Coverage continues in Friday’s live blog:
Summary
That concludes the final public impeachment hearing that House democrats had scheduled.
Here’s a recap of today:
- Former National Security Council official Fiona Hill and Kyiv-based State Department official David Holmes testified. Read the key takeaways here.
- Hill testified that the Republicans’ “fictional narrative” that Ukraine interfered in the 2016 presidential election plays into Vladimir Putin’s hands.
- Both Hill and Homes testified in detail about a concerted effort by the president and his allies to pressure Ukraine to investigate Trump’s political rivals.
- The White House signaled it wants a trial in the Republican-controlled Senate, where Trump may get more favorable treatment than he has in Congress, according to reports
- Senator Lindsay Graham requested documents regarding the Bidens and Ukraine, signaling that he’s ready to investigate the unsubstantiated allegations.
- Meanwhile, Trump signed a stopgap budget bill, averting a government shutdown.
Fiona Hill gains a fan club
The Guardian’s Julian Borger reports that Twitter has “fallen into a collective swoon.”
She was deemed a “national treasure” by Politico’s congressional bureau chief, John Bresnahan. Nicolle Wallace, who worked in George W Bush’s White House declared: “I spent much of my career in politics. I’ve never seen anyone like Fiona Hill.”
George Conway – lawyer, leading Trump critic and husband of one of the president’s top advisers – declared he was starting a Fiona Hill fan club.
Investigation into origins of the Russian probe will be released next month
The justice department inspector general said he plans to release the findings on the origins of the Russia investigation and whether the FBI abused its surveillance powers on 9 December.
The report will close a two-year inquiry into how the investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election, and whether the Trump campaign colluded, began.
Michael Horowitz, the inspector general, also looked into how investigators obtained a warrant to wiretap the Trump campaign adviser Carter Page, and their reliance on the notorious Steele dossier.
Updated
Lindsey Graham indicated earlier he wouldn’t be investigating claims against the Bidens. Now, he appears to be reversing course.
Three weeks ago @LindseyGrahamSC told me that under no circumstances would he “turn the Senate into a circus”, opposing Biden investigations. He would keep Judiciary focused on IG report on DoJ.
— Paul Kane (@pkcapitol) November 21, 2019
Today he started a Biden probe: pic.twitter.com/54Cfz86hea
Also, meanwhile... Trump signs short-term spending bill, averting government shutdown
The legislation, which the Senate passed earlier today and the House voted on earlier this week amid impeachment hearings, keeps the government funded until 20 December.
Without the legislation, funding would have run out at midnight.
This is the second stopgap funding bill the government has passed. It essentially keeps the lights on while Republicans and Democrats continue to clash over funding for Trump’s border wall.
Updated
Meanwhile, the 2020 Democratic primary race is continuing apace
The gym at the HBCU Clark Atlanta University is filling up with about half an hour left until Elizabeth Warren is scheduled to take the stage. pic.twitter.com/TfXvjes1yK
— Joanie Greve (@joanegreve) November 21, 2019
Elizabeth Warren will be speaking at the historically black Clark Atlanta University.
Earlier Bernie Sanders was at another HBCU – Morehouse.
We will cancel student debt. We will make public colleges and universities tuition-free. We will make historic investments to strengthen and support HBCUs and MSIs. Join us live at Morehouse College: https://t.co/UZzKOI44oN
— Bernie Sanders (@BernieSanders) November 21, 2019
Several candidates – Amy Klobuchar, Cory Booker, Pete Buttigieg, Andrew Yang and Tom Steyer – attended a ministers’ breakfast meeting sponsored by the Rev Al Sharpton’s National Action Network.
Klobuchar, Buttigieg and Booker also posed for a selfie together at Stacy Abrams’ Fair Fight Action group, where they helped reach out to some of the 313,000 registered Georgia voters may have been dropped from voter rolls ahead of the 2020 election.
And Joe Biden held a round-table discussion with a group of black mayors.
Updated
Lindsey Graham requests state department documents on the Bidens and Ukraine
The Republican senator from South Carolina sent a letter to Mike Pompeo, the secretary of state, requesting documents “to assist in answering questions regarding allegations that Vice-President Biden played a role in the termination of Prosecutor General Shokin in an effort to end the investigation of the company employing his son”.
Graham has previously said that the Senate judiciary committee wouldn’t investigate Trump’s discredited allegations that as vice-president, Joe Biden had Ukraine’s top prosecutor Victor Shokin removed for investigating a company connected to Biden’s son Hunter.
This letter indicates he may be reversing course.
Even as House Democrats leading the impeachment inquiry lock in their case against Trump, it seems Graham is seeking to legitimize the accusations that motivated Trump to pressure Ukrainian officials to investigate his political rivals.
Updated
White House: the Democrats are ‘motivated by a sick hatred’ for Trump
Trump’s press secretary Stephanie Grisham said in a statement: “These two witnesses, just like the rest, have no personal or direct knowledge regarding why US aid was temporarily withheld.”
She accused House Democrats leading the impeachment inquiry of “being motivated by a sick hatred for President Trump and their rabid desire to overturn the 2016 election”. And echoing the House intelligence chair, Adam Schiff, Grisham said: “The American people deserve better.”
Schiff closed the last day of scheduled public impeachment hearings by saying, “There is nothing more dangerous than an unethical president who believes they are above the law,” Schiff says. “We are better than that.”
Updated
Report: Republicans and White House discuss limiting impeachment trial to two weeks
A group of Republican senators met with White House officials to discuss strategies for an impeachment trial, the Washington Post reports.
If the House decides to impeach Trump, he will be tried in the Republican-controlled Senate. A group of Republican senators met with the White House counsel Pat Cipollone, the acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, as well as the president’s son-in-law and adviser, Jared Kushner, and the counsellor Kellyanne Conway, to discuss strategy, the Post reports, citing officials familiar with the meeting.
No final decisions were made on strategy for a trial that, if it happens, would come in January at the earliest. But one prominent scenario discussed, according to officials, was a trial that would last for roughly two weeks, which several Senate Republicans view as the ideal option because they believe it would be long enough to have credence without dragging on too long.
The scenario assumes the proceedings would end in acquittal in the GOP-controlled Senate.
Updated
Hearing ends with Schiff: 'we are better than that'
Schiff has closed with a strong rebuttal of each Republican line of defense and ends with a declaration.
“In my mind, there is nothing more dangerous than an unethical president who believes they are above the law,” Schiff says. “We are better than that. Adjourned.”
Gavel. Applause in the hall, as in past days.
Updated
Nunes has delivered his closing statement, calling the hearings a “show trial” and quoting Madison on the tyranny of the majority.
Schiff is delivering his closing statement.
Summary
The fifth – and final? – day of public impeachment hearings is drawing to a close. Here are five key takeaways:
1 Ukraine scheme ‘very clear’
In perhaps the most meticulous testimony yet, Fiona Hill, a former National Security Council official, testified it was “very clear” that US officials had made a White House meeting for the Ukrainian president contingent on an announcement of investigations into Joe Biden and 2016 election interference.
“It became very clear the White House meeting itself was being predicated on other issues, namely investigations and the questions about the election interference in 2016,” she said.
2 A ‘domestic political errand’ in Ukraine
Hill said she clashed with Gordon Sondland, the ambassador to the European Union, who was one of the officials working to consummate the scheme. Sondland “was being involved in a domestic political errand, and we were involved in national security policy, and the two had diverged,” she said.
“I did say to him, ‘Ambassador Sondland, Gordon, this is going to blow up’. And here we are.”
3 ‘It was obvious what the president was pressing for’
David Holmes, a state department aide in Kiev, described a cell phone conversation at a restaurant in which he overheard Trump ask Sondland about “investigations” and heard Sondland tell Trump the Ukrainians had agreed to them.
