Summary
These were the key clashes at the leadership hustings tonight in Gateshead
Europe
Corbyn said Labour must accept the results of the EU referendum and now focus on building new relationships with sister parties and unions all across Europe.
A referendum has taken place and I think we have to recognise that, whatever we feel about it, there is a result from that referendum which we have to work with.
But Smith came out swinging for the Labour leader on his lukewarm support for the EU, saying he had described his support before the result as 7/10 for the EU, but said he was now “10 out of 10” for leaving.
We should still be fighting harder, and if I were the leader I would be saying to the country ‘let’s negotiate hard, let’s demand that our mandate, because our people voted In by and large, is properly observed, let’s argue alongside the Tories for a proper Brexit’.
Smith says he believes that shows Corbyn “never really bought into the idea of remaining in the European Union.”
“Are you becoming a mind reader?” Corbyn asks. Smith says he does not need to be a mind reader because Corbyn had opposed the EU for 30 years.
During the referendum you seemed to have undergone a Damascene conversion.
Gender equality
Labour have just selected four men as candidates for regional mayoral elections next May and both candidates were quizzed on what the party could do to ensure greater gender equality.
Particularly, both were asked if there should have been some all women shortlists for the mayoral selection processes.
Corbyn says he believes it was not the leader’s job to decide on AWS for regional mayors, which should be up to the local party.
Smith, however, said he as party leader would have insisted on at least one all women shortlist.
The party leader should have insist on one of those [mayoralties], at least, being an all woman shortlist.
Leadership
Smith’s key argument in areas where both men seemed to agree in principle was about leadership and the electibility of the party.
All of the policies we want to put in place all of the principles we hold dear are worth nought because we will not be able to translate any of that into power.
Corbyn, whose team have launched a rebuttal website this evening to challenge claims he is not successful electorally, said Smith was ignoring the huge surge in membership under his leadership.
Owen, our party is a strong party, our party is a big party, our campaigning abilities are immense if we work together on those campaign.
But Smith said the current tactics were reminiscent of the time the party was out of power for 18 years.
We’ve had mass rallies, we’ve had a big party and we’ve lost successive elections. We know how this one ends, Jeremy, and it doesn’t end well for the working people of Britain. It’s not about the t-shirts we wear and the badges on our lapels.
“I think people should wear the t-shirs they want to,” responded Corbyn, calmly.
Defence
Corbyn says we must have a foreign policy “based on human rights, international law, so we become known as a force that is determined to make sure the universal declaration is enforced in all places”.
He says he would aim to eventually lower defence spending, below the 2% of GDP that Nato asks its members to spend. Later, in a discussion about whether he would ever support military action, Corbyn said he would never rule out the possibility, but said there had to be better checks and balances.
The Chilcott report makes pretty sobering reading.. how we ended up in a war we knew was questionably legal.. We have to have a different, less aggressive foreign policy.
Smith says he would maintain 2%.
We live in a more volatile world... when I see the prospect of Donald Trump in power in America, when I see Vladimir Putin in charge in Russia, I don’t think now is a time for Britain to shirk its responsibilities.
That’s all from me tonight, thank you for reading and for your comments.
My colleague Frances Perraudin has been chatting to supporters and audience members both before and after the debate. Here’s what she’s filed.
Clutching Momentum and socialist party banners, and placards reading ‘Geordies got ya back Corbyn’, the crowd swarmed around the Labour leader as he got out of his car. Owen Smith received no such welcome.
Gavin Thompson, 29, an out-of-work civil engineer and organiser for Momentum Tyne and Wear didn’t get a ticket to the debate, but has come to show support for the Labour leader. He described the leadership election as “ugly and awful”.
“We’re going to destroy the opposition,” he said. “I’m going to a put a little bet on a 75%-80% win. It’s been a pointless race and it’s only served to damage the Labour party,” he says.
The audience of 450 in the hotel’s Gateshead suite was chosen at random from applications from local party members, with 15 delegates invited from each of the two campaign teams.
Speaking after the debate, Nick Gilks, a retired police officer, said the evening’s event hadn’t changed his mind and that he would be voting for Corbyn. “I didn’t know who he was when I first went to the hustings last year,” he said.
