Mark on Margaret
First impressions?
She’s friendly. There were a nervous first few moments, but after that we seemed to rub along reasonably well. Relaxed, I thought.
What did you talk about?
Clamping down on the tax dodgers, immigration, our family backgrounds. I was particularly interested that she’s so committed to staying on, when so many people leave politics after a short period. She seems keen on making a difference.
What did you agree on?
The need for some serious prosecutions and jail time for people evading tax. If you want to change behaviour, you’ve got to increase the risk to rich people of potentially evading tax.
What did you disagree on?
Immigration. Politely. I emphasised that what my party believes in is a non-discriminatory immigration system, where we apply the same rules to people inside the European Union as we do to people from outside. Margaret seemed to believe that you couldn’t have control over numbers, and that if you clamped down on one area, it would just lead to people coming in from another. I don’t think that’s right. I think we can have immigration control in the EU. But I also think some people from outside the EU are treated too harshly, almost in an inhumane way.
I had a Sikh guy who came to my surgery who wanted to marry the woman he loved, who was a graduate earning good money. She was from India. He was a medical student, but because in that particular year he wasn’t earning above the Conservative minimum, she wasn’t allowed to move to the country to marry him. I’d like to see us be more humane on some of those non-EU categories, while restricting unskilled immigration from the EU. As I said to Margaret, I’d like to ensure immigration is a positive word once again.
Any awkward moments?
Yes, I tried to ask why she was staying in politics when others were leaving, and didn’t want to refer to her age. I was struck by her enthusiasm for politics, and I was trying to tease out why that was different from other people who are very happy to retire. I don’t want to see people through the prism of age, but it’s extraordinary when you see her at the public accounts committee, how much belief and drive she has.
Would you introduce her to friends and colleagues?
I’d be happy to. Margaret gets on with all sorts of people – I think she’d get on with some of my friends.
Describe her politics in three words:
Fairness, tolerance, optimism.
What do you think she made of you?
I really don’t know, actually.
Would you form a coalition?
We don’t want to form a coalition. We might support a government in return for a free, fair and early referendum on the EU, but at the moment there doesn’t seem to be any prospect of Labour offering that.
If you could change one thing about the date, what would it be?
I’d like to have discussed a broader range of issues. We spoke about family, which is interesting. We spoke quite a lot about immigration, but I think there might have been more common ground over the role of parliament and holding ministers to account.
Marks out of 10?
8.
Would you meet again?
I hope so. It depends whether I’m re-elected in May.
Margaret on Mark
First impressions?
More confident than I thought he’d be. When I’ve seen him before, I’ve always thought he was a bit awkward. He was more open and direct than I expected.
What did you talk about?
Immigration, of course. I’m an immigrant, and he’s trying to control immigration. I represent a seat in Barking where I’ve had to tackle the impact of immigration with the rise of the BNP and Nick Griffin – it’s the most important political fight I’ve had in my life. I think I understand the response of white working-class communities to the change.
We talked about Europe. I hadn’t appreciated that was the driving force in his politics, which seems to me so odd. My driving force is equality: I see everything through that prism. And that’s a value. The idea that getting out of Europe is an issue or value that drives your politics is a huge difference between us.
He is an immigrant as well, but says he doesn’t see the Irish as immigrants. Think of Camden in the 1960s, for heaven’s sake, and all the Irish jokes, and “No blacks, no Irish”. Isn’t that interesting? My father was German-Jewish and had a very heavy German accent, and I remember going home with a black boyfriend and being lambasted by my parents. I’ve grown up with the notion that immigrants very quickly become settled and turn their anger and hostility on the following wave. I get that in Barking.
What did you agree on?
Tax. He shares with me the horror that the tax authorities aren’t tough enough on people who deliberately avoid or appear to be involved in aggressive evasion. I think we would have agreed, though there wasn’t much time to discuss it, on independently minded parliamentarians and the non-importance of toeing the party line.
What did you disagree on?
Europe and immigration.
Would you introduce Mark to your colleagues and friends?
We found that we were brought up in south London in the same sort of area. He grew up in Eltham, I grew up in Orpington. But really, he wouldn’t fit into my circle.
Any awkward moments?
I didn’t feel any. But I never feel really awkward, so that’s probably me rather than the reality.
Describe his politics in three words:
Tunnel vision, anti-European.
What did you think he made of you?
I have no idea. He probably likes the work I do and my approach to it. But he probably thinks that, underneath it all, I’m a loony lefty. An ageing, commie lefty.
Would you form a coalition?
I couldn’t. The whole issue of immigration is so much at the heart of my political ideology that a party that is hostile to immigrants in any way... I just couldn’t do it.
If you could change one thing about the date, what would it be?
Actually, more time. I felt I was just starting to get to know him.
Marks out of 10?
He wouldn’t be my natural friend – we don’t share a lot in values – but he’s very civil and quite open. But I don’t want to mark him, no.
Would you meet again?
We will. I’m up for talking to anybody and everybody. Politics for me is about always widening the base.
• Interviews by Simon Hattenstone.
