The popular central Liverpool pub the Fly in the Loaf – it was an old bakery – seemed to be full of drinkers most nights I have passed it. Last Wednesday evening there were an additional 80 people crammed into its upstairs room, some to drink but all of them to take part in a discussion about the state of the Labour party. I was chairing the meeting, while Guardian photographer Christopher Thomond captured proceedings – this article showcases some of his images.
It is to their credit that so many were prepared to turn out on a wet midweek evening to discuss politics. And it is to their credit that the meeting was conducted in a comradely, respectful fashion, each speaker listened to politely, with only the odd interjection.
- Above The surroundings of Fly in the Loaf pub in central Liverpool, venue for the Guardian’s Labour & Liverpool meeting. All photographs by Christopher Thomond
The meeting was organised by the Guardian as part of the Labour & Liverpool project to try to encourage more interchange between journalists and readers and to see where such a collaboration might lead.
Given how polarised Labour has become, with complaints of intimidation and of bullying at constituency party meetings, I wondered in advance if we could get through 90 minutes without a bad-tempered exchange or someone being barracked.
With a broad spectrum of views in the room, from proud Blairites to one of the prominent members of Militant in the 1980s – there was the potential for displays of bad temper. But it all passed trouble-free. Mouths were mostly clamped shut while others spoke, the temptation to heckle resisted.
The closest thing to a flashpoint came when a woman, seated, asked a speaker standing behind her to stop jabbing his finger into her shoulder blades. But she said it with a smile.
- Above Participants listen intently to the debate upstairs at the Fly in the Loaf
Normally, reporting such a meeting, I would make a point of catching speakers during or afterwards to get more details, such as age, occupation, background in politics, get their full names and check spellings. But as I was juggling reporting with chairing the meeting, a few of these details are missing.
Recurring themes on the evening were: Labour should be welcoming the new influx of members; the divide over Jeremy Corbyn’s performance as leader; disapproval with the attempted coup by the parliamentary Labour party; and, in a foretaste of what might come after the leadership contest if Corbyn wins, several expressions of support for mandatory reselection of MPs.
Opposition was expressed against other leftwing groups reportedly seeking to infiltrate Labour. “We are a democratic socialist party,” one of those speaking at the pub said. “Not revolutionary socialists.”
Another said he had felt intimidated from speaking up at party meetings, saying he had been called a “Red Tory” and “a traitor”. “The minute you say something that deviates from the line you are just leapt upon and I have been quite scared to share my views at times,” he said.
This is a small and random selection of the views expressed.
Amy Lonton
Social work student (25) who, like others in the audience, said she had grown up during the Blair years when Labour politicians were slick and what she found refreshing about Corbyn is that he is not.
“I do not need him to tell me what he thinks about anything. I just trust him to do the right thing,” she said, winning one of the loudest bursts of applause of the evening. “He has spent his whole life – not just through words but through actions – showing me what he believes and standing up for things that other people are not willing to stand up for. And that is so refreshing. And I just think. ‘Come on. This is our chance.’”
[Could Corbyn win a general election?] “If I am perfectly honest, I haven’t got a bloody clue. But I am willing to give it a shot. It is our only shot. Our only chance.”
Sarah Maclennan
An academic, she is pro-Corbyn, in part because of his views on tuition fees and other issues affecting the younger generation. But has found herself becoming increasingly irritated by him, and the lack of an effective united opposition from Labour in general.
“When I listen to him on the radio, I turn the radio off because he is not inspiring me. I don’t know what he thinks. I listened to him on Jeremy Vine and ended up shouting in the car because I could not make sense of what he was talking about … It just feels like such a mess. It is making me despair. The danger is that we end up speaking in this echo chamber that is Twitter, the social media. That is why the last election was such a shock. They were preaching to the choir again.
“Theresa May’s speech. There was not anything in that speech I could argue with. She has stolen all Labour’s policies. I know she won’t deliver. But she sounded convincing and inspiring and that is what we are lacking at the moment. I like the policies of Jeremy Corbyn but he is not convincing me.” Another round of applause.