“I know him now and there was nothing I saw in there tonight that is going to change my mind and I’m not a trot.”
“I find the Corbyn hysteria quite irritating, regardless of what you think [of the candidates],” says one woman, who asked not to be named. “[The audience is] just not listening. I went in there with an open mind but the hysteria really was making me switch off.”
Corbyn’s team have sent a friendly tweet to Owen Smith, despite that bitterness in the last few minutes where Smith made it clear he would not serve in the shadow cabinet.
Great to have a policy focussed debate, thanks to @OwenSmith_MP, @UKLabour staff and all watching in Gateshead and online #LabourHustings
— Jeremy Corbyn MP (@jeremycorbyn) August 11, 2016
A Smith campaign source texts to say they believe the contrast between the two candidates showed up tonight. “Owen was crystal clear on what he’d invest in the NHS and where the money would come from,” he said. “Stark contrast with Jeremy.”
Smith camp says their man “demonstrated that he will be a radical and credible leader, ready to take the fight to the Tories, he set out detailed policies, not slogans, that will appeal to people and transform our country.
“And he was realistic about the Labour Party’s abysmal polling position - while Jeremy Corbyn repeated myths that we are doing well, making claims about polling that have no basis in reality.”
However, the Corbyn camp are extremely confident they won that hustings, and last week’s too. “The look on Owen Smith and his team’s faces at the end said it all - 2 nil to Jeremy,” one campaign source said.
“All they have is Project Fear and Project Smear and when they don’t work they just talk down the party. It’s a toxic strategy when you’re up against Project Hope.”
The Corbyn ally said it was a “massive blunder” for Smith to admit he would not serve in a Corbyn shadow cabinet. “How can you stand in an election and refuse to accept the outcome? He is basically now trying to hold the members to ransom.”
Updated
We’re finished now in Gateshead, here’s some of the analysis from the Twitter political commentariat.
From the Mirror’s Ben Glaze
Have to wonder at the value of #LabourLeadership hustings. I suspect they reinforce what people already think rather than change any minds.
— Ben Glaze (@benglaze) August 11, 2016
Certainly the audience in the room seems overwhelmingly to have come to support their man rather than learn anything #LabourLeadership
— Ben Glaze (@benglaze) August 11, 2016
From the BBC’s Richard Moss
.@jeremycorbyn clearly has more support in the room as Gateshead hustings wraps up with prolonged standing ovation.l for him.
— Richard Moss (@BBCRichardMoss) August 11, 2016
From the Huffington Post’s Paul Waugh
The boo-ing this year really is a new phenomenon. I chaired one of the Lab leadership (+deputy) hustings last yr + not a single boo.
— Paul Waugh (@paulwaugh) August 11, 2016
From the Telegraph’s Ben Riley-Smith
Labour's crisis in a nutshell. Owen Smith says "power" not badges is what's needed to enact change. Audience boos.
— Ben Riley-Smith (@benrileysmith) August 11, 2016
Updated
Corbyn gives his closing summary
He says the Labour party has had many victories under his leadership, citing councils and mayoral elections across Britain.
We have to build and transform our society and give people the confidence things can be done differently in Britain.
There must be a new housing policy, re-nationalisation of the railways and a “national minimum wage that means something, £10 that the TUC recommends.
The applause is much louder for Corbyn, huge cheers and whoops from the crowd.
Updated
Smith gives his closing summary
Smith says he grew up in Wales, under a Tory government which wanted to break trade unions, underfund the NHS and he says the same is happening now.
They are still intending to privatise the NHS. They are still stripping away wages and workers rights of ordinary people. Those people can’t wait 18 years, they can’t wait 18 minutes for another Labour government.
I am very clear I want to lead a Labour government, introduce fair taxation, deliver a revolution in workers rights and proper fair funding for every corner of Britain. Getting us off our knees and turning us once more into the engine room for the global economy. But we can only do that if we are in power.
I will restore us to a credible and radical socialist Labour government in waiting. If you put your faith in me, I will not let you down.
Updated
Smith says his first act of leadership would be “to do something that Jeremy can’t do, bring together a full shadow cabinet of talents from across the party.... Jeremy can’t do that and that’s why we need to change the leader of the Labour party.”