Everyone in the embassy in Kiev came to understand that Rudy Giuliani and Trump were pressing Ukraine to announce an investigation related to Joe Biden, Holmes said: “It was obvious what the president was pressing for.”
4 Hill warns Republicans not to spread Russian propaganda
Hill warned Republicans to stop peddling Russian propaganda in the form of conspiracy theories that Ukraine tampered in the 2016 presidential election. “I would ask that you please not promote politically driven falsehoods that so clearly advance Russian interests,” she said.
Nevertheless the top Republican on the committee, Devin Nunes, and others pursued lines of questioning to advance various strands of the theory.
5 What comes next
After five days and 12 public witnesses, the public phase of impeachment hearings appeared to draw to a close. In concluding remarks, Nunes called the hearings “a show trial.”
But House intelligence committee chairman Adam Schiff said that the mountain of witness testimony added up to a compelling and urgent case that “Trump put his personal and political interest above the United States”. The committee was expected to begin work immediately on a report to be submitted to the judiciary committee, which could then draft and vote on articles of impeachment.
Updated
Hill tells Democrat Sean Maloney that she does not buy Sondland’s claim that he, Sondland, did not understand for much of the summer that “Burisma” meant “Biden”.
“It is not credible to me that he was oblivious,” Hill said. “He did not say Bidens however, he said Burisma.”
White House wants a Senate trial in case of impeachment – report
The White House and Senate Republicans have met and agreed that a trial in the Senate would be better than an abrupt dismissal in case of impeachment, Politico scoops:
A group of Republican senators met Thursday morning with White House counsel Pat Cipollone, counselor to the president Kellyanne Conway and Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner to discuss impeachment strategy.
Two attendees said that the White House wants the Senate to hold a trial of some length and not immediately dismiss any articles of impeachment with the GOP’s majority, as some Republicans have suggested. The White House and Trump’s GOP allies decided instead “they want some kind of factual affirmative defense on the merits,” said one attendee.
A “factual affirmative defense on the merits” – what would that look like? The Republicans have so far failed to summon any such thing
Republican Will Hurd – who is retiring – starts out saying something that does not hew to the Republican line, that the impeachment hearings have revealed conduct that “undermined our national security and undercut Ukraine.”
“I disagree with this sort of bungling foreign policy,” Hurd says.
But the he gets directly in Nunes’ draft: “There’s a lot we do not know. We have not heard from Rudy Giuliani, Hunter Biden or the whistleblower,” Hurd says.
He says impeachment requires overwhelming evidence – suggesting he does not believe the last two weeks amount to that – and “I have not heard evidence proving that the president committed bribery or extortion.”
Republican Elise Stefanik is up. She mentions that she plans to ask a question of the witnesses. But she spends a minute attacking the process of impeachment.
“Thank you Dr Hill for your comments on the personal attacks,” Stefanik says. Then she asks a question of Hill. Were you on the 25 July call? It’s been established that Hill was not.
Stefanik turns to Holmes. “Good to see you again” – as Holmes noted, he had helped host Stefanik and a delegation in Ukraine.
Then Stefanik goes back to Hill. There is a string of yes-no questions. Didn’t Ukraine receive the aid? Isn’t it true there was no investigation of the Bidens? Didn’t Trump and Zelenskiy meet at the UN?
Holmes pushes back a bit, pointing out that Trump and Zelenskiy never met in the Oval Office.
But didn’t they meet at the UN? Stefanik presses.
Affirmative.
A third consecutive Republican, Chris Stewart, makes a speech without asking a question. They’ve seemingly decided that the best strategy from here is to minimize the witnesses’ speaking time.
Good anecdote from Hill, in reply to a question from Democrat Jackie Speier:
Fiona Hill verifies the story about a classmate lighting her pigtail on fire during a test. She snuffed it out and finished the test.
— Lauren Gambino (@laurenegambino) November 21, 2019
Hill says she tells that story because it had very unfortunate consequences. Her mom gave her a bowl cut. "I looked like Richard the Third"
One Republican committee member after another has dodged asking Fiona Hill a question, making statements instead. Until Hill asks if she can respond and address the rhetoric on Russia and Ukraine
— Julian Borger (@julianborger) November 21, 2019
Updated
After Republican Wenstrup delivers a speech, following Turner’s speech, with no question and allowing no time for Hill to talk.
Hill notes that a couple Republicans, Mike Turner and John Ratcliffe, have left the hearing.
She says she has not incorrectly characterized the view of the committee on Russian election tampering. And she says “we have to find away... to stop [Russia] from doing what they did again in 2020.”
Hill pushes back against the Republican charge of hearsay. “We’re here to relate to you what we heard, what we saw, and what we did.”
She says a very momentous decision is at hand. In impeachment, but also in 2020, when she hopes voters can participate in an election “without any fear that this is being interfered in any quarter whatsoever.”
Hill is talking about ambassador Yovanovitch.
“Frankly she’s an easy target because she’s a woman,” Hill said. “And I’m very sorry to hear about what’s happened to Representative Stefanik.”
Turner, the Republican, had just mentioned attacks on Republican Elise Stefanik of New York, following her day-one stunt in the hearings that made it look like Schiff was inappropriately silencing her. Video clips of the moment led Fox News and circulated on conservative media as part of an attack on Schiff and the impeachment process.
Republican Mike Turner is up. He says he has evidence of the problem of hearsay. He yells at Hill for a few minutes and now he’s yelling at Holmes. He runs his time out with no question.
Republican John Ratcliffe asks Holmes about the 26 July Trump-Sondland phone call. Ratcliffe is after a – subtle? – point. The point is, if Trump found out on the phone that his supposed extortion plot with Ukraine was working, why then did he immediately bring up the rapper A$AP Rocky? Wouldn’t a successful bribe-r – this seems to be Ratcliffe’s arguement – wouldn’t someone who had just received news that his bribery and extortion plot in Ukraine had just come together have talked more about it or savored it?
Holmes said the Ukraine part of the conversation was very brief.
Ratcliffe asks Holmes what he heard Trump say about A$AP Rocky. Holmes did not hear that part. Ratcliffe wonders why Holmes just heard the Ukraine part and not the rest. Holmes says Sondland stopped moving the phone away from his ear.
Under questioning from Democrat Jim Himes, Hill is explaining why the points of “evidence” brandished by Nunes that Ukraine was tampering in the 2016 campaign against Trump are .. not evidence of that.
Hill said a lot of foreign leaders talked trash about Trump before the election, but that did not make Trump turn against those countries the way he reportedly loathes and resents Ukraine, she says. So why did he turn so decisively against Ukraine?
Holmes: 'It was obvious what the president was pressing for'
Now the Republicans. Nunes hands to Jim Jordan who asks Holmes why Taylor did not at first mention to investigators that Holmes told him about the 26th July lunch with Sondland.
Holmes says he did not tell Taylor right away because Taylor was on the front lines. Then Holmes went on vacation for a week, when he came back he referred to the call in a meeting with Taylor and Taylor nodded, Holmes said. Holmes thought Taylor had been briefed on the call.
“My main takeaway was, the president does not care about Ukraine... that was the takeaway” and what he talked about with people on the subject of the call, Holmes said.
Jordan mocks Taylor and Holmes for Holmes’ relatively late entry in the process.
Holmes said his account of the call with Trump might not have stuck out for Taylor because it was part of an overwhelming number of indicators amounting to common knowledge that the president was pressing for investigations of Biden and did not care about other stuff.
Holmes is barely allowed to testify, Jordan interrupts him repeatedly despite Schiff’s gavel.
