In this special episode of NL Hafta, Abhinandan Sekhri, Manisha Pande, Raman Kirpal, Anand Vardhan and Jayashree Arunachalam catch up on all the letters – over 45 of them – that we’ve received from subscribers.
Hafta letters: India-Pakistan, podcast ideas, team feedback, thoughts on patriotism
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Timecodes
00:00:00 - Introductions
00:02:30 - Subscriber letters
1:41:30 - Recommendations
Recommendations
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Manisha: [00:00:00] This is a News Laundry podcast, and you're listening to NL Hafta,
Abhinandan: Andre Apna, Lagan News, laundry, APNA Hafta, our News Laundry subscribers, APNA subscribers, take Kabinet. Jte. Welcome to NL Hafta. Subscribers take, this is the new format as we have come up with after much deliberation discussion, including feedback from you just to tell you what this is, because Hafta is anything from one out 10 minutes to two hours long.
We could not include as many emails and feedback that was coming. And now each hafta, there could be anything from 10 to 30 emails that would come. So we have devised a new system where we read about four to six emails in the hafta, and all the other emails will be read every four to six weeks as. Full collection so we can do justice and give enough time to each email because otherwise we're rushing [00:01:00] through them.
'cause if we have to do like 20 emails in one half the, so that is this new format and this is that show. And it'll come to you, like I said, every four to six weeks. And the entire Nels totally will be part of this so that everyone can respond to whatever critique or appreciation you have towards us individually or jointly.
So on the panel today, Raman Kripal.
Raman: Hi.
Abhinandan: Joining us in subtle Colors from Chennai is Hir Naam.
Jayashree: Hello, hello. And subtle colors, because today's my birthday, guys. Happy birthday. Happy birthday
Abhinandan: M So very nice.
Manisha, Abhinandan, Jayashree: Happy birthday to you. You'll cut
Raman: the cake virtually.
Abhinandan: Yeah. T Okay. Excellent. Manisha Pande.
Manisha, Abhinandan, Jayashree: Hello
Abhinandan: and anal.
So, um, what we'll do is, we'll, we have about 70 emails that have got collected from the last five haah since we started this new system. So we will do in [00:02:00] lots of 10, 10, we shall read them between Jhi, Manish, and I so that we don't collapse of exhaustion. So who wants to go first?
Manisha: Uh, I can go.
Abhinandan: Alright, Manisha, why don't you start for the first 10.
So, the first set
Manisha: of letters pertain to the Indo Park escalation slash conflict slash war, however you view it. First one is from Han says, thanks to Manisha for countering ge. She's ill time brand on women thrown to the dogs. I agree that questioning the government is, isn't un patriotic, but who asks and when matters.
When an upper cast person questions Dali concerns, however legitimate, they're seen as privileged and castes. When a dalit sees injustice everywhere, it's often viewed as a flight for justice, even if some of it is self fulfilling prophecy. A left wing liberal critiquing capitalism is dismissed as indoctrinated, enjoying the very comforts capitalism offers.
Right winger questions. Social security is seen as out of touch. A caste politics beneficiary. Similarly, when the wire [00:03:00] caravan news laundry questioned the government on border tensions, it feels like birds of a feather singing rehearsed tunes. Meanwhile, pro-government media croons so loudly for their masters, you can't hear the song Just noise.
Still even indoctrinated lyrics have some melody. Very confusing to get the last. Very confusing. Also,
Abhinandan: just wanna point out that too many puns, all emails that are above 150 words are going to be compressed into one 50 words because. Otherwise that some word males are 300 words, some are 700 words. So if your mail sounds a little different from what you've written, it's 'cause we have compressed it into one 50.
Jayashree: I wanna say one thing, which is just that, I mean, I take the point, but also I do think there is never a good time to ask the question because we'll say we can't ask the question now, but then in a couple of weeks we'll still say it's not appropriate then to be, while people die. It's usually so I feel we get into the sort of endless cycle of wondering when it is appropriate for you to ask a question of the government or to give an opinion and, and the
Raman: brain
Manisha: and you are very right.
It's never appropriate because as we record [00:04:00] the show, a professor Ashoka Universities in jail for saying exactly what you had pointed out. Yeah, we exactly
Abhinandan: that. And, and that, uh, while BJ p re who said Colonel Reiko, he is running around free, being defended by his party. I mean, it is
Raman: No, but Supreme Court is of course Supreme.
Abhinandan: But why does go Supreme Court, this guy spend another night in jail? This professor,
Raman: and also, I mean, the real question is completely lost. What happened to the intelligence. Mm. Yeah. But, and what happened to the real cul culprits.
Abhinandan: But I, I just have one view, Han, which actually goes, you know, just one step even behind at the first principles, your, uh, email is based on the foundation, at least apparently.
Correct me if I'm wrong, and you've used the word also patriotism. I mean, I personally think patriotism is primitive virtue. I don't think patriotism is any, any great virtue I think it is for idiots.
Manisha: No, you have
Abhinandan: to, you have to have values. I mean, you, so are you saying anyone who questions Israel and Israel [00:05:00] right now is unpatriotic
Manisha: No, no.
Abhinandan: So that what is patriotism? That's not, you already had
Manisha: this.
Abhinandan: Yeah. But patriotism is very vague definition of what is patriotism. So, I mean, I, I think that any discussion which takes patriotism as a first principle. I cannot offer anything, value, any value to that discussion because I disagree with the first principle anyway.
That's my point anyway. I agree with that.
Anand: But the thing is that the high-minded, uh, peary, uh, why do, uh, like, uh, there is also the, i, it was forwarded to me, there is also a mail that, uh, um, says that I, I am taking that into account mm-hmm. In the discussion that, uh, uh, what it achieved, what the operation not achieved.
Okay. Or, or everything. So that's a strategic call. No. So what I'm saying is that the other, in the national community in [00:06:00] which you live, other discourse will be run, uh, say within the. Consensus that the borders matter. Um, borders matter because we are living in an international system where citizens are nationally marked and, uh, um, uh, nationally marked.
And, uh, like say, uh, other political parties, which may not be in line with, uh, the current political party ideologically, uh, they would first try to have a national consensus on the defense. Because even un, article 51 says that self defense is the right, right. That, that because you are not reinventing the wheel, that we are a borderless world.
So, uh, that is one thing I think, uh. Two days back and New York Times had had an [00:07:00] editorial, it's an editorial board piece on why we, um, root for Mr. Fredrich, uh, German Cons counselor. Hmm. So they also talked the same thing that, uh, the popular opinion in these countries, say Germany, France, and this. Is against immigration.
And, uh, the mainstream politics failed because it was not taking into account this national concern about Bo borders. And it quoted, uh, uh, uh, writer David Boom form that, uh, if liberals insist that borders, uh, uh, are to be manned or, uh, or it has to be enforced by fascists only, then people will employ fascists to do the job, which liberals refuse to do.
But what does it have to do? Patriotism. Patriotism, because it's, it's, no, no, I am talking about an, uh, [00:08:00] uh, second male because it, it, it had also, uh, the same concern. Patriotism and nationalism not bringing in I I, I as, as a,
Abhinandan: as a concept? No, no. Course as a concept course. I mean, as a concept, like, it's like basically you can, you can agree with something at a, at a conceptual level, but not real fair.
For example, universal healthcare. Mm-hmm.
Manisha: If
Abhinandan: someone, not anybody will disagree with.
Manisha: Mm-hmm.
Abhinandan: But can you afford it? And at what cost is the question? So capitalism should provide for universal healthcare. If it can't, capitalism has failed, but, so yes, I, if you cannot balance the book, some fascists go and balance it for you.
Mm-hmm. But that's very different from someone saying, which also is a position that many nationalistic, we will not treat X, y, Z with hu with basic humanity. That is a question of what your value system is. That is a question of balancing the book. Yeah. So
Anand: the political discourse, uh, like, uh, like say demonizing the immigrants, but the other extreme is that we are open border, are [00:09:00] 2015, like, uh, marquees that, uh, we will manage this now.
Even constitutional patriotism. If you go to the, uh, tenets of it, it does not say that, uh, these constitutional principles apply to borders beyond. So even it is taking into account that we are a border world. So, uh, that, that is one thing, one aspect, uh, of um, political theory that comes into it.
Raman: Also, I think if there are civilians in line of fire during the war, I think there will be definitely be questions.
Yeah, of course. And this is not unpatriotic question about that. I think patriotic
Manisha: self is a finish emotion, but I think self-serving individuals who use it for their own politics are definitely should be called out.
Abhinandan: Alright.
Manisha: Anonymous says, assuming the ceasefire holds, what was the point of all this?
What did India aim for and gain for any Indian, not blinded by nationalism or PM worship? The past week is [00:10:00] shameful. India came across as a bully globally with no international support. Why? Because the BJP is too busy controlling the internal narrative. Building an army of low IQ sellouts. I. Can't send of CN.
Our media hit rock bottom exposed on the global stage, making Indians a laughing stock. The suppression of critical voices on social media was reminiscent of North Korea. Who are the allies? Pakistan rattled off names like us, China, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, et cetera. Would, at least Saudi Arabia was,
Abhinandan: it's sat out.
Not
Manisha: a Yeah, but sad out. You wanna say like Pakistani? Yeah. Finally, our government should be ashamed that Trump announces he's fired. This was a disaster. Um, I don't think North Korea all, we are close, but I completely agree that this is something we discussed last time also, that the media and internal propaganda completely took over the official government line of what we were trying to do, and that really muddied everything.
Abhinandan: In fact, I had a long discussion. Uh, first of all, very clever anonymous. You have not given your [00:11:00] name in this email because you could be arrested for this email judging by the Mahal we are living in. But the one thing that I, I personally think that. Maybe it wasn't as bad as you say. I don't think India came across as a bully or anything.
I think India came across someone who was defending itself, albeit a little clumsily. I think what really damaged India was not so much the, you know, the foreign policy or the defense angle, which I think was average or above average. I think the Indian media, which is the face of India, Indian establishment, whether we like it or not, Indian media seen as Indian establishment voices and what we used to make fun of Pakistan media.
Remember when, I mean, when News one just started, we used to say that, look how bad they, we are not that bad. If India and Park has been hyphenated, I'd say 90% of it is because the media, because that's how the world sees us. Even like if you see many, meet many diplomats, they'll say, dude, what? What does your media show?
That when our whatever head of state came here, your Prime Minister guides him? What? What nonsense. That's not [00:12:00] true. I was like, you know, that's some media you like, but they see that as official position. So I think that is what's done more damage than anything else.
Anand: No, we have discussed it. I mean, the militarily, of course, in two lines.
Uh, the Indian achievement is that, uh, uh, we, uh, one thing you with relation to Pakistan, you are always in armed peace. You have never been in peace since 1947. It's always armed peace. So military angle cannot be taken out of the picture. Uh, so what we achieved, uh, what, uh, uh, say is, uh. FA nation state draws its legitimacy from sit, uh, from its citizens through defense for first thing.
So, uh, we imposed costs on an aggressor, which is running a pro war against us. So we imposed some costs, high cap costs on us, that that's the, and it's a disincentive. Uh, so, so this instance, if for the till the next attack happens, it, it'll not stop, but [00:13:00] Yeah. But it's still disincentive. But, but this, we have been doing it for decades that just imposing costs on, yeah.
So it'll continue because, because we live in a very hostile neighborhood. Mm-hmm. Uh, second is that, uh, I think, uh, media, uh, like the narrative which flowed from it wasn't something that we couldn't manage and, uh, we couldn't manage in, in our favor because of course, one was the how some media. Went, uh, say part of a section of media.
I would not say the whole Indian media because Indian media is very diverse. Yeah. So, but a section of media went overboard, uh, with, uh, its own, uh, falsehoods. And that to then to clumsily Also, I think this, that, uh, if you criticize, you would be jailed. Now, this is what even government in its crackdown is not consistent.
Mm-hmm. If it was consistent, we would have given a very good level to it. So if you see social [00:14:00] media, similar things that the professor has said, other people have said, other people have said, so if you try. Filling your jails with these kind of things, you, your jails, no space. So even if the government was consistent, people would have known that, oh, this is the new normal.
We should not do it. But you spare somebody, you jail somebody. If you have to do certain, say very repressive things, do it consistently.