He is being roundly booed for that analysis by members of the audience. Ridge asks both if they would serve in each others’ shadow cabinets.
“I think it’s highly unlikely Owen would offer me anything,” Corbyn says.
I would offer, as I did last September, positions that ensure the political spectrum is represented.
Smith says he has been “absolutely clear he would offer you a job in a shadow cabinet” but said he would not return to Corbyn’s front bench.
I have lost confidence in you, but I would serve Labour on the backbenches because I am Labour to my bones and I will always be Labour.
I would not, as Jeremy has done, vote against my party 500 times. I will do what I have always done is vote Labour.
Corbyn says that is disappointing. He said he would have thought Smith would want to continue the work he did in work and pensions. “I don’t want it to be futile work,” he says.
Do you think the UK should maintain its 2% of GDP in defence spending?
Corbyn says he would like to live in a world where we spend “a lot less... I recognise there has to be a level of spending but I would hope in the long term to reduce it.”
Smith says he would maintain 2%, which is a Nato target.
We live in a more volatile world... when I see the prospect of Donald Trump in power in America, when I see Vladimir Putin in charge in Russia, I don’t think now is a time for Britain to shirk its responsibilities.
Updated
Can war ever be justified?
Smith says yes it can. He recalls as a child meeting miners’ leader Will Painter, who fought in the Spanish civil war against fascism. An audience member laughs, which Smith says is “disrespectful”.
He says he agrees with Corbyn there should be a war powers act to ensure parliament will always have a vote on matters of future wars. But he says there have been times that the UK should have intervened, citing Rwanda.
Corbyn says he can never say never, because there have been wars of liberation which should be fought. But he says there has to be a holistic approach to war and peace, mentioning arms sales to Saudi Arabia while the nation fights a war in Yemen.
The Chilcott report makes pretty sobering reading.. how we ended up in a war we knew was questionably legal.. We have to have a different, less aggressive foreign policy.
Updated
Smith is getting frustrated with Corbyn in these final minutes, as Corbyn says the party “has to put forward economic policies that bring about justice, that we agree on.”
Smith says there has to be “more than rhetoric, Jeremy...”
We will not bring back the confidence of the British people unless we have a concrete programme. The rhetoric will appeal to our base but it won’t win us back Nuneaton, Cardiff North...
Corbyn says that the party should “get out there and involve people in developing an economic strategy. “It’s all there.” Smith says it isn’t.
We will not be able to transform the life chances of a single child in this country if we are not in power.
Updated
Ridge asks if they accept the premise of the question, whether they think that people distrusted Labour on the economy.
People were confused about Labour’s stance on the economy, Corbyn says.
If we are saying we are intending to have good quality public-funded services, PFI cannot rip off our health and education service, we are going to promote industry, I think that’s a very strong message.
Smith says it was a lie that the former Labour government caused the economic crash. “We should have been stronger challenging that, much much stronger.”
Updated
What actions will you take to restore Labour's economic credibilities?
Corbyn begins with tax avoidance and tax evasion. He says that a Labour party must show it will chase down tax avoidance, learn the lessons from the Panama Papers leak, and fund proper public services.
Smith says he wants to reintroduce the 50p tax rate, he would block cuts to inheritance and capital gains tax.
He repeats his previous pledge for a wealth tax, he says it would be a surcharge on unearned income of people earning, which will fund the NHS.
Lighting update! The dimness is gone and the full lights are back.
Lights fully back on so #LabourLeadership candidates are no longer having their identities protected at hustings. pic.twitter.com/0yMwzioqR9
— Richard Moss (@BBCRichardMoss) August 11, 2016
How will each candidate make the world tomorrow better than yesterday?
A question from a young person...
Smith says the first thing to tackle is the Tories’ idea of a living wage. He says he would introduce a “proper” living wage of £8.25 an hour, rising to more than £10 over a five year period, and make sure that it applied to under 25s as well.
Corbyn says it is not true that the world is a worse place than decades ago, but that redistribution of wealth is the problem.
The world is an infinitely richer place. Technology has moved us on immeasurably, what hasn’t moved on is the policy of redistribution.
I want to see an economic strategy that redistributes wealth... it’s a question of making sure the next generation is better off, not worse off.