“I believe that ambassador Taylor did already know... it was not news to him that the president was asking for a Biden investigation... it’s exactly my point. I briefed the call in detail... I refer to the call and everyone is nodding... of course that’s what’s going on... everyone by that point agreed. It was obvious what the president was pressing for.”
Jordan repeatedly interrupts Holmes.
Hill now describes the 10 July White House meeting in which Sondland described the deal with Mulvaney of a meeting for investigations.
“There was no yelling or shouting,” Hill says. “That’s some embellishment... Sondland was in an exchange with Vindman... ‘we have an agreement to have a meeting’.”
They went downstairs to the Ward room though Perry had left, Hill says.
“When I came in, Gordon Sondland was basically saying look, I have a deal with chief of staff Mulvaney that we have a meeting if the Ukrainians announce investigations of Burisma...
“I cut it off right there... it was clear then that Burisma was code for the Bidens...
“So I cut off this line and I said to Ambassador Sondland look... we have to properly prepare this... and we really shouldn’t be talking about this in front of our colleagues from Ukraine...
“We asked our colleagues to wait outside of the door in the corridor..;
“I pushed back on ambassador Sondland... look I know there’s differences about when we should have this meeting...
“Ambassador Sondland then said OK, fair enough. Ambassador Volker didn’t say anything at this particular juncture.”
Hill then spoke with Bolton who told her to talk to Eisenberg.
Hill: immigration 'really does make America great'
Schiff is back.
He asks Hill about the dual loyalty charge leveled on Tuesday against Vindman.
“I think it’s very unfortunate. This is a country of immigrants... with the exception of very few...
This is what for me really does make America great... everyone has some kind of appellate to them... I do not believe that my loyalty is to the UK, I believe that my loyalty is here... my colleagues... think it’s exactly the same. I think it’s deeply unfair.
Hill is asked about Tim Morrison, her successor, saying that Hill had questioned Lt Col Alexander Vindman’s judgment.
In her opinion, Vindman did not have the political antennae to deal effectively with the informal policy channel emerging on Ukraine, she said.
“That does not mean in any way that I was questioning his overall judgment or his expertise. He is excellent... this is a very different issue.
“Col Vindman was justifiably alarmed when he realized that there was this highly political aspect of the meeting that we were engaged in.”
Hill: Sondland 'was being involved in a domestic political errand'
Hill says that Sondland “was being involved in a domestic political errand, and we were involved in foreign policy, and the two had diverged.”
“I did say to him, Ambassador Sondland, Gordon, this is going to blow up and here we are.”
Hill continues:
“Ambassador Sondland is not wrong that he had been given a different remit than we had been... I wasn’t really being fair to ambassador Sondland, because he was carrying out” what he had been directed to.
Nunes flies to Trump’s defense. He says Trump was concerned about 2016 and Burisma, throws in the Steele dossier and “if that was the concern of the president... and it’s the concern of ambassador Sondland to ensure that meetings occurred...I’m a little, I mean”– Nunes sputters out.
“My point Mr Nunes,” Hill says, “is that we at the NSC were not told either by the president directly or by Mr Bolton ...” that we were to be focused on these matters.
“I was not given a directive. In fact I was given a directive on July 10 very clearly by Ambassador Bolton to stay out of domestic politics.”
Hill: 'when women show anger it's not often appreciated'
Now Castor is asking Hill about Sondland’s account of a coffee he had with Hill as she was leaving.
This is an action-packed few minutes of testimony. Castor and Nunes have tried to coax something from Hill and seem to have gotten something they did not bargain for.
Did they have coffee?
“This is the federal government, we don’t have coffee machines...” Hill says. “The coffee that Ambassador Sondland and I shared..[was when] asked me to meet him for coffee in Jackson Hole Wyoming in 2018 in August..” a year before she left.
But her meeting with Sondland before she left was not that, she says. She, Sondland, Vindman and a state department official met, and there was no coffee. Sondland testified that Hill was upset.
She says she “had a couple testy encounters” with him.
Then she says it’s complicated for a woman in a professional environment to demonstrate anger.
In the exit meeting, “I was actually to be honest angry with him. I hate to say it but when women show anger it’s not often appreciated, it’s often put off to emotional issues... what I was angry about was that he wasn’t coordinating with us... he wasn’t fully telling us about all the meetings he was having...”
Nunes asks Hill if she briefed the president about concerns about Hunter Biden, Burisma and corruption.
“The whole briefing process didn’t really work in the way that you’re suggesting there...” she says. “Just to be very clear, Ukraine was not a top foreign policy concern in that period.. the briefings would take place when there was a scheduled meeting with a Ukrainian head of state, and as we know there have not been too many of those.”
And as we know there have not been too many of those – BURN.
Nunes is unspooling the debunked conspiracy theory about Joe Biden calling off an investigation of Burisma because Hunter Biden was on the company’s board. In fact the investigation had been shelved when Biden in his official role as vice president and acting in coordination with unanimous US policy made the call.
Nunes’ technique is to ask Holmes whether he knew about a bunch of events in a timeline of the theory, Holmes answers No to each. Hill didn’t know either.
Hill said she recommended that Rick Perry lead the US delegation to Zelenskiy’s inauguration. Because he had deep knowledge of the energy industry. And Perry was a good advocate of US business. And Ukraine has an “Achilles heel” as the main transit point for gas from Russia to Europe.
Castor turns to Holmes. What did he think of the US delegation to the inauguration?
He thought it was fine. High-level enough.
Now back to Nunes. “I think it’s a good time to segue to Burisma,” Nunes says.
Castor is back, asking questions of Hill.
The topic is why Pence did not attend the Zelenskiy inauguration.
Hill refers to the testimony on Tuesday of Jennifer Williams, the Pence aide.
Now we’re on to Trump’s May meeting with Hungarian leader Viktor Orban.
This is all over the place.
Nunes digs in on Ukraine election tampering conspiracy theory
Nunes: “do you know Sergey Lutschenko?” the journalist and former parliamentarian.
Holmes does.
Nunes goes off on the Lutschenko- Nellie Ohr- Fusion GPS conspiracy theory. “He was in the parliament at the time... he provided the black ledger... is that seen as credible information?”
“Yes.”
Nunes: “The black ledger is credible?”
“Yes.”
Nunes: but wait, Mueller did not! find it credible.
Holmes: “I’m not aware that Bob Mueller did not find it credible,” but it was used as evidence in other criminal proceedings.
Nunes: Didn’t Lutschenko want to hurt Trump?
Holmes said Lutschenko was motivated by his usual motivation: “To expose corruption in Ukraine.”
Nunes: Didn’t Lutschenko admit wanting to hurt Trump?”
Holmes: “He has not said that to me. If he said that to you I’ll take your word for it.”
Nunes is attacking the opponents of corruption in Ukraine while advancing the Giuliani-Lutsenko narrative.
Updated
Castor is asking Holmes to describe the effectiveness of the Javelins.
“They’re an important strategic deterrence,” he says. “A very important symbolic message to the Ukrainian military.”
Ukrainians have offered to buy more, he says.
Castor notes that the consensus of the interagency is now to supply the Javelins.
Then Nunes takes over.
Hill talks about all the state department officials she was in contact with about her concerns about the campaign against Yovanovitch.
Castor asks if she wanted the US to provide Ukraine with Javelin anti-tank missiles. She says she was not before she came into government in 2017, but after she came in “I changed my mind.”
Castor turns to Holmes.
Castor is trying to hang Sondland out to dry again, insinuating that Sondland was not so close to Trump as Trump represented.
Hill said Sondland said “That it was the president who had put him in charge of this.”
Hill said she was concerned about “the removal of our ambassador” despite the president’s “perfect right to do so.” The smear campaign “was completely unnecessary” she felt.
She had a second cause for concern: “It was very clear at this point that there was let’s just say a different channel in operation... it was domestic and political in nature... and these two things had diverged.”