Manisha: No, don't.
Jayashree: But that said, even if they're not being consistent, I mean, I still think it's worth saying that they didn't, social media. Taken down is just, you know, well, at least they didn't take down more.
Well, it's, it's a bit, and I think, I think this is quite tangential, but I think people enjoy saying, oh my God, at least we're not North Korea. Like, that is the benchmark of being really shitty, and we at least will never be that shitty. So we feel a little better about ourselves, but I still think it's pretty bad.
Mm-hmm. So
Raman: go Government has taken a very clear stand this time. I think there's a lot more [00:15:00] clarity about it. Uh, uh, so far as the action is concerned, the Indian government has categorically said that any act of terrorism will be considered a war on us. So now, so, so in a way they're saying that if anything happens now, again.
So beautiful. So
Abhinandan: this is the kind of
Manisha: anonymous, again, says there's another anonymous letter says, interestingly, I had a chance to talk to American political streamer Hassan Abby today, and I guess the conversation was quite revealing of how the sensible side of the west views India. He argued that India was the aggressor in the recent conflict, citing attacks on civilian areas in Pakistan, and a lack of evidence linking Pakistan to the Pega attack.
This perception is compounded by India's global image, while some extreme voices. Maybe dismissive, even moderate westerners are critical. Notably, some of the most prominent pro-Israel white supremacist accounts on X are reportedly operated by Indians amplifying Islamophobic narratives. This alignment has led to comparison between Prime Minister Modi, leaders like Erdogan Trump positioning him with a global [00:16:00] populist and authoritarian framework.
Consequently, many in the West instinctively oppose more these policies. This raises the question, has India always been viewed this way? Historically, India's global image has been shaped by its non-alignment movement and emphasis on secularism. However, recent shifts towards Hindu nationalism and the government's handling of domestic and international issues have altered perceptions.
While India's economic growth and strategic importance have garnered respect, its internal policies and international actions have led to increased scrutiny and criticism from the West.
Abhinandan: I mean, by and large, I agree with anonymous. I think you know, on economic fronts, we are, there is respect, and because we are seen as a significant market, but on the others, in fact, one of my recommendations today.
Is about how
Anand: recommendation
Abhinandan: each time come. There is a, a book that's been written, and Ezra Klein had a podcast where he calls it competitive authoritarianism, and he's taken four case studies, Trump GaN uh, Nu and Modi. Oh. And [00:17:00] he has pointed out the similarities, and they're stuck. They're, I mean, like GaN Ani and GaN had a falling out and because his entire billions are made because of Sari favors.
So he's made some comparisons, which you can't ignore. So yes, we are in that zone for sure. I don't think it's a liberal view or anything. I, I think it'll be very hard to, you know, not put it more in that category.
Manisha: Orisha says, dear team loved Kashmir ki Kahani. Shamefully realized how much of Kashmir's history I had forgotten.
What do we really mean when we say Kashmir as an integral part of India? Is it just the valley as a resource for more these corporate allies, or are the people part of the integral narrative too? If they are, why are their voices so often missing from national narratives? In recent weeks, we've seen haunting stories from Pergram followed swift by celebrations of military valor, from media figures like Fe Souza to Bollywood stars like the focus, feel selective, celebrating soldiers while mourning Pega victims and the stock market.
If Kashmiri [00:18:00] are truly integral, why don't we mourn their suffering with the same urgency? They seem to be the biggest victims treated as collateral damage. Is the mainstream media solely to blame or is a deeper systemic neglect at play? Hmm. Mix of both,
Abhinandan: I guess. Yeah, I guess it's a bit of both,
Manisha: although I think that.
Some journalists, at least like for, we were discussing NDTV Shiru report, which did really make an effort to kind of bring in local voices Yeah. Protests that happened right after were covered. Uh, so all that is, but it's not as sustained. And what lies ahead this summer? What is it gonna mean for the entire valley, which was preparing, I mean, we were talking about tourism along the border, we were talking about wedding destination.
Kashmir is one. So what is this gonna mean the next three, four months, complete collapse of economy. There is something to, there has to be more emphasis on that.
Abhinandan: But I mean, just two points I wanna make. One is this whole celebrating the armed forces. Uh, I find so performative in many cases in India.
Manisha: Mm-hmm.
Abhinandan: Uh, because when it come that I'm [00:19:00] talking as a 4G kid, you know, you're a 4G kid. Uh, go to r and r hospital. See how four Gs are treated, decorated generals. 80, 80 years old when they go for treatment, go see the medicines, how CGHS medicines availability. You know, luckily I have friends who, uh, you know, are in the medical business.
Uh, if I had to have my father in his old age, he's 19 now, treated only by 4G resources. I mean, I've, I've been there, dude. So first of all, anyone who's gets up and salutes as a shut up and sit down, uh, because we've seen what the government has done. They've made this new app, by the way, CGHS, Kar for medicines.
Just try to use it. So I think the government's approach to the military is self surfing and pathetic. And I, I have zero sin, uh, respect for it. I have no sin. I think they're completely insincere. They do nothing for four Gs. Uh, and if you talk to any bureaucrat, they grudge four Gs. How do they get 12 bottles of whiskey in a month?
Where do they get, [00:20:00] where do they get? So people who get up and start clapping for four Gs as I sit down to calm. And the second thing is, and I think it's. There's no correct time to say it in Kashmir. I don't think it can be denied that when Hindus are pushed out of Kashmir, which they were, it did have local support.
Let's not pretend it didn't. Oh, in Punjab, I've, you know, I'm from Punjab. The Hindus are pushed out of there. Your Sikh neighbor didn't say, I'll occupy a house.
Raman: Yes.
Abhinandan: Did not.
Raman: No, we saved each other. Even in Delhi.
Abhinandan: Yes. I, I, I have relatives in Punjab. They, you know, the Sikh you go, it's safe here.
Manisha: Do you think that is the reason why their voices are neglected today? Like, no, I think the connection to this,
Abhinandan: I don't think it's neglect. I just think that there is, that, that is not explored enough.
The Sikh movement in Punjab did [00:21:00] not have popular support. Ah, they did not say yes. Get the Hindus out of Punjab. I don't think the same can be said about Kashmir. I'm not saying to what extent, but, uh, people had to just leave their homes and never get them back.
Raman: Situation is quite complex in
Abhinandan: Yeah, it's a lot more there, there are no good guys there.
Raman: The people are radicalized. So you need to first understand, uh, and, uh, see their aspirations and, uh, accordingly. So.
Jayashree: But do you think that entire patriotism thing comes in here also, where there's this feeling that if you criticize Kashmir or you criticize government's, handlings of Kashmir and so on, it's also seen as therefore buying into ideas of is it legitimate, is it not?
Is it occupation? I always feel like the media sort of tiptoes around it or presents it in a certain way, only because no one really wants to ask very uncomfortable questions that may make governments look bad. Right. Like, might make Indian governments look bad.
Abhinandan: Yeah, I, I think it's true. No one, it's everyone has to tiptoe around it for, for [00:22:00] risks.
Their risks on either side. Yeah, it's, it's one of the trickiest yeah zones that way.
Manisha: Nila says, very engaging discussion on Haftar 5 36. It was good to listen to a diversity of perspectives and viewpoints and all of them perfectly seen and reasonable, which TV media would take note, ke says, I thoroughly appreciated the recent HTA episode, especially JE candid critique of the government's approach to operation ur.
Her analysis highlighted the tokenism and featuring kernels, Sophia Koi as a symbol of inclusivity while the media perpetuates harmful syrup. Types such as labeling an aranian diplomatic pig. This raises the question, if the government can ban platforms like TikTok, why does it allow us that derogatory content to proliferate?
Furthermore, the naming of the operations UR is problematic. As a feminist, I find the use of symbols like Hindu, Mangal, Suzu, which are deeply rooted in patriarchal traditions to be exclusionary. Additionally, the operations focused on Hindu women's grief overlooks the suffering of other communities such as Christians who are often marginalized in national narrative.
I commend news laundry for [00:23:00] providing nuance reporting the challenges mainstream narrative. So I don't think Operation Hindu is patriarchal or the name. You mean I, it's taking over. I think there's a certain cultural significance and no, I don't
Raman: think it's like, there's no culture about Hindu. Sorry.
Manisha: No women play puts no culture cap.
But you may not, but there is a I. There is, but
Jayashree: I think, see I feel like they're very deliberately obviously doing it because it invokes, you know, women, women. It means
Anand: in Delhi, Panjaa it meant, but in up B is means every woman. Yes. It's also, uh, a lot of things is like, uh, this kind line is why you can't be like me.
Everyone is just saying why you, you cannot say to. People who like to apply du that what makes you happy? What makes me happy Also should make you happy. I am, I am, uh, backcutting you. So [00:24:00] you, so do I also back out it, there is a, uh, means, uh, every, uh, operations name cannot be very, very, like, uh, operation Vi Operation, eh, operation Hindu.
Because Operation Vi be, because I think the political angle in is it, it's, it's, it's a, a very, uh, if you see VJP as a Hindu interest party, and there were reports that, uh, the victims were marked by their religion and they were, uh, sought in front of their wives. So. It, the messaging was that it's for a, a kind of home is to their sin.
Yeah. I that I think the viral
Manisha: picture basically of the newly we woman with her uras next to the, that is the reason why it's, that's a very simple
Raman: thinking, whatever it is, but it's a symbol of patriarchy. Hmm. And it is not so much of, I mean, of course, I mean, when you, when it persists for, for a long, longer time, it [00:25:00] becomes part of culture.
Abhinandan: No, I think it's both can be true. I, I, I mean, I think it can be, I think what, uh, uh, Anan said is true that it's a Hindu interest party and they would take a Hindu, like for example, they could have also given it like Hindu is something only Hindu women put. So in that sense, it is talking about a very specific reference point, which is not a common reference, but a lot of others.
So if one were to go strictly by pick. Something that doesn't have any political messaging but is representative, you would not pick Hindu. So it is clearly, it's a Hindu interest party. They would pick a Hindu symbol. That is true for me. Is it something I'd make an issue of it right now? No, I wouldn't.
But is du a symbol of patriarchy? I don't think one can argue against that. I mean, it's like saying burka is not a symbol of patriarchy. There's a very, uh, excellent conversation. I dunno if you can it out. Ndi
Manisha: also symbol of patriarch. I know
Abhinandan: about ndi, but Hindu definitely is. I mean, for example, there's a very interesting conversation between uh, Salman Rashti, who is a brilliant man who says burka is a symbol of patriarchy.
And a young girl who says a aware of choice, he, you may [00:26:00] wearing out choice. Great. But it's, that doesn't mean it's not a symbol of patriarchy. I can say by I, you know, wear a white Saudi as a widow out of choice. But it is still a simple patriarchy. No,
Manisha: firstly, like there are two aspects here. One is enforcement of something and then it becomes patriarchy.
In the case of burka and hiding of your face, URA is simply this red thing that you put in the middle of your mind, which is not. I really don't see how it's a cultural thing. In the same way as a Bindi, a red Bindi married women, NDI becomes patriarchy. Then a du s becomes patriarch. It could, right, but it could anything.
But I don't think, I mean, it's curious. Why do you say
Abhinandan: one sec, sec, but it's curious. Why would you say that? Yes, burka is a sign of patriarchy, but UR is not 'cause the
Manisha: root of it's to hide your face, to stop men getting attracted to you. The root to UR is, I don't think, I don't know what the root of it, what woman.
So for me,
this C
Abhinandan: to, yeah, what is it?
Manisha: It's not the C to sake can, [00:27:00] yeah, it's not all that. What,
Anand: just see, I'm curious. Whatever it is, this is,
Abhinandan: okay. This is my erritory. What is it? No, it's.
What wedding are Wedding is not, it's not Hindu custom.
Manisha: No, but it's not. But du saying this,
Abhinandan: why do you wear a wedding ring? I dunno. I'm think it's a marker
Manisha: of you being married in the same way that Mendy is. Yes. But it is a marker being married.
Abhinandan: Both. Both. Wear a wedding ring. Do men wear Hindu?
Manisha: Men don't wear, no.
I thankfully they don't wear they, but I'm sure. What do men do?
Abhinandan: I
Manisha: think, I think married.
