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Daily Mirror
Daily Mirror
Sport
Mark Jones

Pep Guardiola takes on Man Utd and Liverpool icons in fierce new debate after trophy glory

Pep Guardiola's almost annual reunion with the Premier League trophy came on Sunday, but he'll already have his eye on what is to come.

After Manchester City wrapped up a fifth league title in the past six seasons, they have finals of the FA Cup and Champions League on the horizon as they bid to become the first team since Sir Alex Ferguson's Manchester United vintage of 1999 to win all three.

Ferguson is still seen by many as the greatest manager of all-time, but if Guardiola were to echo his greatest achievement then could the City boss be seen in that manner?

We asked our Mirror Football team what they think.

John Cross

Pep Guardiola is the greatest manager of his generation in my eyes.

But, sorry to be a killjoy on this one, I also think it’s impossible to compare between generations and eras because football changes so much.

The reason I love Guardiola so much is the style and football he produces. Not just at Manchester City but at Barcelona and Bayern Munich.

He is a genius. He makes you think about the game differently. Look at what he’s done with inverted full backs. He almost plays with wing halves and inside forwards. He’s taken the best of the past and reinvented football.

Guardiola has won the Premier League in five of the past six seasons (Getty Images)

And to win in an era when football is faster, better and more demanding is truly remarkable. I think that’s why he’s the best but, at the same time, you can’t compare.

Sir Alex Ferguson is the king of man managers because he built teams at Aberdeen (the miracle of beating Real Madrid in a European final) and consistent success at Manchester United including a Treble.

But we’re only not talking about Liverpool because we don’t live in that era. So get your history books out and see what Bill Shankly did with centre halves after losing to Red Star Belgrade which was taken on by Bob Paisley and that club dominated for the best part of 20 years. Twenty years!!!

Then there’s Herbert Chapman, Jock Stein, Arsene Wenger, Jose Mourinho who, in my view, are in the next bracket.

But Guardiola is the king of today. Yes, the charges hang over Man City. But without the individual, they wouldn’t have this team's success anyway.

Tom Blow

Pep Guardiola will undoubtedly be remembered as one of the greatest managers of all time. But the greatest? Not for me.

To become the greatest, Guardiola needs to join a club with more limited resources and achieve success. That is what Sir Alex Ferguson did at Aberdeen.

Before moving to Manchester United, Ferguson won the Cup Winners' Cup - a now defunct European competition - with the unfashionable Scottish club in 1983.

Remarkably, Ferguson's Aberdeen defeated Real Madrid (yes, Real Madrid) in the final. They also knocked out Bayern Munich in the quarter-finals before beating Hamburg to win the European Super Cup.

Guardiola needs to do something unbelievable to be remembered as the greatest manager of all time.

Darren Lewis

This one is very simple: No.

He has undoubtedly been transformative for the English game and has produced a side oozing consistency, quality and a level of entertainment not seen in the Premier League since Manchester United’s serial thrillers.

But come back and talk to me when he has won 13 Premier League titles. When he has dominated English football for two and a half decades.

Sir Alex Ferguson's achievements mark him out as a legend (BRADLEY ORMESHER)

Sir Alex saw off the challenge of Arsene Wenger and his Invincibles. Reinvented himself and reinvigorated his squad to face down the challenge of Jose Mourinho’s Chelsea Incredibles. United have been a shell of themselves since his departure, despite spending a comparable amount of money to City.

Pep deserves his place, absolutely, in the pantheon of Premier League giants. But Sir Alex is still the Don.

Is Pep Guardiola the greatest manager of all-time? Have your say in the comments section

Neil Moxley

Yes. But it would strengthen the argument still further if he were to win the Champions League with Manchester City.

Football has evolved from the days when the likes of Bill Shankly and Brian Clough ruled supreme.

There are data analysts, sports' scientists, nutritionists, recruitment teams all providing back-up at the biggest clubs.

The margins of victory are becoming slimmer. Rivals pore over every move.

Set against this backdrop, Guardiola's legacy - as he himself said last week - is secure.

You can't be successful for so long in three of the most high-pressure jobs on the planet and not be considered one of the greats.

Guardiola has changed the game with City (AFP via Getty Images)

Plus, he has re-defined the game.

How many teams try to play like Barcelona and now Manchester City? All of them are wannabes, even Arsenal took his side-kick, Mikel Arteta, in the hope he might re-create at the Emirates what his mentor had done at the Etihad.

If he can land the Champions League with Manchester City, that means he has equalled Mourinho's feat with Porto and Inter Milan of winning it with two different clubs.