Castor asks Hill about Volker.
“Ambassador Volker is an extraordinarly accomplished diplomat,” Hill says. “The truth that we’re trying to get at, I know ambassador Volker very well, on a personal level as well.”
Now to Sondland. How did Hill learn of his role?
She says they worked closely with the EU on Ukraine matters, and she was in contact with Sondland there. “It was perfectly logical that Ambassador Sondland would play some kind of role” on Ukraine.
But when Sondland presented himself as in charge, Hill was concerned because Yovanovitch had just been recalled.
“I asked him quite bluntly” in a meeting after the May inauguration about his role, she says. “He said he was in charge of Ukraine, and I said ‘who put you in charge?’ and he said ‘the president’.”
Castor asks Hill if she was on the 25 July call.
No.
Castor asks what the thinking at the NSC was about such a call. Hill says perhaps there was some awareness of an upcoming call. “There were differences let’s say” about the call.
Hill opposed such a call at the time. And “To my knowledge Bolton was not in agreement... he felt that a call had not been properly prepared.”
Hill says she was surprised when she found a call had been scheduled.
On the timing of her learning about the aid suspension – 18 July, she says, the day before she left the White House.
Is it fair to say that stops and starts in aid like this sometimes do happen?
“That’s correct.”
Steve Castor the Republican lawyer is asking questions now.
Hill says that she’s read that the DNC paid Fusion GPS to pay Christopher Steele for his dossier.
Nunes is done asking questions.
Nunes: “I want to get a few basic facts on the table of individuals who were involved in the 2016 election to see who you know and whom you’ve met with.”
This is the same round of questioning Nunes has used every time and it’s meant to advance the conspiracy theory Hill has been warning about, that the Ukrainians and DNC colluded to tamper in the 2016 election.
Now we’re on to the Steele dossier. Steele was Hill’s counterpart for some time, and Hill met with him in 2016. She says she does not know the dates. “I don’t recall but I did meet with him some times before 2016.”
Nunes is asking Hill about the dossier. Hill says she saw the Steele dossier at the Brookings Institution the day before it was published. She called it “a rabbit hole.”
Schiff gavels the committee to order. Here’s Nunes.
The witnesses have returned to the room.
Clearly the House intelligence committee is having some trouble facing the fact that the afternoon ahead may represent the sunset hours of public hearings in impeachment ’19. Still waiting.
OK, Adam Schiff has come back to the hearing room and they’re about to resume for real this time. For updates also please follow @julianborger who is in the chamber.
A lot of people on the Internet are putting Trump’s lyrics to music. Who did it best?
somebody on twitter today: trump's weird hand-scrawled denial today sounds like a ramones song.
— Alex Kliment (@SaoSasha) November 21, 2019
me: pic.twitter.com/mynZjx0E0M
Emo Trump recites poem on White House lawn pic.twitter.com/rAD3xRjX4L
— Nick Lutsko (@NickLutsko) November 20, 2019
#IWantNothing (Now that I Got Caught ) pic.twitter.com/zlq4AcvQBU
— Plinkles🌊🌊🌊🇵🇸🇸🇾 Im+🍑 (@Plinkleton) November 21, 2019
My cover of the trump song “I want nothing”
— SeñorHettler🌎🌈 🆘 🍑🌹🌅 (@senorhettler) November 20, 2019
Written in September after congressional investigations started into his interactions with the new president of Ukraine, Zelensky.#TrumpResign pic.twitter.com/KLAF0G2794
False alarm there about the hearing having resumed. We’re still waiting. When they come back – shouldn’t be long now – they are expected to begin with questioning by Nunes and the Republican lawyer.
Will Republicans push back against Hill’s warning to “please not promote politically driven falsehoods that so clearly advance the Russian interests”?
Trump impeachment inquiry: witness rebukes Republicans for 'fictional' Ukraine narrative – video
Pelosi: 'Republicans are in denial about the facts'
A further line from the House speaker’s news conference:
Pelosi on charges the impeachment is not bipartisan: "Republicans are in denial about the facts. if they don't want to honor their oath of office, I don't think we should be characterized as partisan."
— Harry Litman (@harrylitman) November 21, 2019
Hill: 'this country has offered for me opportunities I never would have had in England'
This is a bit of a sidebar to her testimony but Hill’s low estimation of the professional environment in the UK has not gone unnoticed.
“Years later, I can say with confidence that this country has offered for me opportunities I never would have had in England,” Hill testified. “I grew up poor with a very distinctive working-class accent.”
Unfortunately, it's worse than that. She's saying even in 1980's 1990's, you couldn't get recognition for your talent and expertise if you had a working-class accent.
— Julian Borger (@julianborger) November 21, 2019
It was an indictment of Britain. https://t.co/jwE96Xj5Z4
She continued:
In England in the 1980s and 1990s, this would have impeded my professional advancement. This background has never set me back in America. For the better part of three decades, I have built a career as a nonpartisan, nonpolitical national security professional focusing on Europe and Eurasia and especially the former Soviet Union.
Pelosi: 'the evidence is clear'
House speaker Nancy Pelosi tells reporters that “the evidence is clear that the president has used his office for his own personal gain and in doing so undermined the national security of the United States.”
As for articles of impeachment: “We haven’t made any decision yet.”
.@SpeakerPelosi: "The evidence is clear that the president has used his office for his own personal gain."
— CSPAN (@cspan) November 21, 2019
Full video here: https://t.co/iFdbOGsjyt pic.twitter.com/9aEwFHJu80
Updated
Video of a key passage from Holmes:
WATCH: Holmes explains that the new Ukrainian president saw a White House meeting with President Trump as critical in order to send a message of US support to Russian President Putin. pic.twitter.com/aPKypdJorZ
— NBC News (@NBCNews) November 21, 2019
As previously signaled by the attorney general, the justice department inspector general is steaming ahead to release a report on its investigation of the early stages of the Russia investigation.
WASHINGTON (AP) — The Justice Department’s inspector general will release its report on the early stages of the FBI's Russia investigation on Dec. 9. Inspector General Michael Horowitz said in a letter Thursday the report will have minimal redactions.
— Eric Tucker (@etuckerAP) November 21, 2019
That report is not to be confused with the separate investigation of the Russia investigation and special counsel inquiry headed up by US attorney John Durham. The justice department has announced the Durham inquiry is now a criminal inquiry but the who and what are unclear.
Video of a key moment:
Hill: "In the course of this investigation, I would ask that you please not promote politically driven falsehoods that so clearly advance the Russian interests...These fictions are harmful even if they're deployed for purely domestic political purposes." pic.twitter.com/09nEoi4rUM
— Amee Vanderpool (@girlsreallyrule) November 21, 2019
Some reactions and analysis to this morning’s action in the impeachment hearing room:
Fiona Hill is emerging as a powerful witness - forensic and measured. She is describing Bolton's reaction to Sondland's attempt to make a White House meeting for the Ukraine president conditional on the requested investigations. Says Bolton stiffened, sat back and ended meeting.
— Julian Borger (@julianborger) November 21, 2019
Fiona Hill is also here to tell you that the right wing/Republican bubble of conspiracy theories is not real life and in fact, endanger us all.
— Midwin Charles (@MidwinCharles) November 21, 2019
Watching Dr Fiona Hill testify to Congress.
— Dmitry Grozoubinski (@DmitryOpines) November 21, 2019
My take: The UK's offer in any upcoming US FTA should be more exports of absolutely formidable Durham women in the lucrative "Ass-Kicking Services Sector".
Holmes basically says that it was clear to any sentient human that Burisma=Biden. https://t.co/pw3H6GK2w6
— Greg Miller (@gregpmiller) November 21, 2019
Did you make the Biden-Burisma connection?