Abhinandan: I think anyone else? There's no, no oppression to me.
Manisha: Look, there is a cultural context within which something can be, I don't have no clue what the root of St. Lu, how it started. Mm-hmm. But it is not very different from burka.
I'm sorry, burka. Stopping you from showing your face to the whole world because you may be so attracted to a woman, but if a person's a choice,
Abhinandan: then you can strip it of [00:28:00] context.
Manisha: No, of course that is different. That then becomes a political symbol and all that, but I don't think that's still a
Abhinandan: symbol of, uh,
Anand: anyway.
Huh?
Abhinandan: You have the last word on this
Anand: last one. One. I think we have 70 liter. So, uh, uh, so as what I'm saying that deterministic like, uh, conspiracy theories that, that this was, put it like this, but to, uh, I think there is also a cultural argument that aesthetically it, it cannot be equated with other patriarchal symbols also.
Uh, the other argument is that it has been internalized as non-operative or, or not as a marker of patriarchy. But, uh, I think it is not first of all, enforced in the same way, uh, uh, and it's naturally changing. Now, less women apply it and those who apply apply not under any kind of say, like, uh, supervision that you have to do it.
And it, so it, um, many women find it very [00:29:00] aesthetically as appealing also as Do they find No. No. Why?
Abhinandan: No, why, why? One says others. No, no. We had a colleague. We had one sec. Let's be very clear. Okay. I agree with everything you're saying, but one thing I completely disagree with,
there was a colleague here, young girl, who I asked her, why do you wear her? I have a very liberal, I I was just curious. I have not, she says I wear it as out of choice. Yes. My parents must, lemme finish what I'm saying. My parents have not forced me. In fact, no one does. I wear it because I think I must, so, so she's doing out of choice.
What I, what my problem is. You are saying URA of choice is aesthetic of choice is not aesthetic. That can also be aesthetic. Now, I mean, I, I'm in the
Manisha: root of something and I'm also saying that, come on the. The imposition of burka is way wider in terms of a social context. A lot of women actually all over the world don't want, we actually, the problem
Jayashree: is we are picking and choosing what we think is worse.
If you're saying that the [00:30:00] nothing is worse, I'm not even worried about woman is mad, the men do not have an equivalent of the same thing. Then obviously it is the simple Yeah, exactly. Whether or not people now use it for choice, whether or not they're not forced to do it or course to do it, it's something that they do because it is their marker of No, we are not opposing
Raman: why they picked it up.
No, what, what I am, I'm saying is
Anand: that I didn't say no. No. Uh, I to for negating that argument. I am saying that if a burka or a du for somebody is. A statement of someone's cultural personality and he's happy to do that. So we should not be telling that, look, you, you are not, uh, very cult means politically aware.
You are not conscious of your rights. I will make you, I will make you happy. You don't, I'm saying that, I don't think anyone's saying that
Abhinandan: no one is, but who's saying that? No. Are you? Let's be clear. What are we doing here? We are discussing. Someone said [00:31:00] it to the mark. It's very, what you are saying is very different from discussing something conceptually to someone saying, stop wearing the ura.
Those are two different things. To
Manisha: put it very simply, for me, Hondura is an extension of a makeup that Hindu married women Do. You put Bindi, you put red lipstick, you put jewelry, you put a thing in the middle of your man, which is red. Now, men will not put a lipstick, they'll not put a Bindi, they'll not wear earrings and they won't do this.
It depends on, but to me, this makeup or this exterior thing is not. It's not patriarchy, it's a culture. It's there's a cultural context to why women dress up a certain way and that's it.
Raman: You can't but equate lipstick with the,
Manisha: your hands might,
Abhinandan: but all I'm saying is. Uh, all of you who are in the Gen Z Zone, you can write in two podcasts@newsletter.com and please correct auntie here that men would not wear Ur, men would not wear Bindi.
I don't know which men you can hang out with, but the men I hang out with. Indeed. There were Sardis, there were sand. [00:32:00] Also, I'm pretty eighties and nineties. I'm 20, 25. Just saying.
Manisha: Yeah. Now you just have, you have no escaped to this. So you found some other route. I escaped from what? From this? That's essentially makeup.
How is makeup? Then we need to get into the whole makeup patriarchy. Yeah, you can. You're saying,
Jayashree: you're saying it's makeup as if it's fact. That is not fact. It is something that you only wear if you are married to show that you are married. Yeah. So married women have
Manisha: a certain way of making, when
Jayashree: it's say whether I'm married or not, if I wear IT syndrome in my head and then say, yeah, but I'm doing it.
I'm not married yet, but I'm just wearing it for fun, for makeup. It doesn't work. It
Manisha: doesn't work. It's the way married women dress up. I think it's very different from anything else, and you may find it patriarchal, but I don't think in its essence it stems from patriarchy.
Abhinandan: Okay. That will have to get started.
Something I That even is
Manisha: patriarchy then. Yeah. Why are women supposed to do X, Y, Z, Z? Sure.
Abhinandan: It's
Manisha: patriarch, I
Abhinandan: think. I think one can make that point. I don't think it's a completely irrational point to make.
Manisha: Yeah.
Abhinandan: You see, you think that way even Of course it can be. I mean, everything
Manisha: is patriarchy then.
Nothing's patriarchy. If everything's patriarchy.
Abhinandan: Mary [00:33:00]
Manisha: Manisha is sad. Gimme give water please. After this. Okay, Salman says, we've often talked about unsustainability of the TV media's divisive Hatemongering, war Monering antics. You think they finally crossed the line? Even the government will not tolerate with the way they've peddled fake news misinformation.
Since pegon and subsequent fighting between Indian pastors, I don't think the government will not not tolerate. I think they will be tolerated. Awesome, and others will go to you
Abhinandan: quickly. Salman, actually, there is a provision, the Cable Television Act, whatever it's called, I'll pull it up and quote it at some point where there is a provision that your channel can be taken down if you cause hostilities or mistrust between friendly countries.
And Pakistan is, this is a friendly country, by the way, at least back then it was. And forget Pakistan. Iran, what we said about America. You know, I'm not talking about Uncle Sam. So if the government wants, they have the legal means and the provisions in place to shut down these channels on a very specific clause.[00:34:00]
But no, don't hold their breath.
Manisha: Atin says, hello, NL Team. Apart from nl, the only other news app on my phone is Indian Express. And in the recent past, I've noticed multiple slips or a changing of stance in Express's reporting. Example on the hands of protests, the reporter wrote the liberal protestors, which felt diminishing the protestors.
Definitely not all might have had a liberal outlook, but to brand them as liberal protestors seem to be an effort to chip at their credibility and stance. I'm, uh, what was the hands of protests? Sorry, I, I don't, what are the hands
Abhinandan: of protests, by the way? I'm clearly.
Manisha: Second on follow up on Karen Bailey's story.
Anal had mentioned, uh, as an online portal, not even online. Uh, express had mentioned us as an online portal, not even online news portal or better get news laundry, but they did say the news minute. So this happens when often the two of us, uh, work together on stories. Some people pick news, laundry, some people pick news minutes.
Some very few say news nor newsmen.
Jayashree: Mm-hmm. But also many people will go out their way to try and avoid naming you altogether, which I find very petty
Abhinandan: things the [00:35:00] media
Jayashree: keeps
Abhinandan: a lot of people avoid naming us. Specifically
Manisha: third in the reporting of on Ur k, REI first name was written as Sophia, but her name is Sophia with an FF It's not with a pH h but this I guess, is a mistake.
I don't know if it's a stance issue, these are what I can currently think of. But, uh, there've been many slippages that perhaps need a laundry. So
Jayashree: the hands of protests were organized across. 50 US states against Trump and Musk.
Manisha: Ah, now I, now I, that's the one.
Jayashree: And they were liberal protestors,
Manisha: which is okay.
I don't think there's anything wrong with calling them. Liberal doesn't chip away their credentials. Liberals will only protest against them. Who else will
Jayashree: though? Yeah. Also because like labor unions and stuff. So I think they were very specifically,
Abhinandan: well, I think progressive groups after what Trump has done now, I think anyone with half a brain will protest against him.
You don't have to be liberal, but
Manisha: I say but on, on, on ground, like
Abhinandan: as that meme goes where, um, um, who was that president who says you made me sell my peanut farm?
Manisha: Was it Jimmy? Jimmy Carter.
Abhinandan: Jimmy Carter. Famously he [00:36:00] was made to sell his peanut farm because there was a conflict of interest because of his peanut farm and him being president.
So now there's this meme going around, you made me sell my peanut farm. And this guy's doing Bitcoin shit coin, AKA coin, though I think anywhere half a brain would protest against Trump today. I.
Manisha: KO says Hello, NL team. It was infuriating to see Morgan show. He appeared unprepared, holding pictures, hoping for a dramatic Bollywood style movement.
When the Pakistani panelists mocked him over the joke, controversy, and pro-government podcast guests, he had no comeback. I understand not wanting to deflect, but this panelist is the hope of TPEA vocal critic of the Pakistan establishment who had called out the Army's historic propaganda and lies.
Jayashree: Why not T is this podcast called, um, Pakistan Experience.
Okay. Oh, right. I've
Abhinandan: been on that podcast, huh
Manisha: uh. Why not use it against them watching RI do this signature head shake this time with the frown? While Ra, to articulate j India's stance was cringe-worthy, honestly, even burka looked tired, cornered, and did not counter the narrative effectively, but at least she had a [00:37:00] facts, right?
I understand that government's anti minority re rhetoric makes it hard to argue for our diversity, but this is just painful to watch. Don't we have anybody in the country to get a story to the world? What I wouldn't have given to see Shadu. Manisha on the panel. Apologies for the rant. But PS Morgan's also not such a serious show.
I think we are also taking the whole show too seriously as if like the world is looking at it to understand India. I mean, if it was Christian Amman poor, I still understand, but he's also like one Britain's got, yeah, and I don't think he has much credibility. Right? It's not
Jayashree: like
Manisha: people, audience, he has
Jayashree: audience, but he's a complete idiot.
But also people are a little more sympathetic towards him now because he's, how would you compare like slightly sensible things on Palestine? That's it. Who
Manisha: would he be comparable to in India?
Jayashree: If Soha
Abhinandan: would start a show,
Manisha: then
Abhinandan: yeah, I think that's
Manisha: who starts a show?
Abhinandan: If Sohail hit would start a show, that would be pure, you know?
Yeah. And convenient. And are the P SMS probably slightly better? Red. And more camera than [00:38:00] Soheil who would be quite difficult to watch
Manisha: says, dear NL Team, I really enjoyed Hafta 5 28 and discussion with Amit on tariffs and protectionism. To expand this conversation, I'd love to suggest how J Chang as a guest Chang, a leading heterodox economist challenges free markets orthodoxy in books like Kicking Away the Ladder, bad Samaritans, and 23 Things They Don't Tell You about Capitalism.
His work argues that today's richest nations use protectionism to grow and critiques globalized capitalism, impact on developing economies. He's warm, affable, communicator who simplifies complex ideas, making him a fantastic fit for hta, where we should really get him. I've seen him appear even on small podcasts, so he might be opening.
He said small. There's a chance that you may get him. We are very big anyway. We're very big. A conversation with him could provide fresh perspectives on economic policy, trade, and India's development path. Great. That's, we must, uh, get him on board if [00:39:00] he agrees.
Abhinandan: Thank you. I've taken his name. Mm-hmm.
Manisha: Per sy, he just says, respected panel.
Looking at the high handedness displayed by politicians and their guna followers over Al cameras. Comedy or anyone else's has raised a stink. I'm unable to escape. I was watching a video a few weeks back of and Chu and other comedians in us reacting to what had happened to Sam bare biceps and the manner in which they were commending on the state of freedom speech in this country led me to lower my head in shame.
This is the perception that every act of suppression is creating in the minds of discerning individuals. In fact, I suggest one must let this issue not die as part of news cycle, but challenge these bullies. I request you to kindly host Canal camera. We have, it's a special, uh, so that's already
Abhinandan: done and you watched it, Perry, so I hope you enjoyed it.
