Comments gremlins are lurking - we'll take a break for some cheese dip, Ignatius-style
Looks like comments are still a little glitchy. Cory has very kindly offered to come back later and answer questions if there’s anyone who does still have one that didn’t get through, please keep trying and you’ll hopefully get an answer.
Meanwhile, special round of applause to Cory and David for sticking around and battling with the gremlins to give us such a great range of answers. It’s been fascinating (if technically frustrating.) Many thanks to both of you. I’m very grateful!
'Flannery O’Connor was a great inspiration to him... he also enjoyed Joseph Heller and Bruce Jay Friedman'
hemingway62 asks:
Who were Toole’s inspirations as a writer and did he dislike Mark Twain as much as Ignatius?
'As far as Toole’s sexuality goes, the simple answer is, I do not know'
Michealmack asks:
Is the ending of the published novel pretty much the ending that John Kennedy Toole wrote ? If not how does it differ? Do you like/rate the ending?
Also, if you’ve time, could you speak about Kennedy Toole’s sexuality. Do you think he was asexual as I’ve read other commentators say? Couldn’t he have been a (really) discreet closet case?!
Guardian contributor As far as I can tell, yes, the ending of the book is as Toole intended it—at least when he sent it off to Gottlieb. I think the ending is brilliant. Nothing is quite resolved. What could be resolved? And his paw, reaching for Myrna’s hair and smelling it…love the ending.
As far as Toole’s sexuality goes, the simple answer is, I do not know. And no one I spoke with who knew him and cared for him deeply (many of whom are gay) indicated they thought he was gay or in the closet. I am hesitant to read into his novel as a way to prove sexual identity. The party scene in the French Quarter was undoubtedly inspired by a gay party in the French Quarter he attended with his friend Nick Polites. While writing the book in the army in Puerto Rico, his company (Company A) was well-known for its “friendliness,” but no one I spoke with from his Company commented on him indicating his sexual preferences one way or another there.
In Butterfly I discuss this at some length only because it seems there is a narrative out there that attempts to explain his suicide as a result of his repressed sexuality. My research suggests that, while possible, the premise is largely unfounded and potentially untrue.
'Thelma Toole is both hero and a kind of villain in this story'
Jericho999 has a question about Thelma Toole:
How do you feel about Mrs Toole? I understand she was quite hard to deal with, as well as wonderfully determined...
Guardian contributor Both are true. Credit is due to her for persevering and getting the manuscript into the hands of Walker Percy. But she is both hero and a kind of villain in this story (no matter how hard she tries to push that role onto Gottlieb. I watched hours of footage of her giving interviews. After about 15minutes I had to take a break. She is so intense and has a way of sucking the energy out of you. And this is just me watching a video from the early 80s. I imagine living with her eventually became insufferable. Pair that with a senile father relegated to dark backroom, you have a home environment that would be toxic to anyone's health.
'There were other women in Toole's life. In fact, you could say there was always a woman in his life'
ihate2pointout asks:
How would you describe Toole’s relationship with women? Were there any women in his life other than his mother?
Guardian contributor Yes, there were other women in his life. In fact, you could say there was always a woman in his life. One he almost proposed to, but in the end it did not work out and she has decided to keep much of their relationship private. I did my best to get her to speak with me. The nature of the relationships, how intimate or intense they were…there are few details. He enjoyed dating, but bringing girls home to meet his mother was always an issue. Few women were good enough for her son. He also had a deep-seeded sense that he had to succeed—he had to achieve greatness, not as a husband or father, but as a writer. This goal, I think, superseded all others and influenced his personal relationships as well.
David has these two little facts to share: one about the possible inspiration behind the Levys...
Not sure about Lana Lee, but rumor has it that Levy Pants was inspired by the Haspel family, the inventors of the seersucker suit. JKT worked for a time in the Haspel factory while attending Tulane University.
... and a surprising connection between actor Cary Elwes and the author he is playing in the film of Butterfly in the Typewriter:
I recently met Cary Elwes on the set of a friend's film. He told me he was actually related to Mr. Amis! Perfect casting if I may say so.