— Marshall Cohen (@MarshallCohen) November 21, 2019
Hill: "it was very apparent."
Holmes: "Yes."
Morrison: Not right away, then "I googled it."
Sondland: I kinda figured it out by July-August, but didn't see GIuliani's TV hits or tweets.
Volker: No, never until the scandal broke.
Bolton is a coward.
— David Rothkopf (@djrothkopf) November 21, 2019
Updated
Ok they’re taking a break.
Hill: 'He had an agreement with chief of staff Mulvaney that in return for investigations that this meeting would be scheduled'
Hill is now describing a key scene, 10 July meetings at the White House in which Sondland told Ukrainians he had a deal with acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney for a White House meeting for Zelenskiy if the Ukrainians announced investigations of Burisma/Bidens.
Yesterday Sondland said he did mention investigations in these meetings but he couldn’t recall naming Mulvaney or specifically saying “Burisma” or “Biden.”
In contrast, Hill has no doubt about what she heard.
“I listened very carefully to ambassador Sondland’s testimony,” she said.
“The meeting had initially been scheduled for about 45 minutes to an hour. It was definitely in the wrap-up stage at this point... Danylyuk was talking...we’d also wanted to [talk] energy sector reform... and then we knew that the Ukrainians would have on their agenda inevitably a question about a meeting...
“Amb Bolton was trying to parry this back.. it’s not Amb Bolton’s role to start pulling out the schedule...and he does not as a matter of course like to discuss the details... then Amb Sondland leaned in, basically to say ‘Well, we have an agreement that there will be a meeting if specific investigations are put under way.”
Then Hill saw Bolton stiffen, look at his wristwatch, “and basically said ‘Well, it’s really great to see you, I’m afraid I’ve got another meeting’.”
Sondland had not specifically said Burisma or Mulvaney yet, Hill said – “It was unclear who arranged the agreement” – but then the group went to a downstairs room for a debrief.
“Later [Sondland] said that he had an agreement with chief of staff Mulvaney that in return for investigations that this meeting would be scheduled.”
Investigations of what nature?, Goldman asks.
“He said investigations in Burisma.”
Then Bolton told Hill to go to NSC lawyer John Eisenberg, she says.
“Specific instruction was I had to go to the lawyers... [he said] ‘You tell Eisenberg that I am not part of whatever drug deal that Mulvaney and Sondland were cooking up’.”
Did you know what he meant by ‘drug deal’?
“I took it to mean investigations for a meeting.”
Did you go speak to the lawyers?
“I certainly did.”
Did you relay this?
“I relayed it precisely.”
Powerful moment.
Holmes says everyone knew that 'Burisma' meant 'Biden'
Goldman asks Holmes whether he understood in the spring that “Burisma” meant “Biden.” Both Volker and Sondland have testified under oath that they did not draw the connection at the time.
Holmes answers “yes,” he understood the connection.
Do you think that anyone involved in Ukraine matters in the spring and the summer would understand that as well?
“Yes.”
Goldman has Hill testify to the role of Republican aide Kash Patel who was inserted in Ukraine policy at the time (and who has sued Politico using Devin Nunes’ lawyer).
“Kash Patel provided some information directly to the president without your knowledge?” Goldman asks.
Hill says that’s the case.
Was Zelenskiy already under pressure?
Yes, says Holmes.
To investigate Biden, Burisma and the 2016 elections?
“Correct.”
Holmes says Giuliani “was someone to contend with” in Ukraine.
Goldman focuses on the May 20 Zelenskiy inauguration. The US delegation included all three amigos plus the temporary chargé and Vindman.
Perry gave a list to Zelenskiy at the time, Holmes says. “He handed over a piece of paper. I did not see what was on the paper but secretary Perry described what was on the paper. A list of trusted individuals.”
Holmes believes the list was names from the American energy sector.
Hill quotes Bolton: 'Mr Giuliani is a hand grenade'
Goldman is asking Hill about what Bolton thought of Giuliani’s activities in Ukraine.
Hill said Giuliani was on TV a lot talking Ukraine, “and I had already brought to Amb Bolton’s attention the smear campaign against Amb Yovanovitch” which Hill calls shameful.
“Amb Bolton had looked pained, indicated with body language that there was nothing he could do about it” then said “Mr Giuliani is a hand grenade that is going to blow everyone up.”
What did that mean?
“That Mr Giuliani was pushing views,” Hill replies, “that would probably come back to haunt us, and that’s where we are today.”
Was president Trump adopting Vladimir Putin’s line on Ukraine over the official US assessment?, Goldman asks Hill.
She replies:
“I think we have to be very careful about the way that we phrase that. This is a view that president Putin... and many actors have promoted.. got some traction perhaps in parallel and separately here in the United States... those two strands fused together.”
Goldman then asks her about Trump’s meetings with Putin at the time. Hill affirms those happened.
Goldman reads from the 25 July call summary, quoting Trump about Crowdstrike.
Is this the conspiracy theory you’re talking about, Goldman asks Hill?
“Yes.”
Does that mean Trump ignored senior officials who told him that Crowdstrike was a conspiracy theory and listened to Giuliani instead?, Goldman asks Hill.
“That appears to be the case, yes,” she says.
Goldman notes that Trump praises Lutsenko on the 25 July call. He asks Holmes about Lutsenko.
Holmes:
He was not a good partner. He had failed to deliver on the promised reforms that he had committed to... he was using his office to insulate and protect political allies while presumably enriching himself.
Hill: 'very clear' that White House meeting predicated on investigations
Hill says she found the summary of the 25 July call “surprising.” In her deposition she said she was saddened by the call. It did not advance the US policy project.
Hill notes she left the White House before the call, but “In the months leading up” to it, “it became very clear the White House meeting itself was being predicated on other issues, namely investigations and the questions about the election interference in 2016.”
This is the restaurant, apparently, Sho.Kiev.
Looks like a nice restaurant https://t.co/nA9AotQ6tr
— Quinta "Pro Quo" Jurecic (@qjurecic) November 21, 2019
Holmes: Sondland said Trump only interested in 'big stuff'
Holmes asked Sondland about Trump’s views on Ukraine, Holmes testifies:
“He said he really doesn’t care about Ukraine... he says he cares about big stuff. I asked him what kind of big stuff...war with Russia? He said no, big stuff like the Biden investigation that Mr Giuliani’s pushing.”
Goldman asks why Holmes remembers the conversation so well.
Holmes: “This was a very distinctive experience... someone at a lunch.. making a call on his cell phone to the president of the United States... they were directly addressing something that I had been working on for weeks and months.. here he is actually having that contact. Hearing the president’s voice and hearing them talk about this Biden investigation issue that I’d been hearing about,”
Holmes says when the president came on it was “quite loud” and “distinctive.”
When Trump came on, Sondland winced and held the phone away from his ear, Holmes says.
What did Holmes hear Trump say?
“He clarified whether he was in Ukraine... he said, ‘is he gonna do the investigation.”
You heard that?
“Yes sir.”
What was Sondland’s response?
“He said oh yeah, he’s gonna do it, he’ll do anything you ask.”
Then they went to lunch. “The restaurant has glass doors that open onto a terrace,” Holmes says. They sat on the terrace. Two tables for two pushed together. “We were close enough that we could share an appetizer between us.”
Goldman asked: “This was an unsecure cell phone? In the middle of a restaurant in Kiev?”
Holmes: “Yes.”
Goldman is asking Holme about the Kiev restaurant patio scene. Before lunch, there was a meeting with Zelenskiy. Holmes took notes. Zelenskiy said the day before, 25 July, on his call with Trump, “three times president Zelenskiy said president Trump had brought up sensitive issues.”