Manisha: Method, man says, I know you get pushback, but can we have more editors, round table style discussions like last time, it wasn't tied to current affairs and allowed for deeper, more meaningful conversation and even some disagreement. Would love to see Supria or Harto join and Anan as an honorary member, if only [00:40:00] to roll his eyes.
I especially appreciated it because I've tried to provoke discussions on patriotism, national nationalism in earlier letters with little luck deserves attention. What actually binds Indians together is a transactional, accidental cultural. I tried making a list, mangoes, monsoon cast, classical music, not exactly a sturdy basis of nationhood.
I leaned towards Manisha Aans view. If it's about shared values, heretics get punished. Without shared values, though, why should we act for one another yet? If India were to break up, it'll likely end in bloodshed. The paradox is worth unpacking. Why would it end in bloodshed?
Jayashree: Do you think
Manisha: because there'll be civil war, I'm guessing too much
Abhinandan: diversity, but which round table is he talking about?
Manisha: You
Jayashree: guys had Sima on and
Manisha: from the
Jayashree: YI
Abhinandan: see. Ha
Manisha: me, you and Sima.
Abhinandan: I see. So, um, I just, on what keeps us together, I think is habit. Yeah. You can't list,
Manisha: it's the greatest reasons why marriages last for long. It's
Abhinandan: just habit. You're just so used to, you just gotta,
Manisha: [00:41:00] yeah. Make
Abhinandan: India together long enough and then it's just uncomfortable or inconvenient to not be Indian.
Jayashree: So you've been told for like 70 or 80 years that you are union states unity and diversity. That is actually the most effective way of doing
Abhinandan: it, which is fine. Yeah. You know, everything is a habit.
Jayashree: No. So I think that's what you're saying, right? That it's too radical to question because this is just how it is.
Abhinandan: Yeah, exactly.
Manisha: I'd like to request NL to consider for the next NL center, the omnipresent private healthcare system from GPS to hospitals in India, perhaps even pharmacies, as I think this is all one big system and each cannot thrive without the other. From over prescriptions of medicines in general care to private hospitals advising surgeries as the one and only way to any problem at all.
Totally avoidable and unnecessary surgeries in most cases, like replacing knee, removing uterus, bypass, angioplasty, stents. There's just no intent of prevention of illness in these systems, only cure and cure only through means of medicines or surgery. No GP has the general knowledge of nutrition. Or [00:42:00] physical fitness, so to advise their patient, but simply writing down prescriptions of medicines, ending up in medicine, subscriptions and families.
Absolutely no regard to people's pockets. In fact, I think you had made this point that one of the reasons why Ayurveda also, or you nanny, or any of these alternate systems have the pull that they do in India because of
Abhinandan: affordability, this
Manisha: and this lack of trust that maybe when you go to a hospital, you'll just be told to do something which you don't really need, but you'll be told because they wanna make money.
Yeah.
Jayashree: Then
Manisha: what
Jayashree: happens is that there are such preventable things where an intervention is the only way forward. Yeah. And you can live a great quality of life after that, but people will still not do it because they're convinced that instead we will do either whether homeopathy or whatever. And then I'm saying that you, so I belong to a lot of these groups on Facebook and Instagram and whatever, where like, you know, you look for support after say hip replacements and stuff, and the number of Indians there who are just refusing to get things done because they're like, no, no, no, it's been 15 years.
I'm dying of pain every day, but
Abhinandan: I will not do that. I shouldn't get an
Jayashree: operation. I should only, you know, follow this hopeful path that maybe this powder will cure me. It's not [00:43:00] going to guys. So I will say though, but there is a horrific over prescription of antibiotics. I know every single time my parents go to the doctor, even if it's only like how cold or whatever for a couple of days, but immediately they're given antibiotics, they're taking them several times a year, and I find that very alarming.
Manisha: So
Raman: the approach is not prevention, uh, preventive, yeah. At all. Because say for example, if I get my test done, if say DEXA test is done. They don't tell me. I mean, the, uh, what is this test for? What have they found? They'll simply gimme a, a tablet, take this tablet, but they don't explain. So there is no prevention.
So, so for prevention, you have to, I mean, look somewhere else, not, not to this. So
Abhinandan: there was this podcast I'd heard a while ago. It was an NPR podcast, and of course I keep putting podcasts. It's a very interesting incentive system for doctors. They said, doctors, the financial incentive is the more frequently you come to them, the more money they make.
The way to actually completely reverse this is, [00:44:00] it's like a subscription. You buy a subscription to a doctor, each time you have to go to the doctor, you get a discount on the next subscription, the next, so basically the disincentive is that the doctor does not make money each time he prescribes or you unwell.
So therefore, he will only give you advice that prevents you from coming to him for wellness, which is an interesting take. But yeah, that's, that's the only.
Manisha: Simmer says, I'm a big fan of Alta. It's my weekly source of news from India. I was recently hearing Hil Kamas, what the fuck is policing episode? And learned what the fuck?
Abhinandan: What the hell?
Manisha: Sorry about that.
Abhinandan: What the, what the fuck is Sir, sir, sir, sir, Manisha, your stereotypes
Manisha: about women must really change. Valley Woman can say fuck. Anyway, HIL Kamar w What the hell is policing episode and learned That's actual
Abhinandan: name podcast. What the hell? It's,
Manisha: this one is [00:45:00] actually a very good episode. Even I heard a lot about it.
I'm sorry. That's
Abhinandan: actually name of the podcast.
Manisha: What the hell? So it's basically the policing changes. So what the hell is in Influe? Whatever. So like, let's talk about this. Yeah. What the hell is like, let's talk about exactly. Uh, so, uh, this episode also,
Jayashree: but I think you're right, Manisha. I think it was called, what the Fuck is No, I think so.
What the hell? Maybe he changed it. Yeah. I feel like he censored it in this letter. Maybe
Manisha: after. Oh yeah.
Manisha, Abhinandan, Jayashree: Mm-hmm.
Manisha: I think it's, what the fuck this check. Yeah, it is. It's WTF on you. What the, okay. WTF policing episode and learned that the traffic police in Manalo have body cams. I wonder if police across India also use them, and if so, how are extra judicial killings still happening?
I would be really curious to see a report on how technology like body cams, CCTVs, and other tools can help keep the police more accountable. I feel it would fit well with your impunity of Indian police services. PS thanks. Uh, shout out to Manisha. I value her perspective on HTA and nuisance. Thank you. [00:46:00]
Jayashree: I can answer this 'cause I had looked it up a little while ago because India doesn't use body cams.
I think in Delhi often they put some money aside for the Delhi cops to get body cams, but then I think within a year they stopped working and then they just never replaced them. Bangalore has. A few thousand. Yeah. But also it is not some sort of systemic, there's a pilot project
Abhinandan: I read about in Bangalore.
Yeah.
Jayashree: And so everyone says, yeah, the thing is that we don't have any money. But also I think there are priorities as to, there's so many things wrong with the policing system that. Getting body cams is very, very low on their list because yes, it is I think quite widely studied in the West and it is an excellent tool for accountability.
Manisha: Says hello team. Over the last years the job outlook in IT sector has been pretty bleak with companies either putting a freeze on new hirings or laying off employees at large scale. There are various factors at play that at play, I believe you people should do one LTA about it, where you can bring subject experts for discussion who can explain the nuances and intricacies of the issue and how the freshers can navigate this tri terrain.
Yeah, actually [00:47:00] every, uh, I think quite a few reports also came up for placements. Were very poor this time. No salaries. Yeah. Rf. The key says, dear Nl, team, I religiously watch hafta, which is always very engaging, a great discourse. However, I feel there's a want of discussion on scientific topics that greatly or that directly or indirectly impact our society.
India in general is greatly EDU uneducated. On this front, we grapple with a plethora of issues such as antibiotic abuse, lack of vaccination, despite cervical cancer being the second most frequent cancer in Indian women, and much of it is attributed to human papilloma virus. The chronic effect of perpetual exposure to noise pollution on mental physiological health, the list is exhaustive.
It would be great if occasionally HTA could also broach these issues. Hopefully, HTA audience will be a source of further public awareness. Since I have a considerably decent experience in cancer research, I'll be more than happy to contribute with background information.
Abhinandan: Great. Yeah. Only thing it's such, you know, [00:48:00] hyper uh, expertise subjects are always, if you notice, not just in case of cancer and medicine and others also like ai, like, you know, the technical aspects of it.
It's just difficult to do a project or a news report around that for a variety of reasons. Uh, but yeah, maybe we should do more of that, but we had to write the science desk. Uh, it's just very difficult to make that work. Mm-hmm. The, the, the cost benefit analysis amount of time it takes and the expertise required don't add up when it comes to a high impact story on governance.
So that's the only reason
Manisha: she tell says, dear NL team, I'm a subscriber to both, uh, NL and TNM YouTube channels regularly watch NL Hafta and South Central. Both are essential parts of my weekly routine. The efforts by both teams are commendable. Following up on the startup discussion in the previous hafta, I want to highlight cgo.
Uh, she's made a couple of allegations against this. Ed Tech platform that we cannot verify. So we won't read it out. Uh, but basically she's talking about how it has and the [00:49:00] whole money. She says, so Unreliability of Anonymous has a suggestion for the right to breed campaign. What if it becomes mandatory for every student to plant a tree every year of their schooling, and they have to ensure that the tree exists for 10 years till they pass out of school?
They should be graded on the existence of the trees. This is poor children, like they don't have enough. I'm very against this, but I mean this will educate the future generations on trees and their importance. Also, if people can make money off live trees, they would've higher chances of survival. An entire ecosystem will be created around providing this facility for school kids.
Just one thing, I don't think pollution is something that school kids, poor school kids should be burdened with fixing. This is really like, you have to ask questions of our governments, various governments and central government. The most important
Abhinandan: also, I mean, when cities like called Qatar, Delhi and Bombay, there's so many kids.
If everybody has to plant one tree, then there's just not enough space for, for so many trees in these cities. But, [00:50:00] but using, in any
Anand: case or in 1 billion years, life will be not. We on earth, so Yeah. But
Abhinandan: we realize, no, no, but, but, but by then Trump and his prodi kata is his PROEs progeny would have found a way to, uh,
Anand: but place other planets will also, because, uh, the report is now, it's not a new Sun City.
Yeah, what I'm saying, really outside the solar
Abhinandan: system. No, we don't have to be in the solar system. No, but on, on this, there is one case study, and I've mentioned this several times, where raha and surrounding areas in the eighties had become bald because of. Mining and they're lush green. And that was done purely by the schools of Thedo For 10 years, every school in Thedo had to go for two days and plant trees there.
And today, you see, that is one of the most successful reforestation that happened anywhere in the country. It was done by school kids. Hmm.
Manisha: Wan [00:51:00] says high NL team, great fan of hafta. Uh, AB made a passing reference in one of the hafta to Swami and ran Xi connection. Hope to see a detailed story on this premise.
It's but, uh, been reported or No, this
Raman: has been reported on, got this done in DNA. We did a series on it. Let me just locate and
Abhinandan: Yeah. But this story has been done, uh, a while ago. In fact, when this whole drama was unfolding, the role of the, that time, the head of sang and his son-in-law, or son or something,
AMI uh, enough stories have been done on this. I mean, we don't have anything new, but if we do, we'll definitely report it. It's an
Jayashree: old story. No.
Manisha: Yeah, yeah. You as well. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Now, Abraham has written three letters. The first one pertains to what we should do with hafta letters, so that we've already decided, so I won't read it right.
The second one is about the outlook story that we put out, and, uh, has a suggestion that after 30 years of internet, it's evident that websites are not the optimal platform for reading [00:52:00] news. Mm. In finite scroll webpage format are not conducive to absorbing in-depth news stories. Mm. Unfair to compare well research stories by NL with sensationalist outlets like Open India and outdated giants like N DT V reflected, as reflected by N'S own panel preferences for reading newspapers As a primary news source, I propose curating new stories and graphics in a digital magazine format.
Abhinandan: Right. Okay. So basically like. Okay. Point taken. Uh, Rama has been suggesting that for a very long time. Time. No, we tried
Jayashree: it. Remember Rama, we brought out some two, three issues. Huh. But like it is very, very time consuming. Also it, I think in theory it sounds great, but I don't know if people actually
Manisha: also, look, we can't.
People do read on the web. I think we should stop thinking that few.
