Labour leadership hustings has become a dreary, soul-destroying affair, not so much because the candidates are saying the same things (though they are), but because they seem nervous about saying anything new, and the chief interest lies in seeing how the two front-runners, Andy Burnham and Yvette Cooper, align themselves closest to where they perceive the centre of political gravity in the party to be. In this contest, partly because the powers of the mayor are different, the dynamic seems quite different. An observer hearing these six for the first time would be hard pressed to place them on an ideological spectrum, and instead the debate was one about practical ideas.
There are been many Labour London mayoral hustings already and the selling points of the candidates are well established. Tessa Jowell would be the Olympics mayor; the person with experience, who made the games a success. Diane Abbott’s reference point was Ken Livingstone, and she would resurrect his approach. Lammy and Sadiq Khan both highlight their upbringing, and the fact that they did not come from a privileged background. Thomas is the co-operative candidate; he is chair of the Co-operative party. And Christian Wolmar is the non-parliamentary expert, the only candidate not to have been an MP. All six stuck to these roles tonight, and when Polly Toynbee and Rafael Behr said Labour supporters had a good choice, they were not just being polite. No one is saying that about the party leadership contest.
Overall the tone was friendly, although it was interesting to note the snide asides. Khan was talking about Lammy when he said that he (Khan) would not build on the green belt, unlike others. Abbott had a dig at Khan, saying, unlike him, she had not changed her mind on Heathrow. But her sharpest barb was directed at Jowell. More than once she said that, unlike Jowell (the favourite), she had not just worked on stop-and-search for six months; it had been a lifelong cause.
From the party’s point of view, the only drawback may have been the tendency of the candidates to agree on too much. When Wolmar said that he was not impressed by the case for a youth mayor, because the issue of youth disengagement demanded a more substantial approach, he introduced a surprise moment of dissent. (See 7.55pm.)
And spare a thought for my colleague, Rafael Behr. When he suggested that the financial services industry was such a powerful revenue-raiser for the UK that a Labour mayor would not simply be able to bash it (see 8.16pm), I feared he might get lynched. None of the candidates really engaged with his point. But in the full mayoral contest, against a Conservative opponent, the successful Labour candidate will not be able to avoid this problem so easily.
Updated
The panel is summing up.
Polly Toynbee says Labour has a good choice. Labour voters have to think who would best stand up to the Tory candidate, probably Zac Goldsmith.
Rafael Behr says Labour has a fantastic choice. But the themes did sound a bit zone 1, zone 2. He grew up in outer London, he says. There are places like Croydon that are not so Labour.
Tony Travers says it will be hard for Labour to get its message about low pay over, without sound anti business. Some 85% of people in London work in the private sector. And how can the mayor make people feel a bit more empowered? That is important, he says.
And that’s it. The event is over.
I’ll post a summary shortly.
Christian Wolmar says he agrees with Lammy; housing is the key issue. He mentions a worker on his campaign; if we cannot ensure people like Dan can find a home, then London will never thrive.
Gareth Thomas says we need to build more communities. He takes his inspiration from Coin Street community builders. In the Oxo tower, beneath the restaurant, there are five floors of social housing. They set their own rents. He says he would also like to see more credit unions, and a credit union bank. He agrees with Jowell about the Olympics. But it was in the past. London should host a Commonwealth games.
Diane Abbott says the mayor should bring people together. In a reference to David Cameron’s speech today, she says she is wary of anything that stigmatises Muslims.
Neighbourliness
Q: What would you do to make London more neighbourly?
Sadiq Khan says there are some things even the best politician cannot do. But they can help to make a difference. He says he does not accept that London is unfriendly. After 7/7, people predicted a backlash. But it did not happen. Ken Livingstone reminded us London should be united.
Tessa Jowell says she has been talking about one London in her campaign. During the Olympics we saw London as an open city, welcoming people around the world. But we should never forget that some of the unhappiest Londoners are young people, shut out from the opportunities.
David Lammy says the challenge is to keep London a city of mixed communities. If you drive people out through gentrification, then London will lost out. High rents militate against neighbourliness. So the biggest challenge for the next mayor is housing. If people are buying flats off plan from Hong Kong or Singapore, they should pay extra. He says everyone on the panel owns a home worth more than £750,000; his office has checked. The mayor should do something for ordinary Londoners.]
This gets a large round of applause - perhaps the biggest we’ve heard all night.
Gareth Thomas says it is not just a matter for the police; he would like to see the CPS prosecuting more of these offences. He is glad Met officers are now wearing body cameras. Under George Osborne’s cuts, thousands of Met posts will go. That is why London should have power over tax. Londoners did not vote for austerity, he says.
