A couple who hosted a lunch party at which former News International chief Rebekah Brooks was alleged to have talked about how easy it was to hack mobile voicemail messages told the Old Bailey they had no recollection of the conservation.
Rafi Manoukian and his wife Jo hosted an intimate lunch for Eimear Cook, the ex-wife of golfer Colin Montgomerie, and Brooks (then Wade) at their seven-storey Knightbridge home.
Cook told the jury on Monday that at the 2005 lunch, Brooks talked about phone hacking and said it was "ludicrous" celebrities did not know they had to change their pin codes from the factory settings to protect their privacy.
Giving evidence on Tuesday, Rafi Manoukian said he did not remember phone hacking being mentioned. The court heard in a statement to police he said he was "absolutely sure there was no talk of listening to other people's voicemail".
The couple had a large house and it was not impossible he might have left the dining room to fetch his cigarettes or used the rest room, he said. His wife also told the jury she could remember no such conversation.
Manoukian said he first met Cook when she accompanied her former husband to Brunei when he played "the young prince" at a golf match in the early 1990s.
The couple met Brooks around 1997, through the husband of a Sun journalist, he said. Since being introduced, they had "socialised" with Brooks on average four or five times a year, sometimes going on holidays or long weekends abroad.
The lunch was "instigated" by Cook, who was "in a bit of a state about her image being portrayed in a particular way in the press", during her divorce, he said.
"I said Rebekah was a good friend, she was someone in the media and the press and if she [Cook] wanted any help or advice, she could give it to you," he told the court.
His memory of the lunch conversation was of Cook describing her "rocky" marriage and divulging "intimate" details she had not previously shared, the jury heard.
Cook "was concerned the press were not giving the right image of her and she wanted to know how to improve her relationship with the press," he said.
She and Brooks were "exchanging ideas about how she could improve relations with the press," he said. Brooks was doing the couple "a favour" by coming to the lunch, he added.
Jonathan Laidlaw, QC for Brooks, asked Manoukian about his witness statement made to police, in which he described her "as a quiet lady, more of a listener than a talker" and who behaved no differently at that lunch. "Absolutely, yes," replied Manoukian.
Laidlaw said: "You said 'I didn't know you could listen to other people's voicemail messages before this investigation, although I was aware that live phone calls could be bugged by another person." Manoukian agreed.
It was "highly unlikely" he and his wife would both have left the dining table together during the lunch, leaving Cook and Brooks, who did not know each other, on their own, but it was not impossible, he said,
The police officer who interviewed him had noted Manoukian was "absolutely sure there was no talk about listening to other people's voicemails", though it was not impossible he may have left the room at some point. "Correct," he replied.
Jo Manoukian said she received a phone call from Cook saying "we should expect a phone call, or to be got in touch with by police regarding this investigation".
Asked by Andrew Edis QC, for the prosecution, if she had thought she would be asked about a lunch party conversation several years before, she replied: "No, because I did not think what we would be discussing at our lunch party would ever be spoken of again."
She said she still socialised with Brooks at birthday parties or functions. She last saw Brooks at a friend's party in London on 28 April 2012, just three days before police came to take a statement.
The two had talked on the phone, but not met "face-to-face" when it became clear she was to be a prosecution witness, she said.
Though the couple had large rooms, staff and entertained regularly, on the occasion of the lunch the four sat around a small table for eight. "Very modest," remarked the trial judge, Mr Justice Saunders to laughter. "That's not meant to be rude, by the way," he added.
Laidlaw asked her if her recollection of the conversation was that it was about Cook's situation at the time. She replied: 'Yes, because that was the main reason for arranging the lunch."
Referring to her statement, Laidlaw said: "You said 'I do not remember phone hacking being talked about', is that right?" "Yes," she replied.
He added she went on to say she was not sure at the time of the lunch she "even knew what phone hacking was". "That's right," she said.
Brooks, a former editor of the News of the World and the Sun, denies conspiracy to intercept voicemail messages, conspiracy to commit misconduct in public office and conspiracy to pervert the course of justice.
Former News of the World editor Andy Coulson, the paper's former managing editor Stuart Kuttner, and former head of news Ian Edmondson, also deny conspiracy to intercept voicemail messages. Coulson and former News of the World royal editor Clive Goodman also deny conspiracy to commit misconduct in public office. Brooks's husband Charlie, her former PA ,Cheryl Carter, and News International head of security, Mark Hanna, deny conspiracy to pervert the course of justice.
The trial continues