Jayashree: It's an entire thing of, oh, you're not a journalist until you see your name in print, your byline or whatever. But
Abhinandan: I think that's also a question of it's very habit. I just need to read a newspaper. Yeah. I don't think, uh, the gen, [00:53:00] gen Z people do, or
Manisha: even people your age, a lot of them do consume.
So it's just that you are in the business of news, so you want to read those newspapers.
Raman: It is just a habit. I consume newspaper as well as,
Abhinandan: uh, I do both, but I have to consume the newspaper. Ah, newspaper. I cannot read the newspaper
Raman: Morning. Yes.
Abhinandan: Like I, although we have a subscription for the Indian Express, I only read the paper.
In the paper from, same here. Same here.
Manisha: Anish says that, um, regarding air pollution, I will reach out again once I review the literature a bit more and analyze the issue from research, I think. The he'd written to us about wanting to contribute and we'd written back, yeah, I believe a well explained popular science piece on the study might be valuable, which is,
Abhinandan: uh, no.
So great. We look forward to this, Anish. Uh, whenever it's ready, do mail it. Anything in this zone is something we are specifically looking for, especially from area experts such as yourself.
Manisha: Jeev says. This is Ji from a tiny part of Kerala. I think India is a country of misplaced priorities. To mention a few examples, no focus on improving primary [00:54:00] health and education.
Instead of uniting the country based on common development goals, we find ways of dividing people based on useless issues. No focus on providing primary needs, such as clean air, drinking water, improving cleanliness in public spaces, bribing citizens with cash for votes instead of providing jobs that can improve quality of life.
Or fellow citizens. I can go on and on, can use laundry, come up with a list of misplaced priorities that this country's pursuing. This could help the government and correct its course I, government has enough advice on this. I mean, can't correct course if it forms. I mean, if you to
Abhinandan: ask me, the one place which would have multiple positive impacts is real estate.
Manisha: What to do it government
Abhinandan: residences, the real estate, the occupy, the resources you can create just by leasing those out, renting those out, forget others. Just take the, you know, four metros or just take Latins. You can raise probably five. You can probably fund a full healthcare program for the whole [00:55:00] country on that.
You can, you know, fund grain for that. I mean, but no one's gonna do that because, and I can tell you this from very decent politicians I have interacted with down the edges in the last decade rail.
Raman: They say
Abhinandan: Boss Tika, you can say railway serving the country, they're saying was, I want to remain mp. 'cause for that house people sell their souls.
So if you were to just want to reach resource, it is real estate provided to. Uh, mps, MLAs and, and, uh, ministers, sorry, m
Raman: in a different context, what I'm trying to say at is the biggest real estate. Yeah.
Manisha: Now comes general feedback on Hafta and our team. Beit says, I've been wondering lately, has news laundry become a bit of an echo chamber?
It feels like a small but vocal subscriber basis shaping coverage too much, and there's been a shift towards more [00:56:00] sensationalist takes. Believe it or not, especially when calling out media outlets and the state, the content that gets the most traction seems to be the loudest in a way that is comparable to legacy media.
Have we done any internal research on what content we are pushing, the amount of traction it's getting, and from what spectrum of our subscribers? Truly independent journalism comes from understanding these nuances, I believe. Can we also consider a model like the Guardian Scott Trust? A board with diverse ideological voices could help ensure balance.
That said, I love your work and forever grateful to Ram so. You once recommended Huberman podcast on metabolism and health and it truly saved my life. Keep up the great work, but please be mindful of your echo chambers.
Abhinandan: So neath on the bit on the structure. Well, news Laundry is working on a very interesting structure that will have certain elements of guardian's trust.
But on the other stuff, I can tell you with confidence, none of our reportage is pushed by what, uh, leads to more [00:57:00] subscription because there is no sensible Yeah. Connections that we have been able to establish. And we don't have that kind of data because we get this story subscription goes up, uh, that there is no such, uh, causation and correlation.
We don't even have data that we can study to figure if that happens.
Raman: And I remember, uh, when I joined seven years ago, you the first thing you said, give your note into this number
Abhinandan: game. Uh, correct. So we, we just, we really don't know what, what pushes subscription, what doesn't. In fact, we were discussing today, sometimes it, we have no idea why Suddenly subscriptions go up.
Then, uh, chance says, no, it is because people, six monthly subscription has expired. They've all subscribed again. I was like, dude, they should be expiring evenly over the year. Why are they all expiring in one month? One month? But we don't know. Dude.
Manisha: Anish says, hi, big a big fan of your work. Keep it up in the last half.
Third discussion on three language rule in NEP and Tam's opposition was shallow. Ian Shabi wrongly claimed. Hindi threatens regional [00:58:00] languages, ignoring states like Maharastra Gura the Northeast, where Hindi coexists without harm read their literature, observe their growth with the passage of time. The real issue is Tien in Tien isn't Hindi.
It's resistance to any language other than tamal. Unlike other Saudi states. TN exhibits a superiority complex towards other cultures and languages. Their fear of Hindi is exaggerated. Parents can choose any third language. No one discusses how tn opposes even other South Indian languages. I agree.
Sanskrit is a waste, and North Indian states should pick a regional language. Instead, please analyze such issues deeply instead of a superficial take. The real divide isn't just north south, but south South, no offense meant just disappointed in the discussion. A TB, what does a TB mean?
Jayashree: All the best.
Manisha: Oh,
Abhinandan: Jess, you have any take on that since it's addressed to you?
Jayashree: I am struggling to remember what I said on that episode, but I also think I did have data specifically on Mati and Gujarati and so [00:59:00] on, so it isn't just that I'm
Manisha: not
Jayashree: pulling this out of my, out of my hat. There was sort of precedence as to what languages work with respect to Hindi. Also, I think, isn't it Maha that is now said they're gonna have a three language policy, but one of the languages will be Hindi, even though it's not supposed to be.
Sort of mandated. So I think that's the thing you, you can say Tamara has a superiority. Contract's probably true, but the fight here isn't just that, oh my God, we're going to push against this just because we want to do it and we think Tamara is better than everything else. The fight against it is that there is set precedences on how Hindi is used to dominate and how the central government is using it as a tool.
And I think it's been explained very articulately and very well by people who are much more welder than I am. So it's not just that we're opposing for the sake of it, we're opposing because there is a reason to do it. We have, and there is no data to prove the alternative, which is, there is no data to say that.
Well, if Tam people go to North Indian states, they're struggling. There is none of that. I mean, [01:00:00] think that opportunities are two and far in between. I don't think that's
Abhinandan: true at all. We have only one. Primary Hindi speaker here. Do you have any views on this letter, on any P of Hindi being mandatory or not mandatory or third language?
What do you think?
Manisha: No, I,
Abhinandan: but just one thing, Anish, I, I mean, again, I'm, I don't know why you've included Hindi integration in the Northeast. I dunno if you've been there, and I dunno, have you done this on the base of data, but if you go purely by traveling there, uh, Hindi is as far away from many states in the Northeast as is from a small village in Tam Nado, which means they understand no Hindi.
Mm-hmm. So I, I don't know how well entrenched or how does he
Manisha: mean, uh, the existence of Indian schools as a language.
Abhinandan: It says you be there in curriculum. In curriculum. I think,
Jayashree: no. And I'll also say that these are very elite discussions. I mean, when you talk to actual minded laborers who are the ones who are forced to sort of travel state to state for work, they are the ones who travel state to state, and they learn the [01:01:00] language because they have to, they're not really given a choice.
They're not allowed to say, well, I'm not gonna do it. I'm gonna do something else. So I don't know. All this is very like, but I do, I just think that. I understand when people tell me that they think that it is some, a question of superiority and of thumb being better, but it is absolutely not about those two points and, and you can't
Abhinandan: also ignore that it has been a political tool.
Yeah, an
Manisha: integral part of politics there and identity. Karthik says, hi team, regular listener of NL H since 2015. I want to share a few thoughts on the issue of language. I'm from Andra Pade, a state where there's least political opposition to Hindi, which is ironic since Andra was formed out of a political movement of TEUs speakers.
My Hindi is okay, but living in Bangalore, I feel there are practical reasons to learn it. Despite being in the South migrated community. The third in six years celebrates festivals North Indian style with Bollywood flair friends and Hy Echo this. My parents feel out of place while visiting, but they. [01:02:00] Met more South Indian friends in the us.
I want my son to learn Hindi to make friends and blend in. Given the demographic trend, it seems inevitable. Plus speaking a DEI language is better for cultural exchanges. And let's be honest, it's handy for workplace gossip abroad. Would love to know your views.
Abhinandan: I mean, I don't think it's unique to India.
Knowing any other language is great. I mean, I if, if you knew Bengali in the nineties, you'd do much better as an advertising person or a producer. 'cause only Bengali speakers would be in the gossip because every creative director is Bengali. They dominated advertising. So of course knowing, knowing French is great, knowing Spanish is great.
Yeah. And I, it's not unique to Hindi by, if you know unique, you have a better chance in the world That I don't agree. Knowing any language, depending on the context, can give you plus points. Yeah.
Manisha: Also, I think when migrants travel and learn a language, I don't think that's in contention because they will learn newer languages.
They will learn. Other things. I mean, that kind of fluidity is what makes languages live longer [01:03:00] than any other thing. But imposition is something else, like curriculum stuff is something different from you wanting to learn indie because you happen to be in a place where there are more indie speakers.
Yes. And that's all. That's all that's part of the game. Somar Shekar says great work. Wondering if the 660 grow is spent on science and tech education rather than on Sanskrit. If Hindi is for cultural reasons, then how are politicians comfortable with English? Not anymore though. I think, I think even like the very laan type make it a point to especially who crossed over to BGP.
Mm. Like um, European saying, for example, if you see him speak now, very clashed Hindi. It's really funny. It seems very out of place anyway, so now BHA Manley around me blames Ukraine for the war. How can they be culprit in this war? Can you have an episode to walk through? Why certain number of producers, journalists, and other team members are needed to cover a story?
Often the supporting crew doesn't get you recognition because news consumers like me don't know what happens in the [01:04:00] background more than the news. I love NLT and M bringing their varied views on a news event world is not black and white, and your views are what adds value to a new story.
Abhinandan: Thanks. So, um, just on your second piece, I've recommended a podcast in the past, uh, I think it was radio open source, which had a, in my view, a very good take on the Ukrainian war.
I mean, I don't think Mark Manley blaming UK Ukraine may be a little ridiculous, but there was a, I mean, I don't have a very firm position, but there's a very well made argument that NATO has to take as much blame as Russia for the war. Historical context cannot be. Stripped.
Manisha: Yeah.
Abhinandan: And Ukraine is a very small player in that, and I, I don't think it was a, a completely unreasonable position.
Manisha: Nu says, high team Trump with holding federal funding reminds me of what the Indian Union government is doing with language laws. Politically, the US is still catching up to India's anti-democratic legacy. We've had casteism long before they had racism and Nazis. This isn't just about the language, it's about Hindi, even if not openly stated, the one nation, one language, one [01:05:00] leader idea reeks a facet.
I don't use the F word lightly, but it fits here. Sanskrit now aggressively promoted, has castes history. It was once a language reserved for the elite and oppressed caste members were punished, even killed for trying to learn it. Why not uplift languages pushed to the brink by Hindi imposition instead?
All languages have value, but Sanskrit was systemically used to uphold cast hierarchies. Its revival is troubling when other languages still struggle for recognition. Northern Indians have learned. Sudden languages out of need, not imposition. That's how linguistic respect should work.
Jayashree: Hmm. That's a fact though.
I mean, it was a very elite language. Sure. And therefore very caste system the way it was used.
Abhinandan: You wanna now read the rest Jahi?
Jayashree: Yep. So Nannu Hassan Sheik says hello, I'm an India qualified lawyer working globally. Firstly, you guys do a great job. Whether that's Ani Hta nuisance, your interviews. I lived in London for four years and stayed connected to India through you.
Second, I'm dumbfounded that when the a a P lost Delhi, no one from YO to Raju [01:06:00] Parika to YouTube journalists addressed voter fraud. Media framed it as aaps failure, ignoring that they raised the same concerns as the Congress. Maybe this deserves coverage. Thirdly, south Central is fantastic. A similar project for the Northeast would be amazing.