'One of Toole’s army buddies referred to Thelma Toole as a “splendid monster.”'
Kungfulil wants to know:
Could you tell us about Toole’s mother? She was obviously outraged at the lack of attention ACOD received. Did she have any input in the writing of the book?
Guardian contributor Toole’s mother is a fascinating character, although she has a way of zapping the energy from you if you spend enough time watching her. I can’t imagine what it was like living with her. One of Toole’s army buddies referred to her as a “splendid monster.” At the same time, we would not have the novel if it were not for her.
There is no indication she had any influence over the novel. In fact, I think Toole needed to be away from her and his city in order to write the novel.
She did however demand that the novel be published as is. She did not want a single comma touched. Of course, nobody knows where the original manuscript is, as I mentioned above.
Whatever her faults, she was a steward to his novel in the last years of her life, even though she eventually took on the role of Queen Mother of the novel.
philipphilip99 asks:
Is there any evidence that the author planned a sequel that would look at Ignatius and Myrna’s life together?
Guardian contributor The way the novel ends certainly leaves it open to that possibility. If he had considered it, he kept the possibility to himself. Skeptics note that picaresque novels are inherently difficult to end because the structure of the work pushes towards another episode. At one point he thought he was on the brink of literary greatness and perhaps one contract could have led to another. However, in the end he saw himself as a failure. When he tucked away the manuscript he gave up on it, possible sequels and all.
After a brief technical glitch, we’re back... but on a high, as judgeDAmNationAgain has two great questions after reading Butterfly in the Typewriter:
1. Although Toole himself said the Levy couple were two of the characters not drawn from real life, I wonder if perhaps they were inspired by his own parents (the lazy, non-achieving husband and bossy, controlling wife with multiple projects of her own who is always on his case)? This is more of a musing than a question, but I wonder what your take on it would be...
2. The way the various plot threads are all tied together, not just at the very end but throughout the book when you see different strands gradually coming together (such as when George unwittingly steals Officer Mancuso’s copy of Boethius and gives it to Lana for her photographs) - reminded me very much of a Jeeves novel. I know that Toole was a great admirer of Waugh, but do you know if he also read Wodehouse or other English authors in a similar vein?
Guardian contributor Thanks for reading Butterfly!
1. It is entirely possible some of the characters are pulled from multiple people he encountered. A name here, blended with a personality trait over there. Honestly, spend enough time watching interviews of Thelma Toole and it seems Ignatius and Thelma have more in common than anyone else in the novel.
As far as his father goes, while writing the novel he expressed great sympathy for him, as he suffered from shingles, as well as whatever psychological disorder had relegated him to the backroom of their home, prohibited from meeting any guests.
2. Aside from Waugh, he did read Wodehouse and Kingsley Amis. I think scholars could do more on exploring this connection between Dunces and British and European literary humor. Scholars have yet to fully tap it.
'For Toole, everything was up for mockery. Nothing was beyond the scope of satire'
catburglar asks:
Toole and Ignatius Reilly are both Irish-American, members of a group that achieved spectacular success assimilating into the mid-century US mainstream -- outwardly, at least. But as the stories of Toole, Ignatius, and Randle P. McMurphy suggest integration with the larger culture was not smooth or without cost. How did being Irish-American shape the character and author? Is the book a story of assimilation gone awry?
Ignatius’ intellectual preoccupations read like a hilarious sendup of the Southern Agrarians and English Department neo-medievalist nostalgia -- Toole must have been an outrageous hoot about this at parties. What intellectual or political scores was he settling?
Guardian contributor A fascinating question that I had never considered. If the novel was set in any other city in the U.S. I may say yes, but New Orleans is a city where assimilation goes against the grain. It is a patchwork city of various cultures that, historically, can be downright tribal. One of the reasons New Orleans is so colorful is because the French, the Irish, the Italians resisted assimilation.I suppose you could say that Ignatius fails to assimilate to modernity, or perhaps New Orleans is a city gone awry.
I never read Dunces as a sharp political or intellectual commentary. Here in the states, both political parties love to use the book title for their own purposes. I think for Toole everything was up for mockery. Nothing was beyond the scope of satire.