Updated
Corbyn is being asked about free schools and academies. He says he would not close them, but bring them back into local authority control.
Smith says too that no schools should be closed down but said the government had sought to “subvert” Labour’s academy programme, because the Conservatives “don’t believe in comprehensives.”
Smith - Mayoral elections should have had at least one all women shortlist
Both are asked if they would support an all-woman shortlist in the regional mayoral selection process.
Corbyn says potentially, but says that was for the local parties to decide.
Smith says he disagrees. “The party leader should have insist on one of those [mayoralties], at least, being an all woman shortlist.”
We do need to have that positive discrimination or we don’t get women elected, he says.
Updated
How will you ensure a more gender equal Labour party?
Corbyn says he believes female candidates should be “selected where we can” but he said there should be broader policies in the party for greater gender equality across society, citing Stem careers for more girls.
Smith says the Labour party “has not been good enough” but says it should be proud of its record in recruiting female MPs and balanced cabinets.
Truthfully we have to do a lot more. The culture of our party has not been encouraging enough, it is tough to be a woman in politics and we have to encourage and nurture more.
Updated
What is your plan to win back voters from Ukip especially those whose primary concerns are about immigration?
Smith says the problem is in communities where there has been “long-term, systemic underinvestment”.
He says the secret is a socialist programme that invests in those communities, in school places, healthcare and then underlying concerns about immigration would be eroded.
Corbyn says the undercutting of wages by the exploitation of migrant workers has to be dealt with. He says a migrant impact fund should be reintroduced, which could be partly funded by the EU until we leave. But Labour also has to take on Ukip, he says.
In reality, the blame culture from Ukip cannot deliver one house, one nurse, one doctor, one school or anything else.
Updated
Corbyn says the Labour party lost the last election despite pledges to continue austerity and the public sector pay freeze.
We have forced a lot of U-turns. We could be forcing a lot more and I hope we will do when the leadership election is over.
Updated
Bitter clashes between Corbyn and Smith over the polls and electability. Corbyn says Labour was ahead in the polls before the resignations of shadow cabinet members, that it has won every byelection and has increased majorities.
Smith says that isn’t true.
We have to be honest with ourselves, comrades, we lost 18 seats in the council election, Cameron made 300 gains.
We are at 26% in the polls, the lowest since 1982 when I was 12 years old. That’s the reality in this country. Only a third of Labour voters think you would make a better PM than Theresa May. That’s the reality.
Corbyn says that the Labour party and Labour movement will put together a manifesto that will show it can deliver for all of those people and all communities.
Smith says he resigned “because you cannot lead us back to power, you could not fulfil the basic task ... of working with your colleagues. You undermined colleagues at every turn.”
He says as shadow work and pensions secretary he had one meeting with Corbyn in nine months, despite the fight on PIP and tax credits and the eventual Tory U-turns.
Updated
What music do you listen to on your iPod?
This is quite a change of tone! Corbyn says he was writing to Beethoven’s 5th last night.
He goes on, enthusiastically:
What we have to ensure all our events as a party are accompanied by music, by dance, by art and by culture. And have a society accompanied by dance, music, art and culture.
Smith says he keeps getting accused of being a Blairite, so he won’t say: “Things can only get better.” But he says his favourite band at the moment is the Vaccines, and he thinks his theme tune should be their song I’m No Teenage Icon.
It’d be ironic obviously, Jeremy.
Owen Smith says he wants to encourage more idealism. “Some of those young people who have been enthused are going to be let down, because unless we can translate that into power, we won’t be able to get that world they want.”
This is an open goal for Corbyn.
Owen, we’ve recruited 300,000 people to the party ...
Updated
What policies and proposals will you put in place to address Britain's obligations on climate change while addressing the current crisis in energy supply?
The irony of this question while the hustings is still dimly lit has not been lost on the crowd.
Smith says that he would consider a national renewables company, harnessing wind and wave power. “That’s the kind of big idea we need for the big challenges we face.”
Corbyn says we have to “encourage everyone to think about innovation”. He cites houses in his constituency that are heated by excess energy from the London underground.
“We also have to recognise the need for an environmental approach which is also about sustaining our biodiversity and ecosystem,” he says.