And fourth, professor oas bpa, a senior constitutional lawyer, should be on your show. Best of luck.
Abhinandan: Okay, I'll make a note of his name as well. Thank you, Adan.
Jayashree: So Mohi has written two letters. The first one is questions on subscription and payment. So I think we can forward that to our team and they can figure, uh, the second letter says he wants to ask our stance on donations.
Would it be possible to create an NGO arm for news laundry, where people can contribute funds with 2024, drawing to a financial year, drawing to a close. I prefer to donate and claim it under Section 80 G rather than giving my money to the government. Where it'll end up in the pockets of legacy media in exchange for government ads and propaganda.
So you can design the cause. But a few ideas could be CSR activities aimed at educating underprivileged communities about good news or [01:07:00] supporting more internships with fair stipends to ensure that this new form of journalist con journalism continues to thrive.
Abhinandan: So just so you know, it was, I think we discussed this also, the of, um, reporters collective there at TG, which is what makes you tax exempt, status taken away.
And the government said that because journalism is not public interest, so, so yeah. Um, it, it won't work because the government decides if you get a tax exemption, you can set up an NGO, but you'll not get tax, um, benefits unless the government thinks so. And while the government will give you tax exemption on many other things, on news, they have.
They have made this statement in, in the case as well, I think. Yes.
Jayashree: 80 says As we continue searching for the best ways to handle emails, I suggest using AI to summarize them. We are doing, we are doing that 80 much as
Abhinandan: we speak, much to s chagrin Catholic. I
Jayashree: shake my chagrin
Abhinandan: fist at this, but yeah,
Jayashree: [01:08:00] Karthik says, uh, we love and praise incoming, a long time subscriber here.
I love the work you guys are doing, but what keeps me glued is abs viewpoints, his brash and unapologetic attitude in calling a spade a spade, and the utter disgust for the current government. I understand the disdain and angst to live in a country which recently seems to be full of morons and not really be able to change anything.
Karthik Cable
Anand: driver,
Jayashree: your recent podcast with. Made me write this. Please continue being yourself. Keep hosting. Please bring back s.
Abhinandan: Yeah. We should do Gar La Sketch again, Manisha.
Jayashree: Absolutely. Next is again, Paris Sja. Who says respected are interesting insight regarding reach of radio, why perhaps the government is not permitting news to be aired on FM in the 21st century with cheaper internet prices.
Podcasts could be an ideal substitute for radio and one of a dedicated daily or multiple times a [01:09:00] day news podcast by a credible news organization without the jingoism of TV news could be educational and impactful. Hmm. Now regarding the campus pay crackdown documentary, there are other ways to get your word across than graffiti.
If I wanna be in front of a VC office as a form of dissent, should I be allowed? I agree with a version's analysis of student politics on campus these days. Was he consulted before or while making the documentary?
Abhinandan: The documentary was not made by Anan, it was made by the person who made the documentary.
Manisha: No, he wasn't consulted. He wasn't. But um, also that wall of democracy is a dedicated space for graffiti graff. So it's not like they're going all over the campus. That wall of democracy has been painted over and comparing it to peeing in front of the VC's offices, like,
Abhinandan: yeah. Very different, correct.
Different
Jayashree: things. Yeah. Says hello. News has meaning because of the work your team does. I have a question related to the police impunity project. Can you walk us through the process followed for it? How does your team get related [01:10:00] reports? How do you validate or on dedicate these reports before arriving at conclusions?
Abhinandan: That's a very big thing, but so briefly if you can say that. How do you triangulate information? Written fir complaints. I
Jayashree: think also he's talking about like research reports on policing or something?
Raman: No, first, I mean, even before we suggested this for NL, we made, we first of all did a proper research, found cases in different states.
We found which states has got the maximum cases of police atrocity. Then we picked up because we can't do everything. Mm. So we picked up four or five such states. But even after that, we have found some very, uh, you know, brutal cases, say in a place like Raan. So we are going to take that case also. So what, and, and, and when we pick up a case, then we go for every minute details, right from the, we reconstruct.
So how the reconstruction will happen. The day [01:11:00] incident happens after that, we construct day one, day two, day three, day four,
Abhinandan: and, and a lot of information is whatever documentary evidence you can get. Yes, yes.
Jayashree: Ashwin says, I've been a subscriber several years, became a TNM member a year back. Great work. I was wondering if Raj is in touch with NL at all.
He'd been a great panelist considering the latest Kashmir attack and the cast census discussion. He was a great voice previously on these topics and for the tech team, anytime I have to pause an interview or video on the iPhone app and come back to it later refreshes, I lose the timestamp. So therefore I prefer to watch it on YouTube or Spotify.
Can you look into this? We will forward, we
Abhinandan: will just send that, uh, I'm sending a comment right now to the tech team.
Jayashree: Next is N Oh wait, sorry. Yeah, Maraj. We should bring him back as a panelist.
Abhinandan: Mm-hmm.
Jayashree: To talk about something N 7 4 7 says, I mean, and then South Central is performing better in discussions than you.
The discussion on the Supreme Court ruling on the Governor was way more deep and interesting than what was heard on Chacha or hta, which
Abhinandan: are [01:12:00] communicate that to Danya. Thank you for supporting South Central, but we'll try to make hafta better. Thank you.
Jayashree: A says, I know that I have with my Killjoy feminism made some harsh comments about AB in past letters, but after sitting through this week South Central with Mohan Spy, I take it all back.
Now that I know how bad it can be, I've become more appreciative of the HTA host. Well done AB take. You
Abhinandan: know, I have no idea how to react to the letter that now that I have listened to, man. That's why AB Banana isn't so bad. Yeah. You know, this is what you should put that on a Valentine's Day card for you.
This is I but love, this is like India says, we are not Pakistan. So that's how you should be happy. I dunno whether you're trying to insult me, but thank you. Anyway.
Jayashree: T says, I cannot believe both UL and Jay Sri Brushed aside the Battle of Thermo Pilot as folklore and hta. It most definitely isn't Top History podcast like Empire Rest is history of tackle it in detail.
The movie exaggerated it at all. Movies do, but it isn't folklore. [01:13:00] Okay. I'm sorry if I indicated it was for Clue because I do know it was a real event. So I did not mean to.
Manisha: Hmm.
Jayashree: Says hi, Niku. What is your view on the interview of your friend? Chaan Bagga with Karen Tapper?
Abhinandan: I'm not familiar with this Bagga interview.
Manisha: Um, maybe Karen, whatever, because was Yeah. Giving us few of interviews.
Abhinandan: I haven't watched you, Sue. Sorry, I I have no, um, I haven't watched it.
Jayashree: You are not a true friend, I think.
Abhinandan: Yeah.
Jayashree: Mother says in HCU bulldozer video with peacock voiceover is edited. What is HC that Hy Central University. But yeah, there was an AI video that was going around with sounds of peacocks screaming.
Manisha: Mm. Which
Jayashree: I had, uh, made a note of in one
Manisha: ofta saying that it was really, um, horrific to see videos and like peacocks go, but I, I didn't know it was edited.
Abhinandan: Oh, okay. That, oh, that famous thing that the Okay, got [01:14:00] it. Oh, thank you for pointing that out.
Jayashree: Ibrahim says, the discussion on the work will was good. I'd like it if you could get interviews of multiple Muslim voices on the issue, like Imran PR or Adi Ahmed plus the photo of the work that was used by you and many other media outlets.
It says in OU Hyper Work. I could not understand it until I saw the full photo, which says pr. Oh. I think the decline of du literacy in North India amongst all people is a one of the reasons for the decline in civility and intercommunity harmony, Ko,
Abhinandan: Zo, and Jo basically saying the difference of that one pronunciation changes what you do with someone. Very beautifully written email, Abraham, lovely. That is one of my biggest regrets in life, is after the fact that I did not learn Tamari, which is my biggest regret in life. My second biggest regret in life is that I did not learn Urdu.
Because it is really late. Not too late. Not [01:15:00] too late.
Jayashree: Time is there.
Abhinandan: Yeah. Awful. And awesome. You want me to learn two more languages,
Jayashree: right? Uh, next is sja. We've
Abhinandan: read three emails already, so this will have to wait for next time.
Jayashree: Um, next is Han who says, I've subscribed to analysis sometime now, which just got done with after 3, 5 30, where listeners said, aand then is disliked.
As a host, I would like to thoroughly disagree. I find Aand then to be engaging, reasonable, and thoughtful. He goes out of his way to acknowledge his own privilege and consider someone else's viewpoint. Thankfully, you exist. Keep up the good work. Thanks.
JAL says, adding something I thought was missed from the India Pakistan Champions trophy discussion ICC awarded Pakistan hosting rights in 2021, so it was not designed to give a trophy to India because they lost 2023 World Cup. As GHD said, I made it as I say it, as a joke, I did not mean it, but it was brought back in.
So [01:16:00] India and Pakistan play each other again because of money. The BCCI has an effective veto power at the ICC because of the money it brings in. Now the BCCI could have opposed iccs decision to avoid to award hosting rights to Pakistan citing security concerns, or it could have proposed a dual hosting arrangement.
It's unclear why they didn't choose to do so, especially when the son of the home minister is the head of the BCCI. And the home Ministry provides clearance to sports teams to visit Pakistan. As far as I know, in my opinion, waiting until the last minute not to send the team to Pakistan, was done to embarrass Pakistan, which is petty.
Abhinandan: Uh, but jael on this, I mean, I think it's just a power move because even while we refuse to play Pakistan or go to Pakistan to play certain sport of cricket, certain other sports are happening. So it's, yeah, it's this confused policy. It's not consistent. I mean, I, I have no view on it actually.
Jayashree: Rena says, I mean, and then, okay, so I'll just say this is a thousand word letter Al, but here is a shortened version of it.
Mm. And then rightly questioned, but the privatization [01:17:00] has alleviated poverty. The poverty line calculation seems flawed. In 20 11 12, the Federal Court Committee set it at eight 16 per month in rural areas and thousand rupees a month in urban areas. Now, if you adjust for inflation and gold price, the poverty line should be higher.
This discrepancy suggests many are classified as non poor, even though they struggle financially. The government's inclusion of subsidies and income calculations may also artificially reduce poverty figures. Now, regarding globalization, while it has increased purchasing power parity, it hasn't necessarily reduced poverty.
Many individuals are burdened with debt leading to long-term economic harm. Competition and economies benefits everyone, but it must be fair. Unregulated markets lead to monopolies, exploitation, market manipulation and privatization doesn't inherently lead to technological innovation. Private entities may excel in scaling and commercialization, but foundational innovations often stem from state sponsored research.
Opening core sectors like healthcare, education, energy to privatization may harm [01:18:00] societal welfare. I agree with this. Uh,
Abhinandan: I, I, I will say that I did not say that privatization has not alleviate poverty. I said that, of course, it's exaggerated, the benefit is done. But I have also said that the only way to actually pull people out of poverty is by encouraging private capital.
But privatization has a very different connotation. So, I mean, I just wanna make that clear. I, I don't think there's any historical evidence of a country without promoting private enterprise capital has been able to get people outta poverty unless it has an abundance of a resource that the world needs, like Qatar has oil, or Saudi has oil.
Or even, I mean, even in my view, the reason USSR could stand up to America's capitalism for so long is because it was one of the second or third largest reserves of oil in the world. If it did not have oil, it would not be able to. So it's, it's a little more complicated, but net net, I think. [01:19:00] Unless you have major judicial reform and, uh, institutions to address consumer, you know, um, unfairness, privatization can do a lot more damage than we think.
Jayashree: Next letter from Asha, who says, I appreciate the work you do, your fearless journalism is essential in times when speaking sense is becoming difficult. I contributed to the Hindu Rashta project for the following reasons. As a PhD student at IT I've seen many peers adopt rigid ideologies calling themselves Sani and thinking of themselves as alpha males.
Worryingly. They aren't, these aren't the worst students, but some of the best and their thinking is becoming increasingly narrow. I recall feeling uneasy back in 12 standard on 20 when the 2014 campaign was everywhere. While acknowledge flaws in the previous government, I disliked how caste and religion became central at that time.
But now, today, anyone questioning the dominant narrative is labeled a left winger. News. Laundry's. Independent journalism is critical. I deeply appreciate your [01:20:00] commitment.
