OK, I’m going to close the blog (again) now while Christopher Knaus and I continue to trawl through these documents. There are more than 2,000 pages, so, you know, think of me while you’re having fun tonight.
I’ll be back tomorrow, with the hearings to resume at 10am.
Updated
The newly tendered evidence also reveals an interesting perspective on the oil and gas lobby and its contact with federal MPs.
Malcolm Roberts, the former chief executive of the Australian Petroleum Production and Exploration Association, was called in by Icac investigators to talk about a meeting he had with Darly Maguire in 2018 at a Canberra coffee shop.
Maguire was pitching a “new enhanced oil recovery technique” developed by a Chinese business, and trying to see whether local industry would be interested in it.
Roberts said Maguire’s approach was different to most he received during his time in Canberra. Most MPs would just use him to make a connection between their constituents and a company, he said.
MPs would occasionally be in touch, usually just to find a contact, you know? So, occasionally, you’ll have an MP who might say, ‘I have a constituent who has a problem’ and they will not ... usually do anything other than just connect to parties.
So most recently, for example, I’ve had a federal member of parliament – who had a local business – that was struggling to work out where they were going to buy their next supply of gas from, and the company soon contacted me directly to say that their local of member of parliament had suggested they speak to me, whether there was any connections in the industry they should make to seek, whether there are alternative contracts available.
So normally, the – my experience with has been MPs will perhaps ask for a name, or perhaps direct someone to have a conversation with you; not go quite so far as to be presenting themselves with information from another party, and normally they just make the connection.
Updated
The newly released documents show that NSW Liberal MP Tanya Davies met with Louise Waterhouse and Daryl Maguire while they were lobbying for a roundabout to be moved to improve land access to the racing heiress’s massive landholding near the western Sydney airport.
The changes would have helped Waterhouse improve the value of her land significantly and aid in either its development or sale, Icac has heard.
In an interview with investigators, Davies says that Waterhouse claimed moving the roundabout would also help lower the terrorist risk to the new airport, because it would give would-be terrorists less run-up towards the runway.
Davies then wrote to the head of the airport to raise the terrorism concerns and Waterhouse’s concerns.
Davies told Icac investigators:
Anyway so ... I thought the argument – from my perspective the argument to me made sense in terms of I ... I was concerned about the terrorist link she raised and also about the fairness in terms of being able to provide opportunities for – for more constituents rather than just favouring one.
So I wrote to the airport CEO at the time, because it had a concern around the safety and – and I guess I just wanted to bring it to his attention that – to make sure that that had at least been ticked off or – or considered or addressed.
She copied the letter to “a couple of the state ministers” so they were aware of Waterhouse’s request too.
Updated
Here’s the NSW roads minister, Melinda Pavey, during an interview with Icac investigators in 2019. She’s describing a phone call she received from Daryl Maguire in 2018, complaining about roads surrounding the western Sydney airport. This phone call led to the meeting with Pavey’s staffer, to which Maguire brought Louise Waterhouse.
I do remember getting a call from Daryl Maguire at some point last year, middle of last year maybe, about this, suggesting that the – my agency got it all wrong. This was going to hold up potential work and a lot of thought that had gone on from business people in western Sydney.
I don’t remember him saying to me any name or any, you know, any interest. It was as if it was impacting on – on plans that business people in western Sydney had had and – and our agency was going to make their – their life difficult with the way the route had been decided.
Updated
Icac has just tendered a pile of transcripts from private interviews, so I’m going to restart the blog and feed some of them to you.
The first is from an interview with Karen Barbey. She’s a long-time friend of Daryl Maguire’s and the partner of Phillip Elliott who was his business partner at G8Way International.
During an interview with Icac investigators on 9 July last year, she told them she’d met Gladys Berejiklian on a number of occasions, including a dinner at Maguire’s house and a local Wagga Wagga restaurant called Romanos.
Barbey told investigators:
There was one [function] at the – one near the underpass. Met her there and I have met her at Daryl’s place. We had dinner at night as well and I’m trying to think. Um, I think those – oh and we went to Romano’s for dinner one night.
Barbey told the investigators she couldn’t recall the date of the dinners.
It was way back. Like not way back but going back a bit.
Updated
What we learned
So, after many delays, and much intrigue, that is where I will leave you for today. But the hearing will resume at 10am tomorrow, when, hopefully, we’ll find out a little bit about what has gone on behind closed doors today.