A little bit of background about how Cory’s story of Toole’s short life, Butterfly in the Typewriter, came to be adapted as a film:
Guardian contributor One of the interesting experiences in working on this project is the way it has brought people together in ways that seem beyond coincidence. This energy around the story started long before I became involved, from Walker Percy to Grove Press to the novel being shared on the beaches of Barcelona. Perhaps you all would like to know the story of how David DuBos stumbled on this story as well?
I discovered Cory's wonderful book on JKT while seeking shelter from a storm in, believe it or not, a record store. In the back of the store they had a small corner with a couple of bookcases. On one shelf entitled "Books about Louisiana" was Cory's book. I picked it up and started reading just to kill time until the storm blew over. I ended up staying nearly 2 hours and reading about 8 chapters. I took the book home that night, read it all the way through, emailed Cory the next day asking about the rights. Three months later, I optioned the book and wrote the script. It's been quite a journey.
sam also has a question about the casting of Butterfly in the Typewriter:
Any casting we should know about alongside Susan Sarandon?
(Susan Sarandon is playing Thelma Toole - there is a cast list on IMDB if you are interested)
Thomas Mann from Me and Earl and the Dying Girl (and other films) will play JKT. Diane Kruger will play Pat Rickels, the teacher from Lafayette that he was smitten with. We are in talks with an actor for Walker Percy. Can't divulge who just yet until we have him signed. But he's an A-lister.
(Cary Elwes is playing Kingsley Amis, a little fact that has tickled everyone on the Guardian books desk)
'Toole just couldn’t figure out how to reign Ignatius in'
MosquitoDragon says:
This is probably something you treat in your biography, so apologies for not having read that yet, but I was wondering what exactly was Toole’s reaction to Gottlieb’s feedback on his manuscript? It seems as though Gottlieb saw great potential in it, but rather than publishing it, he tried and failed to influence Toole to develop it further. Why didn’t Toole listen to him? Did he just fundamentally disagree with Gottlieb’s view (worldview!) or did he feel Gottlieb just didn’t understand the kind of book he wanted to write? Or might it just have been an ego thing and he refused to consider any kind of constructive criticism?
Guardian contributor Fortunately, you can read the correspondence between Toole and Gottlieb in Butterfly, many thanks to Gottlieb for giving permission. It is clear Toole was receptive to Gottlieb’s criticisms but did not know how to address them, perhaps because they were so vague. I think Toole fundamentally disagreed with Gottlieb on the issue of there not being any “point” to the novel. But he acknowledged that Ignatius was running rampant over the novel. He just couldn’t figure out how to reign him in.
But if we want to understand the dynamic between Toole’s response to Gottlieb, we have to understand how his mother responded to Gottlieb. I have always been struck by the story of Toole’s friends coming to visit and his mother reading aloud Gottlieb’s letters to them with her son sitting on the couch. She would then rail against the idiocy of Gottlieb. Having your mother perform a harsh or demoralizing critique in front of your friends, the words echoing in your own home, it must have been mortifying.
In the end, Gottlieb left the door open to Toole. He suggested working on another book and sending that to him. Gottlieb saw Toole’s talent. It just needed refining, in his view.
But Toole eventually came to see his characters as somewhat real, perhaps more real than the actual people in his life. Emily Dickinson referred to her poems as her Little Flowers. They were creations. They had grown from her…a part of her. I think Toole felt the same about his characters and refused (like Dickinson) to alter them for the whims of the literary marketplace.
'Toole is treated as the literary equivalent of James Dean overseas in some countries'
Our very own Sam has a question:
I was wondering if you could share any opinions you have about how the legend of Toole’s personal tragedy helped make the book such a big seller when it came out in 1980... And also, more speculatively, whether we’d still be reading Dunces if it had come out in the 1960s instead, while Toole was still alive.
Sam, this is a question that Cory would have more insight than I would. However, there's no question that the "Toole Legend" is attributable, in part, to his untimely demise. It's the "James Dean" factor. Cory can elaborate more on his Madrid trip where there seemed to be an abundance of young people fascinated by Toole. He is treated as the literary equivalent of James Dean overseas in some countries.