Abhinandan: Thank you. Although I have still don't know it, I haven't heard this term used so much in all my life at all. Who? One Alpha male. I've only heard it in the last two, three years.
Manisha: Really?
Abhinandan: Yeah.
Manisha: It's very old. Yeah. Find beater.
Jayashree: Was it used like this?
Abhinandan: Alpha male. Alpha male? I don't remember any discussions about, yeah, like
Jayashree: see, romance novels have been using it for decades. Like
Abhinandan: Oh really?
Jayashree: Mil and boons and all will all have like even the ones that like our pet mothers and grandmothers and whatever, it will always talk about an alpha male.
But now it's used very like,
Abhinandan: so they used to use the word alpha male. Yeah. Okay.
Jayashree: He's the, he's the alpha.
Abhinandan: Okay, I didn't know that.
Jayashree: Next is from, uh, Oscar, who says, this is on the hafta conversation on Charlie Hebdo. Prophet Mohamed claimed to be a human. He was born, ate, food, and died, but he's probably the most scrutinized, praise and criticized person who walked the earth.
His influence extends to modern life across the globe. Everyone has [01:21:00] the freedom to accept or reject, disbelieve or believe, praise or criticize his teachings. Now, every instruction of the prophet is law. Please nuance between instruction, recommendation, and practice without verbiage. In this context, a lie has serious world implications.
For example, 72 versions is a fabrication that's been amplified by the media and people lost lives. Does creative freedom extend to fabrication, concoction, or lies in modern law? By definition, caricature or fiction is not authentic. Try European freedom to fact check the Holocaust or use accurate language for Palestine or wear a scarf.
Truth between the legs and fakes between the ears. Did Ramji say this taking creative freedom with, I feel like I'm not understanding
Abhinandan: the last bit, even the last bit I'm not understanding, but as far as, I don't know
Manisha: if Raman ever said that.
Abhinandan: Yeah.
Manisha: Sound like, does sound
Abhinandan: like him at all? Or maybe he is being ironic by saying I've taken creative liberty of Oh, assigning something.
I mean, I ger I [01:22:00] don't know what is the overall point you're making, but if you are saying that, I mean, it seems to me on the Charlie Abdo thing that no fabrication, whether you think it's fabrication is, can be justified. Uh, can murder be justified by that? And if someone wants to take that liberty, I mean, you can condemn them for it, but you can't murder them for it.
So I don't know what the context is, but if the context is Charlie. Maybe everything you say is true, but for me it has no value because nothing can justify killing 11 people. I don't care what they said. That's my view. Yeah,
Jayashree: it's undeniable that people tell wild lies, especially about Islam at this point of time, but end of the day, you can't murder.
It's, let's see. Uh, we above says, thank you for reading my email as expected. AB and then D defended his position saying There are no RS sympathizers in the [01:23:00] IAC except Ki Bailey. I beg to defer subsequent behavior from K two L and AP during shaheen b protest in arias as evidence enough that RSS ideology seeped in and was probably always there long before IAC was formed.
In fact, the overall formulation of the IAC movement of focusing on financial corruption was addressing mainly the middle and upper middle class of society where our influences widespread. This issue is close to my heart, so I've contributed a small sum to the Hindu Russia project. You guys are doing great work.
Abhinandan: I Anyone has a view on this? No, we discussed
Manisha: it so much.
Abhinandan: Yeah. I'm just wanna point out above, uh, just look up the following. What is IAC Uh, it's not a registered body. It was a movement. So of course I doubt I'll ever say that no one was part of IAC Sympathizer was not a bureau RS 'cause there is no way I can actually vouch for millions of people across the country.
What I specifically said was PCRF, which is the secretariat that actually [01:24:00] was the architect of this movement. And I was part of PCRF. In fact, I was the co-founder of PCRF and I struck the checks for Nu Travels. In that secretariat there was just one s sympathizer and that I can say with a hundred percent certainty, I can write 20 mails.
That does not change. Everything else you think could be true, but no one was thinking there'll be an app then.
Jayashree: Next email is from he Mima, uh, who says in a not so surprising development this week, uh, RA embark a zoo hopping spree for B Pet Project very long ago with the usual seems like, oh, yeah, yeah.
Feels like a year ago, but it wasn't with the usual entourage of celebrity, psycho fans and cricketers cheering on the spectacle. This occurred amidst a backdrop of lacks of crows being wiped off the stock market and the trade war ignited by the orange orangutan. Yet the public discourse remains fixated on Phoebe's and the notion that farmers aren't taxed conveniently overlooking the massive loan write-offs, benefiting [01:25:00] corporate giants.
And last five years alone, Indian banks have written off 7.26 lack, crows and Brad loans with only 64,526 rupees, crows crow rupees allocated the agricultural sector. There's a stock disparity favoring corporate defaulters of struggling farmers. It's perplexing how much the media and finance sectors focus on taxing farmers while ignoring the evident collusion between government and corporates.
Perhaps it's easier to target the vulnerable than to confront the powerful, so as the race to the Boston accelerates, which it is crucial to question these priorities and demand accountability.
Abhinandan: Fair enough.
Jayashree: Harnick says In the mid 17th century, guru Hara, the seventh Sikh guru was summoned by mug Emperor Orang to explain his support for Dara Shiko.
During the war of Succession, unable to attend personally due to an illness, guru Hara sent his eldest son Rai to to represent him. During the meeting, RAI altered a verse from the ARI grants to avoid offending the emperor. This led to his [01:26:00] excommunication from the Sikh community. RAI then established a religious center in the Dune Valley, granted land by Raja f Sha, gal under ORs patronage.
This settlement known as Rai's Dera is believed to have given there are owner's name. Hmm. The guru Rai SA Sahi completed in 1707 features Indo Islamic architecture reflecting the AL influence due to RA's relationship with Zi Now, or Z's complex legacy includes both oppression and patronage as he supported RAI endeavors while maintaining strict control over his empire.
It stands as testament to this nuanced history.
Abhinandan: That is interesting. I just love our subscribers. They know so much. Thank you. Excellent email.
Jayashree: And the next email is from Shi K, who says. The focus on BSP is dwindling. Electoral fortunes made the episode riveting. He is referring to an episode of hta. BSP has a lot in common with the A A P with respect to delusions of Grande BSP [01:27:00] fielded candidates and looks of our polls across India.
Even though knowing full well they have abysmal strike rates and zero presence outside up, except perhaps some districts in MP bordering up Mati is not India's Obama. She has several things going for her. Like India has special evidence for politicians with our blood relatives and legal or illegal hairs.
Indians also have a soft corner for tough women. Politicians, mati tick both these boxes. However, she could not transcend her Dali, Baja, and B boundary. The collaboration with Satish Mishra was a local cosmetic change. Obama ticked the boxes of being black, which is important to the left being heteronormative family man, important for American, right, and he spoke of livelihoods health and soft inclusion, which is important for all.
Maya Withi that way lacked a third and fourth dimension.
Abhinandan: Good in that is Han.
Jayashree: The next email is from Sja who talks about the language debate. She says, A lot of uninformed opinions have been thrown around by people who probably never had to learn three languages simultaneously as a child in our school system, but I [01:28:00] have, and it was not a pleasant experience.
The debate ignores the fact that languages are best learned when there is a need for it. All the children learn faster, depends entirely on how these lessons are delivered. I know a couple who raised their children to speak two languages, Tegu and Bengali by talking to them in their respective mother tongues.
Their children also spoke Tamar as they live in Cheney and English, of course. So the question is not for the children can learn three languages, but whether what is taught in school qualifies as a subject to tick off a checklist or language is a means of communication. Perhaps it's time for time for an expert on how languages are learned to weigh in on the debate.
Abhinandan: I completely agree with she.
Jayashree: I mean, I was taught Hindi in school, but we taught only because they had to be.
Abhinandan: I think you learned so much by just what. Yeah. I think one has to approach it very differently than how we are.
Jayashree: Dave d says Hello Hafta team. You are discussing cricket controversies in Hafta five to eight.
The only cricket controversy that should be discussed that is the only one that affects the common people is this juxtapose two scenes. Number one, during India's [01:29:00] Pakistan game, Kar and Shahi, the free mingled after years of spreading animosity in their own respective ways. And the second scene is from Ashia, the consequence of all the animosity created around this Kandar game.
That was a headline in Haha 5 27. He's talking about a boy who was arrested for shouting slogans during India Pakistan match.
Manisha: Mm-hmm.
Jayashree: So he says the 15-year-old boy was arrested, a Muslim up immigrant parent, his Muslim up immigrant parents scrap shop was demolished. Mr. Raney did what he does best. The passerby was a VHP worker.
Bail was received, but the boy cannot leave the state. The rule is this elites, including journalists, can mingle and show affinity towards Pakistan. But the common man cannot.
Abhinandan: I completely with Dave D it is ridiculous and I think whether you are cheering for one country or the other to be arrested for that is bizarre.
When I was young, I remember my generation had a hu Va, um, BAK was much later. Va [01:30:00] VA had such a huge fan base.
Manisha: Yeah. The way
Abhinandan: people used to clap when Vasima got even Indian out. 'cause we used to watch it in groups in the common room. It is huge. Today, kilo as well. I think it is so idiotic and these politicians are making the most of it because people are thrilled with the possibility of, yeah.
Jayashree: Next is anonymous. Who said I found the Hafta episode regarding English language? I free speech at most. Very insightful. Here was an observation. As a corporate employee with prior experience in working in a public sector bank, I've seen firsthand how systems favor those in power. During a cab ride.
Recently, the driver criticized the AL government by praising the central government. After we chatted further, he revealed his affiliation with the BAL and ais. Having attended their camps, he shared a viral video of SZA Williams allegedly mentioning the BBA Gita and garish idols, claiming they aided her safe return from space.
This video is from 2013. It's been debunked as fake news, and the driver, despite his affiliation, was unaware of government schemes and said he was facing a [01:31:00] personal debt due to lack of awareness. This highlights how misinformation can drown out rational discourse in public spaces.
Abhinandan: No doubt. So Sadat says, hi El team.
I want to say that people like Shaba in today's world like G Sababa, who suffered tragically because of politicians and courts bail not granted for a 90% crippled person is a Crip crippling system. I see politicians getting house arrests, but not a crippled person. Protests should happen for them, rather than three 50-year-old issues for which none of the current generation is responsible.
If our exam's death place needs to be removed, people should file an issue in court and then a judge will decide it's fate and to think how stupid it is if a prominent person dies now because of a system and three 50 year later someone is destroying the cremation site. Sarah, there's too much reason and logic in your mail, but yeah, I hear what you're saying.
Then the says. Hello. Everyone liked her discussion on nationalism and patriotism. Manisha mentioned she loves [01:32:00] India as an Indian people, including those from VJP kin, to saying she loves all things Indian, including seafield rivers and polluted cities. That's harsh, which is of course untrue because Manisha like many loves some idea of India, which exists in her head.
It might be ne Nian Indian, her vision. So she doesn't love everything Indian. She doesn't love a rapist Indian, nor a caste Indian does. She hope not. This is not an attack on Manisha. What she said is a line often repeated by almost everyone without ever concentrating on what it means. And many times it is used to hide some issue or to silence someone who is speaking about some issue.
Have sent rest in mail. Well, you read your mail, Niraj, Manisha, anything you have to say. Do you love all Indians? Like each and every one?
Manisha, Abhinandan, Jayashree: Yes.
Abhinandan: Okay.
Manisha, Abhinandan, Jayashree: All of them.
Abhinandan: Shall I start taking,
Manisha, Abhinandan, Jayashree: shall I start names? Start singing? Shall I start
Manisha: taking
Manisha, Abhinandan, Jayashree: the lyrics? [01:33:00] Man, my,
Manisha: she,
Abhinandan: she truly. Then Manan Sha says, in Rean, in India, privilege is complex. There's gender, there's caste, there's money, et cetera. Every inequality in India, apart from gender, is a manifestation of caste. Economic privilege has direct correlation to caste, apart from limited expectations.