Here’s what we learned:
- The former Wagga Wagga MP Daryl Maguire told a corruption hearing he had spoken to the premier, Gladys Berejiklian, about “general problems” he had been having, including the $1.5m debt he had been hoping to pay off by facilitating a land deal over a Western Sydney property owned by racing heir Louise Waterhouse.
- Maguire told Icac he “may have” raised his debt with Berejiklian, “seeking some guidance and reassurance”.
- But the former MP told Icac he couldn’t recall whether he had spoken to Berejiklian in detailed terms about the land deal, despite a phone intercept which shows the premier replied “I can believe it” when he told her he believed he would be able to pay off the debt having secured a buyer for Waterhouse.
- Maguire told Icac he had been in a secret “on again off again” relationship since about 2015. The two only ceased contact last month. Asked if the relationship was still ongoing Maguire replied: “Not after this”, referring to the Icac inquiry.
- The hearing was delayed by a significant private session to discuss what the counsel assisting Scott Robertson called questions which “trespasses on matters of significant privacy”. After a prolonged break, Robertson returned to say “another matter, a separate matter” had arisen forcing them to adjourn the hearing until tomorrow morning.
- In NSW parliament question time, Berejiklian faced sustained grilling from the opposition over her claims that she was not aware of what Maguire had been telling her in the intercepted phone calls. She labelled questions about whether she was being used as “a sounding board for corruption” as “extremely offensive”.
Updated
Icac adjourns early after 'another issue arose'
They’re back! And, oh, it’s only for Robertson to say that they’re going to adjourn the hearing until tomorrow.
He says that after the private session they took lunch. Then “another issue arose” which prompted them to stay in a private session and now adjourn until tomorrow.
“The issue that has caused a number of hours of delay ... was not the issue I was addressing” before lunch.
It was, he says, “another matter, a separate matter”.
An issue has then arisen with connection to that matter which is causing me to make the application I’m now making which is to adjourn the matter to 10am tomorrow.
So, OK. Nothing curious about that at all.
Updated
Gladys Berejiklian angrily denies wrongdoing in fiery question time
It’s been another torrid question time, with premier Gladys Berejiklian branding opposition questions about whether she was being used as “a sounding board for corruption’ as “extremely offensive”.
Disgraced MP Daryl Maguire agreed in Icac just before lunch that he had sought reassurance from Berejiklian about business deals he was doing.
In question time, Labor’s Jodi McKay prefaced a question about whether the electorate could trust the premier with this:
You said you didnt know Iwan Sunito – but you did. You said you didn’t know what UWE was – but you did. You said you didn’t know your office was used to lobby property developers – but you did. You said you didn’t know Daryl Maguire stood to profit from a property deal he was lobbying for – but you did.
A deeply angered Berejiklian replied that she had not done anything wrong. “I never have and I never will,” she said.
Updated
What we've learned so far.
While we’re on this long, long, long break, let me fill you in on what’s happened so far today.
- Daryl Maguire, the former Wagga Wagga MP, admitted he had hoped to make about $1.5m on a potential sale of land owned by the racing heir Louise Waterhouse in Western Sydney. “Pretty good going,” Maguire said in a phone intercept when he learned the potential sale price.
- Maguire admitted to Icac that his involvement with Waterhouse was motivated by a desire to make money before retiring from parliament.
- Maguire described his relationship with the NSW premier, Gladys Berejiklian, as “on again off again”, between about 2015 and August or September of this year. Asked if the relationship was still ongoing, Maguire replied: “Not after this I wouldn’t be,” referring to Icac’s investigation.
- Maguire arranged a “drop-in” meeting for his property developer friend, Joseph Alha, with the premier, Gladys Berejiklian. There’s no suggestion Berejiklian knew about the meeting, and Maguire insisted it went for about two minutes and included “general niceties”.
- In a phone intercept, Maguire told Alha he would arrange to deliver an email to Berejiklian about a property development he was having issues with. “I’ll give it to her, all right,” Maguire said on the call.
Updated
We were really starting to get into the detail there of what the premier knew or didn’t know about Maguire’s involvement with the Badgerys Creek deal.
We know from the phone intercept that we heard (for a second time, it was played on Monday when the premier gave evidence) that Maguire had told her he hoped to wipe off his $1.5m debt if the sale of the Waterhouse land went ahead.
So far, though, Maguire has told the inquiry he doesn’t remember what, if anything, else he told Berejiklian about his involvement.
I’m uh, curious, to say the least, about what’s going on in the private session, and am instead stuck listening to Icac’s awful hold music.
