Andrew Marr has called out Boris Johnson for “saying something that isn’t true” when discussing wages during an interview.
As the Conservative Party conference kicked off in Manchester today, Marr was in Salford to grill the Prime Minister on a number of topics including women’s safety after the murder of Sarah Everard, the HGV shortage, and increasing taxes.
Another area that was discussed was wages, and Johnson was keen to get the message across that they are increasing.
He told Marr: “What you're also seeing is finally growth in wages, after more than 10 years of flat-lining what you’re seeing is people on low incomes being paid more and by the way, here an example -”
However, Marr interrupted Johnson to challenge him on this point.
“– Can I come directly to that, because you’ve said something that isn’t true I’m afraid, you’ve said something that isn’t true about wages -”
Though Johnson quickly responded and remained insistent that they were.
“- Wages are growing,” he replied.
#Marr: "You've said something that isn't true I'm afraid"#Marr challenges Boris Johnson over ONS figures showing UK wages not keeping pace with inflation
— BBC Politics (@BBCPolitics) October 3, 2021
PM: "After more than 10 years of flat lining wages… people on low incomes are being paid more"https://t.co/oF2aD6oMSS pic.twitter.com/w3dP8EF07X
But Marr didn’t stop there and referred to data from the Office of National Statistic.
He said: “The Office of National Statistics, the ONS, your our own body, in the last reporting period – the three months running to July – says that wages are not keeping pace with inflation.
“So in other words, in real terms, over the last three months, wages have gone down, not up.”
As Marr continued talking, Johnson appeared to be shaking his head in disagreement, to which Marr responded: “You’re shaking your head but these are ONS government figures.”
But Johnson refused to relent and replied: “No, wages are finally going up for the low paid and they’re going up faster by the way than they are for those on high incomes and about time too.”
“Well, that’s not what the numbers are showing,” Marr remarked.
“That is what the numbers are showing,” Johnson hit back. “And it’s about time we had that in this country – wages have been totally flatlining for more than a decade and what we would rather do is help people into better paid, better-skilled jobs which is what is happening.”
Johnson then referred to the lifetime skills guarantee, the kickstart schemes, “massive investment” in FE [Futher Education] colleges.
He added: “I’d much rather see that, Andrew, than raising taxes to subsidise low pay.”
Since the exchange was aired, people were quick to criticise the prime minister for not accurately reflecting the situation with wage growth.
Deputy Labour leader, Angela Rayner reiterated Marr’s point about how the ONS figures contradict Johnson’s claim.
Boris Johnson said that wages are rising. That is a lie, real wages are falling. The average worker is over £1,000 worse off today than they were in 2010 and the government’s own figures show it.
— Angela Rayner (@AngelaRayner) October 3, 2021
Labour MP for Tottenham David Lammy described Johnson’s claim as “an insult to families facing petrol shortages, rising prices and falling wages this winter.”
What an insult to families facing petrol shortages, rising prices and falling wages this winter.
— David Lammy (@DavidLammy) October 3, 2021
Instead of excuses and empty promises, Boris Johnson needs to set out how he plans to fix the mess he’s made https://t.co/in74irBgrQ
Alistair Campbell praised Marr for calling out Johnson’s claim, tweeting: “This should happen every time it happens.”
This should happen every time it happens. Which is pretty much every time he speaks https://t.co/Bb4D1P6csn
— ALASTAIR CAMPBELL (@campbellclaret) October 3, 2021
Daily Mirror’s Online Political Editor Dan Bloom also shared “a key chart” from the ONS, showing that it was wages dipping last year that caused a “bounce back.”
He also added a key quote from ONS who said: “It would clearly be misleading to use such large and distorted annual growth rates as an indicator of the health of the UK economy.”
Key chart from the ONS - wages dipped down last year, so consequently bouncing back now, despite what Boris Johnson said.
— Dan Bloom (@danbloom1) October 3, 2021
And the key ONS quote: "It would clearly be misleading to use such large and distorted annual growth rates as an indicator of the health of the UK economy.” pic.twitter.com/AiE3Iy3VBe
Meanwhile, there were plenty of other people who praised Marr’s interview while also criticising Johnson’s response.
This is our problem in a nutshell. He lies. He’s told he’s lied. He lies again.