Guardian contributor In the foreword, Percy assured his tragedy was tied to the novel. In doing so, he directed early reviewers to in some way merge the two. And once it one the Pulitzer reviewers scrambled to figure out who this guy was, so they filled in the gaps with a false narrative that sounded good. Writer, overcome with dejection, kills himself.
Interestingly, that did not compel the international interest. I think the widespread popularity of the novel in the Spanish speaking world testifies to its literary merit. The novel can stand on its own, outside of the author's tragedy.
'I don't think CoD would make a good film, but perhaps a better limited series on HBO'
David DuBos, who is directing the film of Butterfly in the Typewriter, has this to say in reply to Fourpaws’s earlier question about whether the long-awaited cinematic adaptation of A Confederacy of Dunces is “cursed”:
Well, done here in New Orleans, we are a mighty superstitious lot so being cursed is par for the course sometimes. However, in the case of CoD, there have been some untimely deaths associated with the actors wanting or attached to playing Ignatius. John Belushi, Chris Farley, John Candy, Philip Seymour Hoffman...However, the big problem with CoD as a film is the amount of writers, producers, directors over the years who have been attached and the amount of money that would have to be paid to them if the film version ever kicks into gear. "Development money" it's called. I understand it could be very expensive just to get it up and running. That said, I don't think CoD would make a good film, but perhaps a better limited series on HBO.
'I suspect the original manuscript will be re-“discovered” one day'
Swelter asks:
Is the published version of A Confederacy of Dunces essentially the manuscript that Toole originally submitted to Simon and Schuster? If not, how much does it differ? When and under whose supervision were any changes made?
Guardian contributor I desperately tried to gain real clarity on this issue. You can read about my hunt for the manuscript here:
To date, no one knows for sure where the original manuscript is located…or if it even exists anymore. But Thelma’s instructions were clear. She rejected any editorial changes suggested. So I am fairly certain the edition we have with us today is essentially “the original.” But this gets more complicated because he made changes in response to Gottlieb. Where those changes are, what they were and if those changes were incorporated into the present version or discarded is unknown. Thelma claimed the edition we have is untainted by the hands of Gottlieb. Still, scholars would prefer to see evidence of these manuscript versions.
I suspect the manuscript will be re-“discovered” one day.
'Toole had a sense of the emerging change in race relations, but he was also very much an Uptown boy'
ihate2pointout says:
Many African-American characters written during that era were often either caricatures or portrayed as needing a white saviour. I found it refreshing reading Jones’s character who was intelligent and the book was self-aware about the African-American struggle in some ways. Could you talk about any encounters or experiences Toole had with the community?
Guardian contributor I can’t say I found specific cases or detailed encounters with the African-American community. In Butterfly I discuss how he spent many hours of this adolescence roaming through the city with his best friends, observing characters in various neighborhoods and putting together skits based on those characters.
He also taught at one of the first racially integrated colleges in Louisiana. Although, go deep enough into Cajun country…nobody cares much about race when you are all trying to survive in a swamp.
Toole had a sense of the emerging change in race relations, but he was also very much an Uptown boy. His theatrical upbringing included at least one performance where he appeared in blackface. Of course, he had little choice in the matter at that age. As his friend said, Toole was for justice, but he was also for law and order. The late 60s were likely a troubling time for him and not just because of his manuscript.
An interesting bit of trivia. The publisher of the Spanish edition of CoD told me when they were translating the novel Burma Jones presented a unique problem. Spanish readers did not have the cultural reference to race relations in the American South. Someone came up with the idea to have Burma Jones speak in Spanish with a Caribbean dialect. It worked well for Spanish readers (who, in my experience, may surpass Americans in their love of this novel). But I do wonder if in the translation Burma Jones became even more of a caricature than in the original.