What were those? Holmes did not at first understand clearly but with release of call records it was clear:
“The Burisma-Biden investigation,” Holmes says.
Goldman, the lawyer, is up. He asks the witnesses about Sondland’s authority.
“He told me it was the president” who put him in charge, Hill says.
Holmes agrees.
Schiff points out that Holmes said Ukrainians still “believed they had to” make a public statement even after the hold on aid was lifted.
“Whether the hold continued or not, the Ukrainians understood that that’s something the president wanted,” Holmes says.
The same pressures on Ukraine persist today, Holmes says. “This doesn’t end with the lifting of the security assistance hold.”
Holmes replies that US policy is to promote anti-corruption broadly but not to focus on specific cases.
“It’s hard to explain why we would do that,” Holmes says.
Schiff turns to Holmes. He rereads part of Holmes statement in which Holmes described the specific demand on Zelenskiy to go on cable to announce investigations.
It’s hypocrisy, Schiff said. “What are we doing? We’re asking them to investigate the president’s political rival.... What does that do to our anti-corruption efforts?
Hill is describing the Russian strategy and tactics:
This falls into a long pattern of deflection and Russians trying to place the blame on someone else.
Hill warns against giving Russians 'fodder' for 2020 tampering
Schiff says that Republican have bridled at Hill’s warning about not spreading Russian propaganda. But Schiff says that that’s just what Republicans have been up to.
“The House Republican report is an outlier,” Schiff says.
Then he asks Hill why Russians are pushing the Ukraine election tampering story.
Hill replies:
The Russian interest frankly is to de-legitimatize our entire presidency... The goal of the Russians was to put whoever became president... under a cloud.
This is exactly what the Russian government was hoping for... they have everybody questioning the legitimacy of a presidential candidate... they would pit one side against the other.
Now she’s talking bookies and Ladbrokes! She finishes:
I just want again to emphasize to be very careful... not to give them more fodder that they can use in 2020.
Schiff thanks the witnesses. He says Hill’s personal story reminds me of Vindman. “The few immigrant stories we’ve heard in the course of this hearing are among the most powerful I’ve ever heard.”
“You’re the best of this country,” Schiff says.
Hill wraps. Schiff recognizes himself.
Will the Republicans interrupt? ...
...
No. Here he goes.
Hill: “I would ask that you please not promote politically driven falsehoods that so clearly advance Russian interests.”:
I say this not as an alarmist, but as a realist. I do not think long-term conflict with Russia is either desirable or inevitable. I continue to believe that we need to seek ways of stabilizing our relationship with Moscow even as we counter their efforts to harm us.
Right now, Russia’s security services and their proxies have geared up to repeat their interference in the 2020 election. We are running out of time to stop them.
In the course of this investigation, I would ask that you please not promote politically driven falsehoods that so clearly advance Russian interests.
Hill:
The Russian government’s goal is to weaken our country—to diminish America’s global role and to neutralize a perceived U.S. threat to Russian interests. President Putin and the Russian security services aim to counter U.S. foreign policy objectives in Europe, including in Ukraine, where Moscow wishes to reassert political and economic dominance.
Now Hill is turning her warning about the “fictional narrative that has been perpetrated and propagated by the Russian security services themselves”:
The impact of the successful 2016 Russian campaign remains evident today. Our nation is being torn apart. Truth is questioned. Our highly professional and expert career foreign service is being undermined. U.S. support for Ukraine—which continues to face armed Russian aggression—has been politicized.
Hill mentions her County Durham accent:
I grew up poor with a very distinctive working-class accent. In England in the 1980s and 1990s, this would have impeded my professional advancement. This background has never set me back in America.
Hill is telling the story of her coal-miner father and grandfather.
She said, “I take great pride in the fact that I am a nonpartisan foreign policy expert, who has served under three different Republican and Democratic presidents.”
I have no interest in advancing the outcome of your inquiry in any particular direction, except toward the truth. 2 I will not provide a long narrative statement, because I believe that the interest of Congress and the American people is best served by allowing you to ask me your questions. I am happy to expand upon my October 14th deposition testimony in response to your questions today
Hill gets into her opening statement. This line sounds an awful lot like a dig at John Bolton, her former boss who has resisted testifying:
I believe that those who have information that the Congress deems relevant have a legal and moral obligation to provide it.
Holmes wraps. Hill is up.
Pace the president, it turns out that David Holmes is not the only one to have overheard a Trump phone call. From a Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist:
I sat in the backseat of a moving car on a busy Ohio highway and heard your every word during your call with the guy I knew sitting in the front seat. You were not on speakerphone, @realDonaldTrump. As my mother would say, your voice carries. https://t.co/awZn8fHn3j
— Connie Schultz (@ConnieSchultz) November 21, 2019
Holmes says that Taylor and Yovanovitch’s testimony in the impeachment hearings reflects his own understanding.
But he has recently read reports that certain senior officials were freelancing in Ukraine, not at the president’s direction, he said, and that evidence in the impeachment hearing was a matter of hearsay.
Since he knew both to be untrue, Holmes testifies, he felt impelled to tell Taylor that he had firsthand information and to testify.
Holmes: military aid withheld by Trump to express dissatisfaction or increase pressure
By August, Holmes says, “My clear impression was that the hold was intended by the president either as an expression of dissatisfaction...[that Ukrainians had not announced investigations] or as an attempt to increase the pressure on them to do so.”
Holmes then describes how embassy staff watched as Zelenskiy prepared to go on CNN in September to announce the investigations. They thought it was going to happen, Holmes said.
Holmes quotes Sondland: Trump 'only cares about big stuff'
Holmes says Sondland told him Trump only cared about “big stuff” in Ukraine “like the Biden investigation that Mr Giuliani was pushing”:
I then took the opportunity to ask Ambassador Sondland for his candid impression of the President’s views on Ukraine. In particular, I asked Ambassador Sondland if it was true that the President did not give s hit about Ukraine. Ambassador Sondland agreed that the President did not give a shit about Ukraine.
I asked why not, and Ambassador Sondland stated, the President only cares about, quote, unquote, big stuff. I noted that there was, quote, unquote, big stuff going on in Ukraine, like a war with Russia.
And Ambassador Sondland replied that he meant, quote, unquote, big stuff that benefits the President, like the quote, unquote, Biden investigation that Mr. Giuliani was pushing. The conversation then moved on to other topics.
Holmes continues telling the story of the lunch and Sondland’s conversation with Trump about springing A$AP Rocky from jail in Sweden.
Ambassador Sondland further told the President that Sweden, quote, should have released him on your word, unquote, but that, quote you can tell the Kardashians you tried.
Holmes quotes Trump: 'so he's going to do the investigation?'
Holmes continues:
During the lunch, Ambassador Sondland said that he was going to call President Trump to give him an update. Ambassador Sondland placed a call on his mobile phone, and I heard him announce himself several times, along the lines of: Gordon Sondland holding for the President.
It appeared that he was being transferred through several layers of switchboards and assistants. I then noticed Ambassador Sondland’s demeanor change, and understood that he had been connected to President Trump.
While Ambassador Sondland’s phone was not on speaker phone, I could hear the President’s voice through the ear piece of the phone. The President’s voice was very loud and recognizable, and Ambassador Sondland held the phone away from his ear for a period of time, presumably because of the loud volume.
I heard Ambassador Sondland greet the President and explain that he was calling from Kyiv. I heard President Trump then clarify that Ambassador Sondland was in Ukraine. Ambassador Sondland replied yes, he was in Ukraine, and went on to state that President Zelensky, quote, unquote, loves your ass.
I then heard President Trump ask, quote, “So he’s going to do the investigation?” unquote. Ambassador Sondland replied that, “He’s going to do it,” adding that President Zelensky will quote, “Do anything you ask him to.”