Diane Abbott says, at the top, Met officers take issues like this very seriously. The problem relates to middle ranking officers, she says. She says the pornification culture is creating problems. The average age at which boys are exposed to hardcore pornography is now eight, she says.
Christian Wolmar says the Met is too big. It should be broken up. There should be a force just dealing with London; counter-terrorism should be separate. And there should be more manned stations.
Sexual harassment
Q: What would you do to ensure women are safer on public transport?
Sadiq Khan says he has two daughters; he feels strongly about this. He would tell the Met to make this a priority.
David Lammy says there is a lot that needs to be done to improve the Met. There are many dangers in the home, where people are being sexualised through the internet. Rape, domestic violence and sexual violence is on the increase. We need a Met that reflects the city, but we need more public education too. Assaults against men are an issue too.
Tessa Lammy says only 15% of the Met are BAME. That is completely disproportionate for London. On the Tube, we should stop having posters asking women about being “beach ready”. In the past the Met has not taken rape seriously enough. The incidence of rape is increasing; in some case, that is to do with people being more willing to report it. She says the work that she and Harriet Harman did to persuade the Met to take sexual crime seriously sent “shockwaves” through the force.
Sadiq Khan says corporate social responsibility should not just be a box to be ticked. Finance is all well and good, he says. But we need more tech jobs in London, and more manufacturing jobs. It is important for London to be pro-Europe. Zac Goldsmith, the potential Tory mayor, is anti-Europe.
Christian Wolmar says he likes the idea of a Robin Hood tax. No one has mentioned the Corporation of London. Labour used to be committed to incorporating it into London. He would like that to happen. He went to to see the Corporation recently; they can spend £250m, with little control. He would like to get his hands on that money.
Gareth Thomas says he comes from the Co-op tradition in Labour. He is interested in promoting community shares. There is a need for more transparency, he says. The City should aim to become the most trusted financial centre in the world. And that relies on a better relationship with Londoners, which in turn depends on more investment in things like social housing. The City needs “tough love”. He would like to see the mayor sitting on the Prudential Regulation Authority.
Big business
Q: Would you be willing to buy shares in big businesses and turn up at the AGM to push for change? And do you support the Robin Hood tax?
David Lammy says he supports a financial transaction tax. And he has brought shares in a company and turned up at its AGM to push for change. He did that with Tottenham. He says there is a lot of dirty money flowing through the city. And it is unacceptable for Google to make billions from London, but only pay about £11m in tax. And it is unacceptable for Uber to be running cabs in London, but not paying tax.
Tessa Jowell says she agrees with the point on Uber. That is why she does not have an Uber account. And she says Lammy is right about Russian money coming to his country, from dubious sources, and being deposited in London property. She would do everything she could as London mayor to get HM Revenue and Customs to tackle this.
Diane Abbott jokes that she is not trying to out-left Tessa Jowell on this. The City want to address issues like housing, she says. That happened when Ken Livingstone was mayor. She says Jowell said she worked on stop-and-search for six months; she has worked on that all her life, she says. She says that is what you do when you worry about your son being picked up by the police.
Rafael Behr says none of the candidates mentioned the financial services industry. Yet the mayor of London in the past has found himself becoming an advocate for the City. He says he would be interested to see whether any of these candidates would stand up to the City. The City is an important part of the national economy, he says. He says he hopes that Tessa Jowell is right about settled pay differentials becoming the norm, but he has not seen the evidence for this.
Christian Wolmar says the mayor has limited power. But the mayor could insist that firms that get contracts with London publish information about their pay differentials. And the mayor could only offer contracts to firms paying the living wage.
David Lammy says he pressed Tottenham, the football club in his constituency, to pay the living wage to all their staff. That made a difference, and they are now doing that. The mayor has a bully pulpit, he says. The mayor can and should campaign on this, he says.
Sadiq Khan says the mayor should have the power to set a London living wage. It should be £10 an hour. Paying it improves productivity, he says. He says the current head of Transport for London earns around £650,000. His replacement should earn less, he says. He says he wants to be the most pro-business mayor ever. But he wants to be a living wage mayor too. It is possible to do both, he says.
High pay
Q: Is top pay too high in London? And, if it is, what would you do about it?
Diane Abbott says in her lifetime the multiple between the lowest and the highest paid in a business has widened enormously. She would roll out a London living wage, not just for those employed by London, but in the hope of setting an example too. As for wages at the top, that is something to campaign on. That is a key role for the mayor.