Updated
Icac goes dark
Ah. It looks like we’re going into a private session.
Robertson makes the submission to close the hearing to the public (and nosey journalists) temporarily. He did the same when Berejiklian gave evidence on Monday.
The relationship, he says, is relevant to the inquiry, and he needs to question Maguire on it, but, he says Icac should not be “a public trial as to the nature and extent of the relationship” between Maguire and Berejiklian.
Robertson:
Given it trespasses on matters of considerable personal privacy, in my respectful submission, the public interest of dealing with these matters in public ... in the case of the particular matters I now want to put to Mr Maguire is outweighed and in my submission significantly outweighed ... by the privacy of Mr Maguire and Ms Berejiklian.
Updated
Robertson takes Maguire to he and Berejiklian’s plans for “a potential future for you both going forward”.
Robertson:
One of the things you were considering and to your understanding she was considering was whether to make your relationship more public.
Maguire:
Yes.
Maguire agrees that that would have only happened if he retired, and says that by late in September he had made up his mind to retire. Robertson suggests that would be “contingent or at least affected” by his financial position.
Maguire:
I was going regardless in my mind.
He tells Robertson he “certainly did broach the subject” of his retirement with Berejiklian.
Maguire sought 'guidance' from Berejiklian
Robertson is pushing Maguire on what he told Berejiklian on the Badgerys Creek deal.
“I can’t recall,” he says.
Robertson is trying to pin him down on what Berejiklian knew. Maguire concedes he spoke to the premier in general detail about his business affairs, but says he doesn’t remember what exactly he told her. He says he sought “guidance” on “what I was doing... to solve some issues” in relation to his debts, but can’t recall whether that related to the Western Sydney land deal.
Robertson:
Presumably you might have told her Ms Waterhouse had some relevance to what you call the Badgerys Creek stuff?
Maguire:
Perhaps, yes.
Robertson:
Perhaps, or yes?
Maguire:
I’m not sure, I’m just not sure.
Updated
'On again off again': Maguire discusses relationship with premier
And now we’re back to Maguire and Gladys Bereijklian. Robertson plays the call between the two of them in which he tells the premier that it “looks like we’ve got the Badgerys Creek stuff done”
He tells her he will be able to pay off his debts.
Can you believe it, in one sale.
She says: I can believe it.
Robertson:
At the time of this call were you in close personal relationship with Ms Berejiklian.
Maguire:
Yes.
Robertson:
Are you still?
Maguire:
Not after this I wouldn’t be.
Maguire confirms they had been in close personal relationship from about 2015, but that it was “a bit on again off again”.
Updated
Robertson asks Maguire whether, on the basis of that call, it was “clear to you in the event of the sale that you would be looked after?”
Maguire agrees.
Robertson:
Looked after you so well you would be in a position to pay off your debts?
Maguire:
Yes.
'Pretty good going': Maguire told sale of Waterhouse land could net $330m
We’re played a phone intercept between William Luong and Daryl Maguire in which Luong says he believes he’s found a buyer for the Waterhouse land.
Maguire asks how much, and Luong tells him $330m.
Maguire:
$330m, that’s pretty good going.
It’s “good for everybody all around”, he says.
It’s nice to try and help people, I like to help people.
Updated
Maguire says he had “considered” that the sale of the Smart.West land might net him a $1.5m commission.
Yes, I had considered that, yes.
Robertson:
In the event the sale was successful you stood to get a fee of at least $1.5m?
Maguire:
Up to, yes.
As we’ve previously heard, Maguire had debts in the range of $1.5m and wanted to pay them off before retiring at the 2019 election.
Updated
For the second time today, Maguire agrees he was a “door opener” to public officials. This time, in relation to the Waterhouse deal.
Robertson shows Maguire a message he sent to Waterhouse in which he tells her that he has spoken to the roads minister, Melinda Pavey. This was in relation to the relocation of an intersection, which Waterhouse was seeking.
We’ve previously heard Maguire and Waterhouse met with one of Pavey’s staff members. The staffer came away from the meeting slightly bemused by the interaction, and the intersection was never moved.
Updated
Robertson probes Maguire on his relationship with Country Garden, the Chinese development company which owns large tracts of land surrounding the western Sydney airport zone.
Robertson:
You sought to get them involved in a number of projects including the Smart.West project?
Maguire:
I can’t remember whether it was me or Mr Luong [the agent who was helping find a buyer or investor for Waterhouse] who got them involved.
Robertson:
Did you provide any assistance to Country Garden in obtaining relationships or trying to build relationships with any government officials?