- Above Participants including Jim Hollinshead and Neville Jones at the Fly in the Loaf
Richard Knights
A supply teacher in Sefton, on a zero-hours contract. Described as “another of the Militant fanatics” by former Labour MP Peter Kilfoyle in his book Left Behind, his account of tackling the organisation in the 1980s, Knights was expelled by Labour in 1990 and again in 2015.
“The membership of the Labour party has absolutely exploded. That is something that should be welcomed. Constituency meetings, ward meetings, there were a handful of people there. The Labour party has done nothing for years. Really that(the influx of new members) has to be welcomed. You have young people joining. Old people joining. There is a deep disillusionment with establishment politics.
“I think what many people feel, including those who did not support Corbyn, was absolute disgust with the way the coup was played out on television. Every hour there was surprise and another resignation. And the next hour there is another resignation … It was all orchestrated. We should be fighting the Tories.”
Joe Scott
Investment banker (31) who has been in the Labour party for seven years. Raised a laugh when he said he probably had the least popular job in the room. He said he had been embarrassed during a conversation about pensions and savings and someone asked what the Labour policy was and who in the shadow cabinet was responsible. No one knew.
“It is great that we are getting all these new members with Jeremy Corbyn. And it is right that not everyone has to do the (professional) MP thing. But being professional is actually having someone who knows what they are talking about in that department. If you have only 40 people spread over what is 90-something positions – and some of them are doing three jobs – you are literally not running the party how you should be. And his job description is to lead the party. And I do think there is a massive problem.”
Richard Jacques
Software engineer (61), St Helens North constituency Labour party
“Do I support Owen Smith? I am still trying to make up my mind … Everybody has moved the debate to the left. But we still need an effective leader in parliament. What Jeremy is great at is getting on his soapbox and saying the things we believe in and agree in … I am kind of half supporting Owen Smith simply because Owen is the representative of the parliamentary Labour party.”
Rita
Wallasey constituency party
“I have been a Labour member for more than 40 years. I can’t remember how long. My first vote was for Harold Wilson so there you go. I spent the last 40 years pounding pavements delivering leaflets trying to get a Labour government elected. I can actually say to you that when Tony Blair won that election that was one of the happiest days of my life … I did not vote for Jeremy Corbyn but I was prepared to give him a chance and I still am. I am absolutely dismayed at what is going on now. I went to a meeting last week in Wallasey, which was not an official Labour party meeting but it kind of was … Person after person stood up in this Wallasey meeting and vilified Angela Eagle and said ‘We will get rid of her whatever way we can. We do not want her.’ I could have cried. I spent years supporting Angela Eagle. She is a good person. She is very good MP and all these people who have joined recently are now standing up saying ‘we are going to get rid of her’. Somebody tell me where we have gone wrong.”
Edd Mustill
Student (28) from Liverpool Riverside constituency, one of the original members of Merseyside Momentum
“I am quite disappointed all this stuff is happening this summer. I think it is a huge distraction. It is a shame that a time when we really need to be holding the government to account, at a time of national crisis following the Brexit, at a time when none of us really know where the country is going, what the government’s plan is, we have been turned in on ourselves and we have not been turned in on our ourselves by Jeremy Corbyn or Momentum but by the majority of the parliamentary Labour party behaving the way they have … I am in favour of mandatory re-selection of MPs, by the way, for all MPs, whether left or right. I think there is no other position I that I know of in the entire Labour movement where you do not have to be reselected after a certain amount of time.”
- Above Participants including Ben Ramsdale and Paul Davis speak at the Labour & Liverpool event
Graeme Gibbs
Public sector worker (29)
“There is an assumption that anyone who joins the Labour party as a young person is automatically a Corbyn supporter. I am not a Corbyn supporter but I am a Labour supporter. And that needs to be challenged in the media.”
Jeremy
Liverpool Riverside constituency Labour party, in the party for 40 years
“I have been shocked and scandalised by the way new members are treated by the party. They are not welcomed and my experience of being at every constituency meeting of Riverside CLP is that the meetings have been very carefully controlled, very carefully organised so there is no possibility at all of people who might have a different opinion coming in. And in my experience the reality is that the real levels of abuse are coming from that group of scared councillors and politicians, many of whom I count as friends.”