Mourinho, Carlo Ancelotti and Antonio Conte are great coaches - but none have left a mark on the face of football like Guardiola has.

Andy Dunn

Winning the treble would be one of the greatest managerial achievements of all time but would not make Pep Guardiola the greatest manager of all time.

He would not even be the greatest this country has seen. Clearly, Sir Alex Ferguson - for his achievements over two and a half decades - lays claim to that title but do not forget Bob Paisley.

Bizarrely, so many people do just that, but consider this.

Bob Paisley had an extraordinary record of success at Liverpool (Bob Thomas Sports Photography via Getty Images)

Paisley managed Liverpool for nine seasons and won SIX league titles and THREE European Cups, not to mention a UEFA Cup and three League Cups.

He might not have ranted and raved on the touchline but he was some manager.

Pep is a great but not THE greatest and, of course, his club has to fight charges of financial fair play.

If guilty, there will be an asterisk against some of Guardiola’s achievements but such is the beauty of his football, it will leave barely a scratch on his legacy.

Darren Wells

The fact Pep Guardiola is even being considered alongside the likes of Sir Alex Ferguson and Carlo Ancelotti tells you he deserves his place among the greats.

He has changed the game with his unique and continually innovative brand of football, arguably more so than any manager in the modern era.

His Barcelona team is the best we've seen in the last few decades at least, while this Manchester City side are breaking records with ease. If they land the Treble he HAS to be considered as one of the best in a field of few, but the notion that achievement places him above all others is flawed.

Hansi Flick won the Treble with Bayern Munich three years ago while Luis Enrique won the Treble after Pep's success at Barca - should they be up there as well?

Yes he's done it twice, which is incredible. But Guardiola had some of the world's best stars at Barcelona and has untold resources at City - take nothing away from him, he still has to piece them together to create the magic they have on the pitch, not all managers could do the same.

City's success can now be considered a period of dominance that only looks set to continue, and when Guardiola has finished, he could well be out in front as the best of all time - maybe... but not just yet.

Sam Meade

Treble or no treble, he's already the greatest. Guardiola has transcended football, modernised the game and all whilst winning with ruthless efficiency.

Ever since he rocked up at Barcelona, he's combined relentlessness with beauty. We watch a level of football that we've never seen before and in the process his teams regularly pick up 90 plus points, often rendering the competition redundant.

His willingness to move to different environments and embed his own philosophy is a credit to him as a coach and an individual. Note that it his teams who bend to his ways, not the other way round. Pragmatism doesn't exist, his way works and he will make players see that, all whilst upping their level.

Whilst he's had some phenomenal players, it is no coincidence that they've all had their peaks whilst working under the Catalan. Xavi, Lionel Messi and Andres Iniesta are among those to laud Guardiola's influence. And for those who want to state that Guardiola is gifted phenomenal players, just remember those players endured trophyless seasons before and after him - but not with him.

Lionel Messi thrived under Guardiola at Barcelona (AFP/Getty Images)



Ferguson will forever be held as the barometer, some cannot fathom that he won't always be No 1, but the Scot was schooled by Guardiola, not once, but twice. The Catalan has smashed the majority of his records and, should he achieve the treble, there will be few questions to answer.

Ferguson won 16 league titles in 33 years, Guardiola now has 11 in 14 years - let's see how those numbers look when he calls time on his career, if it is numbers that you base your opinion on, because based on what you see with your eyes, there isn't a debate.

David McDonnell

Quite simply, No.

Guardiola's Manchester City side play the most aesthetically-pleasing football this country has ever seen, better than the swashbuckling style of Sir Alex Ferguson's Manchester United sides, the cultured approach of Arsene Wenger's Arsenal teams or the blunt belligerence of Jose Mourinho's first Chelsea incarnation.

In addition, the points haul City have now established as the requisite for being champions - averaging 93 over his five title triumphs - is at a different level to the totals Ferguson or Wenger's sides reached.

Mourinho's Chelsea averaged the same over his first two Premier League title wins, but they did not play with the same artistry and flair as Guardiola's City.

Ferguson came up against Guardiola in two Champions League finals (AFP/Getty Images)

Guardiola is unquestionably the greatest manager of his era, his rise coinciding with the end of Ferguson's glittering career, not least with Barcelona's Champions League final wins over United in 2009 and 2011.

Until he comes close to Ferguson's remarkable haul of 13 Premier League titles - which is highly unlikely - he cannot be considered on a par with the peerless former United boss.