Holmes is now describing his day in Ukraine with Sondland, 26 July.
This is verbatim from his closed-door deposition:
When the meeting ended, the two staffers and I accompanied Ambassador Sondland out of the Presidential Administration Building and to the embassy vehicle. Ambassador Sondland said that he wanted to go to lunch, and I told Ambassador Sondland that I would be happy to join if he wanted to brief me out on the Yermak meeting or discuss other issues, and Ambassador Sondland said that I should join. The two staffers joined for lunch as well.
The four of us went to a nearby restaurant and sat on an outdoor terrace. I sat directly across from Ambassador Sondland, and the two staffers sat off to our sides. At first, the lunch was largely social. Ambassador Sondland selected a bottle of wine that he shared among the four of us, and we discussed topics such as marketing strategies for his hotel business.
Holmes 'deeply disappointed' by Trump-Zelenskiy call
Holmes says “contrary to standard procedure” he got no readout of the 25 July Trump-Zelenskiy call.
When he read the call summary in September, Holmes says, “I was deeply disappointed to see that the president raised none” of the policy priorities “and instead raised the Biden-Burisma investigation and referred to the theory about Crowdstrike.”
Holmes said there was growing concern in Kiev that a Trump-Zelenskiy might not go well, after Trump met with Vladimir Putin in July.
Holmes is now on to military aid, which he describes as “crucial” in the Ukrainian defensive war against Russia.
Holmes said he traveled to US-run military training facilities in Ukraine with congress members including Republican Elise Stefanik who sits on the committee.
He was “shocked” by the announcement in 18 July of the hold on assistance, Holmes says. The order had come from the president, an OMB official said, and it was conveyed by Mulvaney.
Holmes is describing how the Ukrainians tried to arrange a White House meeting but had to settle, at first, for attending a June party in Brussels thrown by Gordon Sondland and featuring Jared Kushner and Jay Leno.
“The Ukrainian policy community was unanimous in recognizing the importance of securing a meeting,” Holmes said. “Ambassador Volker told us that the next five years could hang on what could be accomplished in the next three months.”
Holmes said the White House would not budge on the presidential meeting. The message was that Zelenskiy needed to make clear to Trump that he would not stand in the way of investigations.
Holmes: Giuliani 'had a direct influence' on US policy in Ukraine
Holmes says the “barrage” against Yovanovitch was “unlike any I have seen in my professional career.”
“It quickly became clear that the White House was not prepared the level of support for the Zelenskiy administration that we had anticipated,” Holmes says.
Trump declined to meet with Zelenskiy, and Pence canceled plans to travel to the Ukrainian’s inauguration, Holmes says.
Enter Sondland. “He made clear that he had direct and frequent access to president Trump and chief of staff Mick Mulvaney,” Holmes says.
At the same time, Giuliani took “an active role” in Ukraine policy. “Over the following months, it became apparent that Mr Giuliani had a direct influence on the policy that the three amigos were executing on the ground in Ukraine,” Holmes says.
Holmes is describing corruption and public lies spread by the former Ukrainian prosecutor general Yuri Lutsenko, Giuliani’s ally in the effort to take down Yovanovitch.
“Mr Giuliani and others made a number of public statements critical of Yovanovitch” and other statements calling for investigations of supposed Ukrainian interference in the US election, Burisma and the Bidens, Holmes says.
Holmes brought receipts. He’s citing news reports, and Giuliani tweets, that track Giuliani’s growing campaign to call for a Biden investigation in Ukraine.
Holmes: Giuliani moves 'overshadowed' US policy in Ukraine
Holmes has been saying that his focus and expertise is Ukrainian politics and definitely not US politics which he would rather stay out of.
He’s describing Marie Yovanovitch’s work in Ukraine, favorably. US policy in the region was “overshadowed by a political agenda promoted by former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani and a cadre of officials with direct access to the White House.”
Trump attacks Holmes testimony on Twitter
Holmes joined the foreign service in 2002 under George W Bush and has “proudly served” both parties, he says. He previously served in Russia, Afghanistan, India, Colombia and Kosovo.
He leads the political section in Kiev, focused on internal Ukrainian politics.
Meanwhile Trump is attacking the testimony Holmes is about to give, about overhearing Trump on the phone with Sondland:
I have been watching people making phone calls my entire life. My hearing is, and has been, great. Never have I been watching a person making a call, which was not on speakerphone, and been able to hear or understand a conversation. I’ve even tried, but to no avail. Try it live!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 21, 2019
Didn’t somebody tell him not to do this after the Yovanovitch attack?
Holmes is first.
He introduces himself as a career foreign service officer stationed in Kiev since 2017. He reads the boilerplate about not seeking to testify but following the Mike Pompeo order about doing so truthfully.
“My entire career has been in the service of my country,” he says.
Hill and Holmes are sworn in pic.twitter.com/JBm46OVdUK
— Olivia Beavers (@Olivia_Beavers) November 21, 2019
Nunes seeks to rebut Hill before she speaks
After declaring his gratitude for the “merciful end” of the hearings, Nunes says the minority wants to convene an additional day of hearings, no doubt to hear from Hunter Biden. Slim chance of that coming to pass.
Now Nunes turns to Hill’s opening statement – before she has delivered it.
Nunes defends the committee against accusations that it has bypassed or papered over Russian election interference. That doesn’t mean we can’t investigate alleged Ukrainian interference, Nunes says. “Republicans believe we should take interference seriously by all foreign parties,” he says.
“Today’s hearing marks the merciful end of this spectacle...” Nunes continues. “Whether the Democrats reap the political benefit they sought from this impeachment remains to be seen but the damage they have done to this country” will last long, Nunes warns.
He says Democrats have “poisoned the mind of fanatics” who believe ... the witnesses?
Nunes decries 'carousel of accusations'
Schiff is done and Nunes is up. Nunes calls the hearings “bizarre” and accuses the Democrats of changing their allegations depending on the day. He calls it a “carousel of accusations”.
Then he immediately jumps to “Ukrainian election meddling in his campaign” – the precise Russian propaganda narrative Hill will warn Republicans not to float.
“How do we have an impeachable offense here when there’s no actual misdeed and nobody even claiming to be a victim?” Nunes says.
Then he brings up the Steele dossier.
Updated
Trump has just tweeted:
Read the two Transcripts of Ukrainian calls!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 21, 2019
Those would be the transcripts in which Trump tells the Ukrainian president about the things he wants.
Schiff has arrived at the day, 26 July, Holmes spent with Sondland in Kyiv. Zelenskiy told the group that on their phone call a day earlier, “President Trump had three times raised some very sensitive issues”. Holmes later understood the sensitive issues were the investigations Trump wanted.
Holmes waited for Sondland and Andriy Yermak the Zelenskiy aide to meet alone. Then they went to lunch.
Schiff tells the lunch story. All the highlights are in there: “Loves your ass”, “So he’s going to do the investigation?” “He’s going to do it”, “President Trump doesn’t give a expletive about Ukraine, the president only cares about the big stuff like the Biden investigation that Giuliani was pushing.”
Updated
Schiff tells the story of a Hill-Sondland clash over Ukraine on 18 June 2019. Hill testified previously:
I said who has put you in charge of it?
He said, ‘The President’
Schiff, moving quickly, is now on the story of the 10 July White House meetings in which Sondland told Ukrainians that a meeting was contingent on the announcement of investigations.
Schiff has quoted Bolton about Sondland and Mulvaney’s “drug deal” and Giuliani being a “hand grenade”.
Updated
Schiff moves to previewing the testimony we’ll hear today. Hill was alarmed by what Rudy Giuliani was saying on TV, Schiff says. National security adviser John Bolton and Holmes, the Kiev state department aide, were concerned too, Schiff says.