— Emma Kennedy💙 (@EmmaKennedy) October 3, 2021
He could sit in a red box and tell everyone it’s blue. He has worked out lying works for him. https://t.co/UEdSE6f6gn
Hallelujah!, finally @BBCOne calling out @BorisJohnson as the liar he is and he still has the arrogance to deny his own governments statistics https://t.co/1oIG6i8Odt
— Nick Pritchard (@nickpritchard7) October 3, 2021
Finally someone holding this government to account. Thanks #marr https://t.co/ae8zxmDGj6
— Alex Wiseman (@AlexLeeWiseman) October 3, 2021
“You’ve said something that isn’t true, you’ve said something that isn’t true about wages…”
— Dr Mike Galsworthy (@mikegalsworthy) October 3, 2021
Good. At last #Marr is starting to directly address the fact that Boris Johnson does not deal in truth, as a habit, and it needs to be said bluntly. pic.twitter.com/O3EkHj9ane
It's very disturbing that we have a Prime Minister that can flat out lie even in the face of actual data and statistics that show the opposite. https://t.co/xuiLcmK0rP
— casey rain aka s-endz (@CaseyRain) October 3, 2021
'That isn't true..' We need more of this type of no nonsense intervention. https://t.co/xXtY9AWK6Z
— Greg Wright (@gregwrightYP) October 3, 2021
He just can't help himself can he. Boris just lies and lies and lies. He even refutes his own figures 😂 https://t.co/tnE8UT9d60
— Andrew Woodhouse (@woody2goody_uk) October 3, 2021
Look at him just flat out ignore the statistics provided by his own governing body, choosing instead to insist without statistical evidence that he is right and everything rosy. There has and never will be any intention to raise wages for those in lower income jobs. https://t.co/XjQV51qiQF
— Joe Crispin (@Joe_Crispin) October 3, 2021
He has just ignored the facts from the ONS. He only believes what he wants to believe.
— Garry Pickles (@garrypickles) October 3, 2021
He is living in a Brexit fantasy land. https://t.co/1GtclrPqFq
How Boris Johnson “gaslights”, the nation & some of you believe it! Well done #Marr for calling out the ONS “actual” FACTS 👍🤣 #BorisTheLiar https://t.co/lrAVb6WBjg
— AlisonHewitt (@AlisonHewitt) October 3, 2021
BBC Newsnight’s Policy Editor Lewis Goodall described how “success of Conservative self-renewal in office means that the third Conservative Prime Minister in a row can tacitly criticise the economic model/performance of his own party over a decade and it barely causes a ripple.”
This is in reference to Johnson, who said wages have been flat-lining for “more than 10 years” which is the same length of time that the Conservatives have been in power for.
Much to unpack here. Perhaps most striking is the extent of success of Conservative self-renewal in office means that the third Conservative Prime Minister in a row can tacitly criticise the economic model/performance of his own party over a decade and it barely causes a ripple. https://t.co/fBSUWugsOC
— Lewis Goodall (@lewis_goodall) October 3, 2021
While others were also quick to point out this observation too.
There are two big issues in this clip.
— Edwin Hayward 🦄 🗡 (@uk_domain_names) October 3, 2021
1. Boris Johnson lies about wages rising, and persists with the lie even after he's called out on it.
2. Boris Johnson admits that wages have stagnated for a decade, but delivers this info as if the Tories weren't in charge the whole time. https://t.co/oaMUEX0bEZ
Who does Boris Johnson think has been in power for the last 10 years, overseeing the decline in the value of wages? https://t.co/Lr5ykJoSFz
— Steven 'Toshk' Shelley (@Toshk) October 3, 2021
Who was in charge the last ten years? 🤔
— Andy Newtown (@NewtownAndy) October 3, 2021
Wages have flatlined for a decade, if only there'd been a Tory government for a decade........ What?......... Ah 🤦
— Haggy Haggath (@Hagster69) October 3, 2021
At no point does he mention that those ten years of flat lining wages have come under successive conservative governments!!! https://t.co/Yi0GgM5VGs
— John (@johnkel99) October 3, 2021
10 years of poor wages, hmm. Wonder who have been in power for those 10 years 🤔🤔 https://t.co/sA3QiSCUge
— Jacob Murphy (@jacobmurphy94) October 3, 2021
Alao love how he says wages have been totally flatlining for over a decade as if they haven't been in power during that whole period https://t.co/MSbOl2rvpo
— Grace (@GraceP0WER) October 3, 2021