Tessa Jowell says she is comfortable with people being rich if they act as citizens of London. But she is not happy with people buying flats as “gold bars”. She is a trained organiser with London Citizens, she says. She would push for a London minimum wage. In 10 years time it will be odd if a ratio between the highest paid and the lowest paid does not exist. Firms that do stick to a settled high paid/low paid ratio show the most resilience. So this makes good business sense too.
Gareth Thomas says you cannot be comfortable with levels of high pay. He is the only candidate saying London should have the power to set income tax, he says. He wants there to be a referendum on this in September 2016. He thinks London should have the power to cap rents too.
Updated
David Lammy says he would like to set up a process that would enable young people to audit the GLA’s budget. Services for young people have been cut. And there is a spike in knife crime. That is because the organisations that keep young people off the streets are being cut.
Sadiq Khan says it would be the middle class kids who would get involved. He has nothing against that, but he would like to reach out to people on council estates. He has been working with #DareToDream, to get young people involved in his policy making.
Tessa Jowell says she would have a young mayor. But you need these initiatives to make you feel uncomfortable. She has been working with Doreen Lawrence on alternatives to stop and search. They worked with young people, and as a result came up with ideas that she would not previously have considered. She says you need young people beside you a lot; she always had work experience students in her parliamentary office, and learnt a great deal from them.
Young people
Q: How will you involve children and young people in decision making in London? Would you have a young mayor?
Diane Abbott says young mayors in boroughs have been a success. There should be a young London mayor, and a young London assembly too.
Gareth Thomas says it is a great idea. The youth parliament has been a success.
Christian Wolmar says he is slightly sceptical about this. The biggest problem with democracy is that young people do not vote. The general election result would have been very different if young people had voted as heavily as old people. So it is more important to make a bigger drive to get young people to vote. Parties should have youth parties, he says.
Tessa Jowell says the cultural Olympics were a success. And her 10 things do do before you are 10 would encourage children to get better access to the arts.
David Lammy says 30 years ago he was a young Alud Jones. Ilea funded a scholarship for him to sing in the Peterborough Cathedral choir. It was his Billy Elliott moment. We need to encourage the arts. Artists are now leaving London, and going to cities like Berlin instead, he says.
Diane Abbott says fine art is important; she used to drag her son to museums. But she would also like to use the arts and culture to bind people together.
Q: [From someone from the New Direction arts group] Would you support moves to give all children experience of the arts?
Sadiq Khan quotes Oscar Wilde on knowing the price of everything, but the value of nothing. His father, a bus driver, used to make a point of going to art galleries, which were then free. He says in his constituency the Polka theatre gives families the chance to take their children to the theatre. But now it is not just poor families who cannot afford the arts; some middle class families cannot afford theatre either. Quality of life is very important.
Christian Wolmar says all the candidates would support this idea, but finding the funding is difficult. The mayor can steer things in the right direction.
Gareth Thomas says he has a six-month-old daughter. He wants her to grow up as an Arsenal fan, and a Welsh rugby fan. But he wants her to enjoy the arts too. London should bid to be the European city of culture. And that bid should be based on outer London, because that is where cultural events are most under attack. And the best art from young Londoners should be hosted in Buckingham Palace, he says.
David Lammy says he would have 1,000 play streets in his first term. But the issue is wider, he says. Young people are being penalised in many ways, he says. He cites, in particular, the 50% cut to further education colleges. It is important to make London a good place to grow up, he says.
Sadiq Khan says he used to play cricket in the street. He was inspired by the Big Lunch initiative. That was another way of using streets, he says. It led to neighbours meeting for the first time. He would sell off Boris Johnson’s water cannon to fund youth services. But he says, with play space being an issue, he would not sell of parts of the green belt.
Diane Abbott says there are play streets in Hackney. They work well, and they are good for child support too.
Play streets
Next question.
Q: Streets account for 80% of London space, but they are reserved for cars. Would you support a drive to create 10,000 play streets?
Christian Wolmar says this is one of his ideas. In his own street there has been an attempt to block off the street at one end. Streets used to be used for all sorts of things; he would like to bring that back. He thinks 20mph should be the default speed limit. He would use the £30m that Boris Johnson has allocated for the garden bridge for this.
Gareth Thomas says all the candidates are opposed to the garden bridge. He supports the 10,000 play street idea. But how do you fund it? Councils are strapped for cash. So he would bring in a hotel occupancy tax.
Tessa Jowell says today she announced a plan for children’s activities, 10 things do do before they are 10. That would be funded partly by a voluntary charge on hotels.
Updated
Polly Toynbee says it is interesting to hear the candidates pinching each other’s best ideas; that is a good reason for having these hustings.