Moreover, Guardiola and City's achievements hang under a dark cloud of suspicion, namely the 115 charges of breaking the Premier League's financial fair play rules between 2009 and 2018. Until there is a resolution to that investigation, doubts will remain over the validity and integrity of City's success under billionaire owner Sheikh Mansour.

Josh O'Brien

It is quickly becoming the most difficult debate to have in football.

Different generations of fans will have different answers, but for me Pep Guardiola is already the greatest manager of all time, treble or not.

The recent 4-0 win over Real Madrid highlighted all that is beautiful about Guardiola's football philosophy. The sheer relentlessness, wave after wave of carefully crafted sky blue attack - it's a sight we've been lucky enough to see on these shores for seven years now.

Whether it be Barcelona, Bayern or indeed City, his obsession with the finest of details has helped produce some of the most sensational football in the sport's history.

This is not to ignore the troubling allegations that hang over City's recent success, but to simply highlight how Guardiola's tactical genius and constant innovation is unlike anything we've witnessed in modern football.

Mike Walters

No.

Maybe he has assembled the finest team, and winning machine, we've ever seen in English football.

But did Pep Guardiola prepare for greatness by winning a trophy in Europe and smashing the Old Firm's monopoly in Scotland with unfashionable Aberdeen, which was arguably Sir Alex Ferguson's greatest single achievement? Nope.

Did Barcelona have to wait 26 years to win La Liga before Pep came along and broke the spell, which was what Fergie did at Manchester United? Nope.

Has Pep won the Treble yet? Nope - there are still two hurdles for him to clear. The smart money says he will clean up, but it's not done yet.

City are facing 115 Premier League financial charges (Getty Images)

And five titles in six seasons is a tremendous feat, but has Guardiola's spending power ever dipped below colossal/exorbitant/obscene? Nope.

Oh, and that's not just an elephant in the room - it's Dumbo and a whole pachyderm herd.

Those 115 Premier League charges of financial jiggery-pokery are still on the table. It would be a shame if Manchester City had to hand back their trophies and Watford were declared 2019 FA Cup winners.

That Guardiola's teams play scintillating football has never been in doubt. But if greatness is connected to resources, as it should be, after spending £1 billion on new players he's entitled to be camping at the Premier League summit most years.

Is Pep Guardiola the greatest manager of all-time? Have your say in the comments section

Daniel Orme

There is simply no doubting Guardiola any more. The Catalan has revolutionised football and continually displayed a ravenous hunger for trophies throughout his career - something that has continued with Man City.

A treble come the end of the campaign would only underline that even further. One thing that needs to be noted is that it has been done before though by the great Sir Alex Ferguson.

The Scottish manager created a dynasty across the city at Old Trafford, claiming 38 major trophies in the process. Guardiola is closing in on that number and would get even closer with a treble.

One aspect that also counts against him is that his former sides have continued to claim silverware whilst Old Trafford fell into a malaise immediately after Ferguson’s departure - another clear indication of the genius that prowled the touchline before his retirement in 2013.

That is certainly a label that can be attributed to Guardiola but he must match Ferguson’s trophy record to even be compared to the former Red Devils’ boss.

Mark Jones

Wherever there's a debate like this I always think about a brilliant piece I read once about Roy Keane analysing a goal Liverpool scored after 15 seconds of a game against Huddersfield in 2019.

Keane tore into the Terriers midfielder Jon Stankovic, who had received the ball from his goalkeeper Jonas Lossl on the edge of his own box and got caught on it by Naby Keita. The Liverpool midfielder then passed to Mo Salah, who passed it back to Keita, who scored.

Flying into his fit of rage, Keane couldn't believe that Stankovic had lost the ball like he had, stating that he'd have never done such a thing. Well of course he wouldn't, because he wouldn't have received the ball there from his goalkeeper against one of the best pressing teams in the world in the first place.

Guardiola learned under Cruyff at Barcelona (BPI/REX/Shutterstock)

The point is, football changes, styles change, and Pep Guardiola is undoubtedly one of the people who are responsible for that change. But he in turn was influenced by the genius of Johan Cruyff at Barcelona, who in turn was inspired by Renus Michels at Ajax, Barca and the Dutch national team.

Michels, Cruyff, Arrigo Sacchi, Sir Alex Ferguson, Bob Paisley. All are greats of the game who deserve their place in the annals of football history due to styles they instilled and trophies they won. Guardiola does too.

But the greatest of all-time? It is simply impossible to compare across eras.

What you can see are the trophies he's winning in the here and now, and the styles he is influencing around the rest of the football world.

That's legacy, and that lasts.

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