Caste system itself is very complex and also a function of geography. The way we were taught in school, the hierarchy, Shari and Dali, that was a British, um, model of complex hierarchy. The models only use us to control or administer the population of a subcontinent. Often most people think that this hierarchy is what set in stone, and when things don't seem like that, they say caste system doesn't exist.
The model is not very useful when you want to study Indian reality or do something about it. In fact, it hinders progress in real sense because it overlooks subdivisions among each. Yeah, you're right. It does overlook subdivisions among and geography also.
Manisha: Hmm,
Abhinandan: that's Vasel [01:34:00] says, kill Tony. The show on which India's got latent is based did a hilarious episode with two guys on the panel, impersonating Trump and Biden.
It's an old episode, uh, regardless of us' institutional failings as a state, it made me realize that we in India can never reach that level of Indi individual freedom as theirs, especially in terms of media where in a comic show two guys, IM person an absolute stereotype, two of the most powerful men in the country, and not get slapped with everything ranging from PMLA to NI and UAPA.
It was hilarious episode though and would be decent to watch if you're looking for a hearty love on this arm on your team. It's many others here who say, no, no, India's, we are ahead of America. What
Jayashree: I say, America shit for India is more shit. How dare you.
Abhinandan: If you saw the last episode of Jimmy Kimmel, this Marley Taylor Green, he made a joke at her.
She said, and it was a joke that it didn't even reference violence. He just [01:35:00] said, look at, she says, oh, she tagged the police. As I'm filing a police complaint, this man is advocating violence against me. I want whatever the LA police to take action. He retweeted her saying, dear La Police, I'd like to report a joke, and he was completely chilled about it.
Can you imagine someone of the equivalent states of Marrie Taylor Green tagging the cops in our country because of a joke? Someone made his arrest and
Manisha: commit responding.
Abhinandan: It would, it would. The arrest would happen before he could even respond. Dude, it would happen in five minutes. Yeah. Then Joey says, hello.
Mr. Ary has a recent subscriber to news on React. Commend the team for its insightful h episodes, territories, and interviews. The recent investigative piece on Oroville was particularly poignant. So this was done in partnership with Newsmen, right? Yes. So it was newsman reporter. We must send this.
Jayashree: Puja.
Pressana.
Abhinandan: Puja. Pressana. So Puja has done this Thank you. Puja as climate change and [01:36:00] sustainability consultant who visited Orville multiple times. For 2021, I was disheartened to see the dismantling of its green ecosystem.
Manisha: Hmm.
Abhinandan: Orville has long champion principles like agroforestry, waste management, and eco-friendly infrastructure even before the Paris Agreement.
It's perplexing that Orville hasn't been designated a UNESCO World Heritage site, which could have ensured its preservation. Instead, under the leadership of Gora Kada bureaucrats, there's a push for redevelopment that prioritizes commercialization over consumers foundational values. Over the commune Foundation value, sorry.
The current governance approach seems to favor urban expansion, infrastructure development. Sidelining the community's originally ethos of collective wellbeing. Orville's transformation into a center of excellence for sustainable living could have been a model for the world. Regrettably, the ongoing changes threatened to erode its unique identity.
Thank you for reviving. Investigative journalism, QoS, once again to your team for in depth reporting. So, yeah, I agree. I I went to Orville [01:37:00] several years ago. I mean, it's, it was really a case study, man. A fascinating case study. Finally, I'm gonna read two, three quick mails that leaves just about 17 odd males, which you shall come to next time.
Uh, so this one is from Vaal again, whistle RO from Ministry of External Affairs raised some serious concerns about high level corruption. Now, I don't know how, um, you know, credible they were or not, but yes, I saw he had tagged me Also, I, I'm not sure what is the specific allegation, but Zel the um. I, I don't know if anyone's really investigated this.
No.
Raman: He made some allegations, uh, you know, wherever he served abroad with MEA and he, he just made some allegations against his colleagues.
Abhinandan: I see. So now I
Raman: very difficult for us to, you know, cross. Yeah. I mean, that, that's, and we don't, I mean, we want issues. We want
Abhinandan: No. Also, I had got a call a long [01:38:00] time ago alleging something again specific about, but those are not verifiable.
So it's, it's very difficult one. Then Mad Sharma says, with reference to Hafta 5 32, the audio clip of Trump cabinet meeting, it'd be interesting to get a peep into more theses cabinet meetings to show that we are Isha gurus. Ma, then you're absolutely right. This would be, but I think in Modi's cabin meeting don't have the guts to even speak, even to praise him.
I think that would be the level. And then Aji Mohan say refusing services of Muslim service providers is terrible. We have colleagues who are refusing to go to Muslim barbers because they're concerned that the barber will slit their throat abi mohana. You need to stop, hang out with these kind of colleagues.
And I really, please tell me where you work. I won't read it out, but mail me and tell you where you work at. Like, I'll tell you,
Raman: nobody's very Right. I cannot see them refusing the instruc instruction
Abhinandan: of Muslim seniors though. No, he's saying, but if a Muslims gives them instruction, they'll obey, but they'll not do Muslim.
They, 'cause the barber may cut his [01:39:00] throat. My God.
Manisha: But look at the kind of, um, narrative we see across, uh, the certain thing. It's literally every time you turn on the channel, it seems like some Muslim is out there lurking to do certain. So I feel like that. I mean, I don't agree with this obviously, and I get why you're disgusted with it, but there is a lot of push towards this sort of propaganda across the mainstream media everywhere.
Raman: I have seen a couple of every
Manisha: telling you that you think, yes, it's a valid fear, they will
Raman: do this. No, no. The reason is so widespread. I've seen, uh, a couple of places, you know, small places of course, which had just one barber shop of run by Muslims. Now, to counter that, there is a Hindu barber shop as well.
Abhinandan: Yeah. This is happening all
Manisha: over the place. No, this is happening in fact, on that Sharma thing, when in that case I actually, I want to know, follow up, what happened to that case? Those two men, where did they come from? What really happened? Have they been punished? Where is the case going? But, 'cause I remember back then also on the back of that case, again, [01:40:00] intense propaganda that everyone is suspicious.
Like you better be worried where you go next. 'cause this may happen to you
Abhinandan: Then says at proper, the anti-Muslim sentiment and the activities of podge. Violent revolutionary who was caught and deported in the 1870s, born an eerie resemblance to events in Man Kim's book. Alarmed the author removed even minor anti British utterances.
Thus, the book acquired a more marked anti British tone. Please see Sumit Gunnar's book, the History and Collective Memory in South Asia, 1200 2020 19 PP 1 37. That's a page, et cetera. I would add my opinion of Open News, knowledge of Bengali, but an old friendship space and discretion constrain me.
Manisha: I love it.
And this you had said that, uh, you Yeah.
Anand: Open News. I have cited his interview. Mm-hmm. He, his interview with Open Magazine.
Abhinandan: Right. So, so Priya says that she's an old friend, but she's clearly understanding of [01:41:00] Bengali is not satisfactory from. Her Bengali standards. Right. On that note, we will finish. We just have about 15 emails left and we shall read these next time because we have got these collected over almost three months.
Tell us what you think of this format, because it's a lot more manageable from our point of view. 'cause there is no way we can accommodate all the males that come in every hafta. Uh, but this way we can discuss males, we can actually reflect on the feedback and actually absorb it because we've taken our time going over each email.
But we should also give recommendations this time. It conveys one recommendation each. Anyone has any. I can start if you like.
Jayashree: I have one recommendation, which is actually, it's something I read long back, but I was thinking of recently. There's an old book by Rajiv Ker called Imperial Life in the Emerald City, Rajiv Chan.
And he was, I think Washington Posts, uh, [01:42:00] bureau chief in Baghdad. And it's a very interesting sort of, it talks about the American occupation of Iraq, the Waldorf enclave that they all lived in, in the green zone. You know, it was really posh. All the swimming pools, all the villas, that was where the Americans were headquartered.
So it talks about what life was like in that small cutoff, unreal sort of place in the vacuum of the war. So yeah, that is my recommendation.
Abhinandan: Um, aan do you have any recommendation? You don't have to this week. I mean, we usually haveta, but I just thought since we are sitting on a hafta special, uh,
Anand: three, four males were, uh, forwarded to me, middle of it came directly to me, so, okay.
Uh, they asked a question and so I am converting it into a recommendation, right. The answer. So they asked me to give more. Maybe there were students who, uh, who, who, who wanted to know about. Uh, Ashoka's, elaborate influence over India's diplomacy. So I had mentioned in afta that, [01:43:00] uh, task and agreement had Ashoka influence and, uh, the similar agreement and how Nru valued, uh, ashoka's diplomatic value.
So one is Bert's book. I had also reviewed it and interviewed him. Mm-hmm. Uh, or also, uh, so ne. Also viewed him like Ashoka propagated, uh, Buddhism to South Asian countries that we know. He sent Mahindra and all, uh, so, uh, like Sri Lanka and others, uh, other countries of Southeast Asia. So he had, he was perhaps seen as the, uh, nru also, she saw him as first ambassador of India soft power.
Hmm. So Buddhism, so that diplomatic, uh, hefty that Ashoka had, no Indian emperor had, apart from also his arc of, uh, his [01:44:00] plateaus manifestation of philosophy king that he had. So, so UL's book also, uh, Ashoka, a, a book on Asan Empire. Uh, many, many you can see. Um, but sma uh, also Rome tapper, uh. MA's, uh, book on MAs and Ashoka's diplomatic influence.
So these are my recommendations as well, my answers to your questions.
Raman: There are two documentaries, one on Geo Hotta. Hmm, on the way I see it. Uh, this is, uh, you know, uh, story, uh, you know. I mean, the anchor is, uh, official White House photographer, uh, during Obama time and Ronald Reagan, and he had very intensively, uh, extensively, you know, taken pictures of Obama, uh, after Trump came in.
So he. Wanted to protest it that [01:45:00] the Pres American president has to be a serious man. So he started showing those pictures on Instagram. Hmm. And he became so popular. So somebody made a documentary on his pictures. Obama picture pictures are absolutely superb. And, uh, it's called The Way I See It on Geo Hot.
And second, I think, uh, most of us know what happened with, uh, Osama Bin Lain, uh, American, uh, manhunt, Osama Bin Lain three part series. Mm-hmm. Okay. I think it's a very well structured and yeah. Well told, uh, story. It, it chronologically they have put up the entire, uh, video story, which is pretty good. Quite gripping.
Right
Abhinandan: mania.
Manisha: I watched a mini series over the weekend Dying for Sex, which is, um, about a terminally ill patient. It's very beautiful tender. Um, the female friendship plot and is very nice and refreshing. So maybe you can watch it, but it's a bit depressing. [01:46:00]
Abhinandan: Right. Uh, I have two recommendations both we spoke about and there was some emails about that.
One is, uh, on capitalism, capitalism at its critics. I think it's a fantastic conversation on radio open source with, uh, New York, uh, magazine writer, uh, John Cassidy, and
Anand: written a book on
Abhinandan: this. Yes. A recent book He's written. A recent book. Exactly. So he discusses that book and I think it is a, a pretty fair and balanced and not balanced for the sake of balancing a view of capitalism, certain value that, of course societies derive from it and what its biggest failings and weaknesses are.
If at all, they can be addressed without throwing the whole system out all together. And the second is, is Trump losing a debate? The Ezra Klein show where he has, uh, guests, uh, one of whom has, uh, just written a long piece on what he calls competitive authoritarianism. And he has [01:47:00] compared, um, you know, four countries and four rulers, including Mr.
Modi and how they are actually trying to, you know, hack away institutions at the similarities of the mechanisms they use. And it is striking the similarities. So on that note, thank you so much for writing in. Tell us if you like this format, if you have any ideas or suggestions on how we should address all the emails.
'cause we get so many and we really want to address them. Do write into us@podcastatnewsroom.com. Until then. Fantastic week we leave you with this song just because I really love it and I just discovered it. Thank you, Ram, sir. Thank you Manisha. Thank you Anan. Thank you. Thank you for wonderful producer Ashish, and thank you to our sound recorders.[01:48:00]
Song: Hey,
Manisha: thank you for your subscription. You are changing the world by changing the way news is funded. For the smoothest news laundry experience, download the News Laundry app. It is the best way to listen to our paywall podcasts, and you'll also get access to all free news laundry shows. Keep us ad free and subscriber funded.
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