It is still quite dark...
They look like they're going to get their trumpets out for a trad jazz duet at Ronnie Scott's. #LabourHustings pic.twitter.com/dcr2zE2Jis
— Paul Waugh (@paulwaugh) August 11, 2016
Updated
Power cut in the building
The hustings is plunged into darkness. Sophy Ridge quips: “Maybe it is time to talk about the energy supply?”
Members of the audience are taking out there phones to use as torches ...
#Labourdebate plunges into darkness. `I'm the tall one' says @OwenSmith_MP. `Let ther be light says @jeremycorbyn. And still there was none.
— Alex Morales (@AlexJFMorales) August 11, 2016
Power cut at the Corbyn-Smith hustings - pitch black, now emergency mood lighting. Current question - energy policy. #LabourLeadership
— Alastair Sloan (@alastairsloan) August 11, 2016
Updated
Both are asked about Trident. Both have made their views on this well known before: Corbyn says he is opposed to the renewal because they are “weapons of mass destruction” and the renewal has handed the government a blank cheque; Smith says he wants to see a nuclear free world, but he says he does not believe in unilateral disarmament.
“My history tells me that isn’t going to work, that unfortunately we will need to retain them.” He says he will vote to renew “with a heavy heart”.
Updated
What would you do to keep Britain safe?
Corbyn says we must have a foreign policy “based on human rights, international law, so we become known as a force that is determined to make sure the universal declaration is enforced in all places”.
He gets a huge cheer when he says he opposed the Iraq War, saying foreign policy has consequences.
Smith says police investment is important, and commits to the 2% of GDP on defence spending that is recommended by Nato. But he says more investment also needs to go into community relations.
Updated
What is your strategy for working with businesses to create jobs and growth?
Smith is up first again. He says that partnership is the key, a government with a real industrial strategy “that looks to the future, looks where the jobs of the future are and invests”. He points to Tesla in the US, investing with the US government to create electric engines. “Why not in Britain, why not in Gateshead?”
Corbyn agrees investment in manufacturing and technology is key. “I would start with really good quality apprenticeships … There has to be an investment process by government like in Germany in manufacturing.” He says it is important that the UK has become a service economy reliant on financial services.
Updated
Corbyn says the Tories will now push for a new TTIP-style arrangement with the US and Europe. “Surely we have to stand up for what we believe in and what we want, which is not the enfranchisement of global corporations?”
Huge cheers for this in the room.
Updated
Smith says he fundamentally believes the UK should still be in Europe, and if what is on the table at the end of the negotiations is a worse deal than we have now, “we should say no.”
Corbyn said the strategy should now be to build relationships with sister parties and unions across Europe, and not just those in the European Union.
Smith says he believes that shows Corbyn “never really bought into the idea of remaining in the European Union … You never really liked the idea of the European Union.”
“Are you becoming a mind reader?” Corbyn asks. Smith says he does not need to be a mind reader because Corbyn had opposed the EU for 30 years.
During the referendum you seemed to have undergone a Damascene conversion
Updated
There’s a pretty balanced number of boos and applause for Smith’s long speech on Europe.
Corbyn is asked to respond to some of the claims. He says there’s “one or two points that need to be made.” His own constituency voted remain by over 70%, he says. (It is Islington.)
He says you cannot ignore some of the issues with the European Union, “that there should be a social Europe rather than a market Europe”.
He says he has met with socialist parties in Europe, set up a Brexit monitoring group but said the decision of the referendum was that we have to leave. You cannot ignore that, he says, and article 50 will be invoked.
Updated
How did you feel on 24 June (after the Brexit vote)?
Corbyn said he felt shocked and saddened but said it had to be accepted that the country had voted out. He says he did not want the UK to be a “bargain basement’ island with low taxes and low workers rights.
Smith says he felt angry and saddened more so than after losing the general election. He says the Labour party did not speak up enough during the crucial period.
We are an internationalist party which believes in peace, co-operation, collaboration between peoples.
Ridge presses him on that, Smith said he believes that Corbyn did not fight hard enough personally.
I thought we could have made a much bigger argument ... Jeremy himself admitted he was 7/10 in his faith in the European Union. Jeremy has been 10/10 when it comes to leaving Europe.