Tessa Jowell says by 2035 the centre of London should be car free. The only vehicles allowed by then should be electric vehicles. She says she would also like to stop daytime deliveries, something that happened during the Olympics. And she would like to close Oxford Street; over time, that should be extended, to Regent Street and Covent Garden. London should be a walking city. And she would like air pollution monitors at buggy height.
Diane Abbott says air pollution should be a priority. Ordinary people should take ownership of this. In Hackney, she was involved in a project putting solar panels on people’s homes; they got cut-price electricity. There should be a lower emission zone. And she has not changed her mind on a third runway; she has always opposed it, she says. She says she has been a fraction more consistent than some of the other candidates.
Christian Wolmar says one of the reasons he entered the contest was to give it a green edge. He has seen the other candidates moving into his territory. For example, pedestrianising Oxford Street - he first wrote about that in 1998. But it is not just about that. It is about having a different sort of city.
Hugh Muir says Wolmar sounds a bit mayoral; Ken Livingstone used to say if he heard a good idea, he would nick it. (Hugh does a good Ken accent.)
Air pollution
Q: What would you do to tackle air pollution in London?
David Lammy says most pollution is occurs when parents are taking their kids to school. We need to encourage more children to walk to school. If that means more lollipop ladies, so be it. But we need a strict emission zone, and we need to encourage more cycling. And we need to ban HGVs during peak hours.
Sadiq Khan says air quality last year killed 10,000 Londoners. Doctors say some days it is not safe to job in London. That is why he has changed his mind, and does not support a third runway at Heathrow. We need more cycling And we need to pedestrianise Oxford Street. People need to be able to walk to work and cycle to work.
Gareth Thomas says the congestion charge should be refined, so that it is based on emissions. He disagrees with Khan on Heathrow, he says. It is surface transport to Heathrow which poses the problem. We need to encourage more people onto public transport. And he backs more solar energy.
Hugh Muir asks the first question. But I missed the reply because my typing was too loud for the person next to me in the audience.
I’ve found a better spot now.
Hugh Muir is on stage now introducing the six candidates.
And we’ve got three more people on the panel. Two Guardian columnists, Polly Toynbee and Rafael Behr, and Tony Travers, the academic and local government expert.
Hugh Muir takes to the stage #guardianlive pic.twitter.com/GfWTkKuLrd
— Lammy for Mayor (@lammyformayor) July 20, 2015
Updated
At #GuardianLive #Labour mayoral candidate hustings with @wolmarforlondon #londonmayor pic.twitter.com/VqdwvOqhi6
— Lucy Green (@Greenietweets) July 20, 2015
#guardianlive is about to start - don't miss out on what is sure to be a lively debate! pic.twitter.com/aakMrar6NF
— David Lammy (@DavidLammy) July 20, 2015
I’m at the hall in Kings Place where the hustings is about to start. There must be nearly 200 people here. The room is almost full.
Guardian Live are hosting a hustings this evening at Kings Place (where the Guardian is based) for the six candidates seeking the Labour nomination for next year’s London mayoral election.
My colleague Hugh Muir is chairing.
The six candidates are:
Here is my colleague Dave Hill’s account of the first Labour London mayoral hustings. In the piece, Dave also summarises some recent polling.
Jowell’s team is stressing the findings of two new YouGov polls of London voters, one of which was conducted for Prospect. This found that 30% of respondents thought Jowell would make a good mayor, compared with 18% who felt the same way about each of Khan, Lammy and Abbott (Wolmar and Thomas were not included). The other poll, for the Evening Standard, asked a different question: which contender “would be the best Labour candidate”? In this case, Wolmar and Thomas were included. Again, Jowell came top, this time with 15% followed by Khan with 10% and Lammy and Abbott each with 6%. Another question in the same survey sought views on theoretical mayoral showdowns with Goldsmith. If Jowell were his Labour opponent, 35% said they’d prefer her compared with 26% who’d pick the Tory. Asked to imagine Khan taking Goldsmith on, the latter’s score rose to 29% while Khan’s was exactly the same.
All encouraging for Jowell. As YouGov’s Peter Kellner writes, she currently reaches parts of the London electorate that others haven’t yet. A Khan supporter, however, points out that their man has gained on Jowell in the part of the poll for the Standard showing support among all respondents, including “don’t knows”, who defined themselves as Labour supporters. At the end of March, Jowell led Khan by double figures on this measure. In the new poll, she heads him by just three. If that’s a reflection of how the Labour “selectorate” is feeling it could bode well for Khan in the candidate race, the argument goes, and if he won it everything else would change. Well, maybe and maybe not and maybe somewhere in between. And maybe all of the above means nothing much at all. “Don’t knows” and “none of these” figure prominently in both polls. Still all to play for, comrades.
The hustings starts at 7pm. I will be covering it live.