I just posted a picture on the Butterfly Facebook page of him exiting an airplane. To his right is a man whose image always reminded me of Burma Jones. I guess it's the sunglasses. Whoa!
https://www.facebook.com/Butterfly-in-the-Typewriter-330658430287915/
'I don't think there is a curse over the A Confederacy of Dunces film'
Fourpaws asks:
Hi Cory, did Toole write anything else that is unpublished?
Do you think he would have been more successful as a playwright rather than a novelist? And why do you think Confederacy of Dunces has never been turned into a film?
Good luck with your film. Look forward to seeing it.
Guardian contributor At Tulane there are some unpublished poems (one of which inspired the title of my book) and short stories. I give a synopsis of them in Butterfly.
His mother rammed theater, or as she would say, “The Dramatic Arts,” down his throat at a young age. According to his mother, he was to be the star and everyone must come to recognize that reality. I think he sought creative outlets, but wanted to stay away from theater. So he gravitated to literature and, for a time, drawing comics.
The history of CoD the movie is complicated. I do not think there is a curse over it. I do think adapting the novel would be incredibly difficult. Fortunately, David DuBos, who wrote and will direct Butterfly is here with us, so he may have some thoughts to share on this topic.
Guardian contributor Hello Everyone! Happy to be here and it looks like you all have some great questions already. As Thelma Toole once commented upon seeing the British edition of Dunces, “Look at that! Oh, the class of the English!”
If you have any questions about the film adaptation of Butterfly (or film in general), David DuBos, the director and writer of Butterfly the movie is with us as well.
And we're live!
Hi everyone!
Thanks for all the questions. Great crop already... Cory is standing by and ready to answer.
I believe that writer and director of the film Butterfly in the Typewriter, David DuBos may join us too - so this is a also a fantastic opportunity to ask about what promises to be a fascinating film.
On Friday 30 June at 1pm (BST), Cory MacLauchlin will be joining us to discuss his biography of John Kennedy Toole, Butterfly in the Typewriter.
His book tells a story almost as fantastical as A Confederacy of Dunces. It’s a compelling and sympathetic portrait of Toole’s larger than life personality, his complicated relationship with his mother, his fantastic academic ability, his bright bursts of creativity, his tragic death and then the posthumous success of his novel. It’s also an important corrective to many of the myths that have grown up since Toole’s death about his private life and his initial failure to find a publisher.
MacLauchlin’s achievement is all the more impressive given the challenges he faced isn writing the book. As he explains in an interview with Wales Arts Review, even the material he had to work with was unusual:
“The Toole papers are [his mother] Thelma’s version of the story. It’s clear she kept things that she wanted, like her dental bridge and quirky things like that. You think, ‘You destroyed your son’s suicide note but you think researchers want to see your dental bridge?’ I don’t get it. Tracking down people who knew him was helpful too, though many of them, even since working on the book, have passed.”
In the same interview, Cory also provides fascinating background about Hurricane Katrina, New Orleans and the political background to writing a book so embedded in one of the US’s most fascinating cities.
As if that isn’t enough to ask about, you might also be interested to know that The Butterfly in the Typewriter is going to be made into a film starring Susan Sarandon.
Updated
He obviously studied the classics of literature, but also delved deeper into satire than most English majors, as evident in his master’s thesis on John Lyly at Columbia. It was titled, ““Lyly’s Treatment of Women: The Beginnings of ‘Higher’ Comedy in England.”
I don’t think we could have Ignatius without Don Quixote or Falstaff. For modern writers, Flannery O’Connor was a great inspiration to him but he also enjoyed the works of Joseph Heller and Bruce Jay Friedman (Stern and Mother’s Kisses). But while literary inspiration provides a backbone to his work, his greatest source of inspiration came from the people of his city. The characters in Dunces are drawn from people he knew and carefully observed.
I never encountered any expression of disdain towards Twain in his papers or interviews. I think it was his way to show the sophisticated Ignatius railing against an icon of lowly American literary humor—all the while, completely comfortable in his devotion to cheese dip and Dr. Nut. For Toole, the human condition is filled with hilarious contradictions, many of which culminate in Ignatius. And of course, what Toole did (record an American City using the dialect of the people) is similar to what Twain did as well.