He said last week he didn’t say it but we all know he did. Saying trigger article 50 is like giving David Davis and Liam Fox a blank cheque.
Updated
What would be your flagship policy in an election?
Smith is first up:
My flagship policy would be reinvestment in this country, I think we have for many years now seen many areas fall behind.
I would invest in a British New Deal … a Keynesian investment programme for the healthcare, homes, schools and jobs.
Corbyn says his is to “recognise the National Health Service is the most precious thing we’ve got ... ensure it returns fully to publicly ownership.”
He also says safe homes for children to grow up with, pre-school investment and an national investment bank with up to £500bn.
Ridge asks which is the flagship policy.
Most important to me is that everyone has good health and security, health and housing.
Updated
And we’re off! Huge cheers as the candidates come on. As the applause dies down, one man shouts “Owen!” and there’s a ripple of laughter.
Sky News’ Sophy Ridge says the candidates drew lots backstage to decide who will answer the questions first. Ridge says she has tried to take questions on a variety of different topics, and questions from different parts of the UK.
The candidates have 40 seconds to answer each question, but will be allowed to expand if the debate needs more detail.
Ridge says heckling, shouting out, even if you passionately disagree, is disrespectful, and says both candidates agree.
Lots of noise as the Labour leadership hustings starts in Gateshead. 'Howay!' shouts one audience member
— Paul Waugh (@paulwaugh) August 11, 2016
Updated
We’re a few minutes late starting in Gateshead, but the live stream will start here once we’ve kicked off.
If Labour leadership hustings are your thing, you can submit a question for the upcoming debates here - with the dates listed below.
Birmingham: Thursday 18 August
Glasgow: Thursday 25 August
London: Thursday 1 September
Updated
Members and supportive MPs are arriving at the hustings at the Hilton hotel now. The irony of the location has not been lost on some of those attending.
Labour, 'party of the workers', hold their North East leadership hustings at.....The Hilton.... pic.twitter.com/dZqLib7XLm
— Sam Launder (@SamuelLaunder) August 11, 2016
Having @owensmith2016 day - from brill meeting with members & supporters in Durham to Gateshead hustings #Owen2016 pic.twitter.com/hsm63VTEze
— R. Blackman-Woods (@robertabwMP) August 11, 2016
Tonight’s @UKLabour hustings will be in Gateshead. You can watch it live at 7pm by following this link: https://t.co/eGoFeDVrLj
— Sharon Hodgson MP (@SharonHodgsonMP) August 11, 2016
Corbyn supporters are amassing outside to support their candidate, the BBC’s Richard Moss reports.
The @jeremycorbyn massive waits for their man outside Gateshead hotel hosting Labour hustings with @OwenSmith_MP pic.twitter.com/hq1Wsh255a
— Richard Moss (@BBCRichardMoss) August 11, 2016
Labour rivals face off in second leadership debate
Good evening, we’re live for the second round of hustings between Jeremy Corbyn and Owen Smith for the Labour leadership.
This time we’re in Gateshead for the debate moderated by Sky News’ Sophy Ridge, in front of an audience of several hundred people.
There are several more hustings to come before voting opens in late August, with the result set to be announced at a special conference in Liverpool on Saturday 24 September.
That could change, however, and much will hinge on the decision tomorrow by the court of appeal on the case brought by five new Labour members against the party after they were denied a vote in the leadership election because of a six-month freeze imposed by the party’s national executive committee.
High court judge Mr Justice Hickinbottom declared last Monday that refusing them the right to vote would amount to a breach of contract but the party has appealed.
Kate Green, the chair of Smith’s leadership campaign, has written to the general secretary of the Labour party, Iain McNicol, calling for a two-week extension to the leadership contest following last week’s high court ruling.
My letter to @UKLabour Gen Sec urging proper time for leadership candidates to engage with Labour movement pic.twitter.com/VEPyVGXepL
— Kate Green (@KateGreenSU) August 10, 2016
She warned that “giving some members as little as a week between confirming their vote and ballot papers landing is not sufficient time for them to gather the information they will wish to have about the candidates before they cast their vote”.
I’ll be monitoring comments below as far as I can, but you can also tweet me - @jessicaelgot
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