Ukraine ambassador Marie Yovanovitch’s “dismissal as a result of Giuliani’s smear campaign” was one thing that unsettled Dr Hill, Schiff says. The other was the role of Sondland who was pressuring Ukrainians to announce investigations.
Schiff is reading his opening statement. He is reviewing the highlight’s of Sondland’s testimony and describing two investigations Trump sought, the “discredited conspiracy theory” about 2016 election tampering and the Joe Biden investigation.
In conditioning a White House meeting and military aid on announcement of investigations, Schiff says, “Trump put his personal and political interest above the United States”.
Updated
The witnesses, Hill and Holmes, are behind their chairs and preparing to be sworn in.
The video player atop the blog there is the place to be – hearing room is full and we’re about to begin.
What will it be like to hear Fiona Hill take questions from Jim Jordan?
Brookings Institute senior fellow and Lawfare impresario Ben Wittes has a Twitter thread going about what to expect from Hill.
It includes this warning to Republicans:
One other thing—a warning to the cocky Republican member who may try to be patronizing or think he or she is gonna have a good C-SPAN moment at Fiona’s expense: Fiona is smarter than you. She knows more. And she is impatient with idiocy. You are likely to embarrass yourself.
— Benjamin Wittes (@benjaminwittes) November 21, 2019
Wittes’ thread in full:
This is a good opportunity to say a few words about Fiona Hill, who has been a @BrookingsInst colleague for many years. Fiona is a formidable person—a first-rate mind with genuine and unusual expertise in Russia policy.
She was not a Trumpist, in any sense, which made her decision to go into the administration a matter of some surprise among her colleagues. For a serious Russia hand to serve in Trump’s NSC was, after all, quite a leap.
I am sure that Fiona has had to make compromises as a result of the contradictions inherent in that decision. (Imagine being a serious Russia person on the NSC during and after Helsinki, for example).
But it should be impossible to dismiss Fiona’s testimony as that of a Never Trumper. This is someone who was not a career bureaucrat who was willing—to the confusion of much of her professional cohort—to go into government in a political role to serve under Trump *on Russia.*
One other thing—a warning to the cocky Republican member who may try to be patronizing or think he or she is gonna have a good C-SPAN moment at Fiona’s expense: Fiona is smarter than you. She knows more. And she is impatient with idiocy. You are likely to embarrass yourself.
Hill to Republicans: 'Please do not promote politically driven falsehoods that so clearly advance Russian interests'
Hill will warn that Russia has “geared up to repeat their interference in the 2020 election” and asks the committee not to help them by confusing who it was that attacked the United States in 2016.
But she will be competing with a very loud voice working to sow that confusion: Donald Trump. Witnesses have described an Ahab-like zeal on Trump’s part to uncover evidence of the Fox News- and Kremlin-promoted conspiracy theory that Ukraine worked to undermine him in 2016. “They tried to take me down,” he told diplomats in May.
Every prominent Republican on the intelligence committee, from ranking member Devin Nunes on down, has worked to advance the Ukraine election tampering conspiracy theory during the impeachment hearings.
Stop it, Hill will say:
US support for Ukraine – which continues to face armed Russian aggression – has been politicized.
The Russian government’s goal is to weaken our country – to diminish America’s global role and to neutralize a perceived US threat to Russian interests. President Putin and the Russian security services aim to counter US foreign policy objectives in Europe, including in Ukraine, where Moscow wishes to reassert political and economic dominance.
I say this not as an alarmist, but as a realist. I do not think long-term conflict with Russia is either desirable or inevitable. I continue to believe that we need to seek ways of stabilizing our relationship with Moscow even as we counter their efforts to harm us.
Right now, Russia’s security services and their proxies have geared up to repeat their interference in the 2020 election. We are running out of time to stop them. In the course of this investigation, I would ask that you please not promote politically driven falsehoods that so clearly advance Russian interests.
Updated
Hill to call out Republicans for spreading Russian propaganda about 2016 election
Fiona Hill will seek to correct Republicans on the intelligence committee who have been saying for weeks that Ukraine colluded with Democrats to tamper the 2016 election, according to her opening statement just released – it is here.
“This is a fictional narrative that has been perpetrated and propagated by the Russian security services themselves,” Hill plans to say.
We are running out of time to stop them. In the course of this investigation, I would ask that you please not promote politically driven falsehoods that so clearly advance Russian interests.
Hill delivered a similar message in her closed-door deposition last month. Hill’s statement this morning reads in part:
Based on questions and statements I have heard, some of you on this committee appear to believe that Russia and its security services did not conduct a campaign against our country—and that perhaps, somehow, for some reason, Ukraine did.
This is a fictional narrative that has been perpetrated and propagated by the Russian security services themselves.
The unfortunate truth is that Russia was the foreign power that systematically attacked our democratic institutions in 2016. This is the public conclusion of our intelligence agencies, confirmed in bipartisan Congressional reports. It is beyond dispute, even if some of the underlying details must remain classified.
Hill will go on to say that the attack on career public servants during the impeachment proceedings – mounted by Donald Trump and Republicans – are part of the ongoing fallout of the successful Russian active measures campaign:
The impact of the successful 2016 Russian campaign remains evident today. Our nation is being torn apart. Truth is questioned. Our highly professional and expert career foreign service is being undermined.
Fiona Hill is going to be dismissed by House Republicans as a Never Putiner https://t.co/GIvnXdR8g8
— Neal Katyal (@neal_katyal) November 21, 2019
Updated
Good morning and welcome to our live coverage of day five of the impeachment hearings. It could be the final day of public testimony, with no further witnesses currently scheduled.
Testimony by Gordon Sondland, the ambassador to the European Union, on Wednesday reduced Donald Trump to yelling: “I want nothing! I want nothing!” after weeks of urging supporters to read the transcript of a phone call in which he tells the Ukrainian president about the things he wants.
Testimony today could prove no less extraordinary, and damaging for Trump. Appearing will be Fiona Hill, former senior director for Europe and Russia on the national security council (NSC), and David Holmes, a state department aide based in Kyiv.
Phrases we might hear today: “drug deal”, “hand grenade”, “loves your ass” and “President Trump does not give a shit about Ukraine”.
Come for the colorful language, stay for the substance. Hill, a coalminer’s daughter from County Durham, is a senior policy expert who can describe key White House scenes in which Sondland pressed the Ukrainians for investigations in exchange for a White House meeting.
Hill’s boss at the time, former national security adviser John Bolton, who has resisted testifying, told her to go straight to NSC lawyer John Eisenberg, she has said:
You go and tell Eisenberg that I am not part of whatever drug deal Sondland and [acting chief of staff Mick] Mulvaney are cooking up on this, and you go and tell him what you’ve heard and what I’ve said.
Holmes, meanwhile, was expected to describe the sunny day he spent with Sondland last July in Kyiv, which culminated with Sondland on a restaurant patio drinking wine and having a loud cellphone conversation with the president.
Sondland acknowledged both the White House meeting and restaurant conversation yesterday, but he did not quite recall every detail, such as telling Holmes that Trump only cares about “the big stuff” in Ukraine – meaning investigations that would help Trump.
Read more about Hill here:
And in case you tapered off before the evening close of yesterday’s hearings, here’s House intelligence committee chairman Adam Schiff’s concluding statement:
Let’s judge Trump’s conduct by his words and deeds:
— Adam Schiff (@RepAdamSchiff) November 21, 2019
Recalls Ambassador Yovanovitch, after she’s falsely smeared.
Praises Ukraine’s corrupt former prosecutor.
Asks Ukraine to investigate his rival.
Holds up aid until it does.
That’s not anti-corruption.
Just corruption. pic.twitter.com/RK6Xa4mJMU
Updated