Maguire:
Um, my recollection says there was a lunch held at some point with the new managing director of Country Garden at their request.
Robertson now takes Maguire to a ministerial diary showing a meeting between Maguire, Country Garden, and the planning minister. Maguire agrees he arranged that meeting, saying it was a “general meet and greet”.
Maguire:
Nothing specific was spoken about but Country Garden wanted to make an impression ... they wanted to pay their respects to the minister.
Robertson asks Maguire whether he was ever consider or hoping to have a consultant role or any other job with Country Garden “during or post” his political career.
Maguire:
It was touched on at some point.
Robertson:
And was that a factor you took into account when doing things like setting up [the meeting with the minister]?
Maguire:
Yes.
Updated
Robertson again asks Maguire whether he thought he would receive a “substantial commission or other payment arising from the sale of the Smart.West land or part of that land”.
Maguire:
At some point it was suggested to me.
Not by Waterhouse, he clarifies, but one of the agents he arranged for her to deal with.
Maguire though is insisting he was not motivated primarily or solely by money, and that he was concerned about issues faced by residents in Western Sydney.
McColl interjects:
Why, Mr Maguire, you’re the member for Wagga.
She asks why he didn’t just introduce Waterhouse to the local MP. He says he did, but eventually concedes that his involvement had nothing to do with his role as either an MP or parliamentary secretary.
Updated
And we’re back. Robertson is still pushing Maguire on his business relationship with Louise Waterhouse.
Robertson points Maguire to an appointment for 26 April, 2017, eight days after he emailed Waterhouse about discussing the Badgerys Creek development.
The meeting included Waterhouse and three other individuals. Robertson asks whether those three people, including at least two people who Maguire had existing business relationships, were “potential participants” in Waterhouse’s Smart.West development.
Yes, Maguire agrees, “or sources of advice”.
Robertson puts it to Maguire that he hoped “one of these individuals might be able to assist Ms Waterhouse making some money and you sharing some of those profits with whoever might be assisting”.
Maguire:
Ah, yes.
We’ve just taken a short break.
Before that, Robertson was pushing Maguire on what was driving him to make these deals while still in parliament. We’ve previously heard the former MP was in debt to the tune about about $1.5m. He tells Icac he had made up his mind to retire before the next election, and “would have retired regardless of my financial position”.
He wanted to be in a position to “engage in work once I retired”.
Robertson puts it to him that his reason for engaging with Waterhouse was an ambition to wipe off some of that debt before announcing his retirement - something we’ve heard previously during phone intercepts between he and Berejiklian.
Maguire:
Not entirely, but I’ll agree.
We’re hearing about those early conversations between Maguire and Louise Waterhouse. After he returned from a trip to the South Pacific he emailed Waterhouse to suggest a meeting to discuss “the other matter we discussed”.
That other matter, he says, was her Smart.West development in Badgerys Creek.
After some back and forth about why the Wagga Wagga MP would care about a property development in Western Sydney, Maguire says that Waterhouse “wanted to find some partners or businesses that might join with her” to get her development across the line.
Robertson puts it to Maguire that he hoped to find those investors and get paid a commission.
Maguire:
Certainly people who might invest.
Robertson pushes him further. He wanted to find investors specifically so that he could gain a commission or introductory fee “or other amount of money”.
Maguire:
Yes.
Robertson has been revisiting some evidence from yesterday, namely that Maguire, as the honorary chair of a Shenzen commerce group, took trips to the South Pacific in which, Icac alleges, he improperly presented himself as working on behalf of the government when in fact he was pursuing business interests.
Maguire admits he was a “door opener” for the Shenzen group, and was acting outside of his role as a public official.
We then hear about a meeting Maguire had on 5 April 2017 with Louise Waterhouse. Robertson puts it to Maguire that he was asking her “for her assistance in setting up meetings and things of that kind”.
Maguire says he wanted to brief Waterhouse about the Shenzen group.
Robertson then reads a snippet from an email Waterhouse sent to Maguire after the meeting in which she mentions their “confidential discussion” about an “exciting project” in Badgerys Creek.
Updated
We’ve moved on to Maguire’s relationship with the racing heir Louise Waterhouse. We’ve previously heard that Maguire hoped to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars assisting her in the rezoning of land her family owns near the site of the proposed western Sydney airport.
Robertson:
Do you agree that you provided assistance to Ms Louise Waterhouse in relation the to propose sale or development of land ... in Badgerys Creek?
Maguire:
Yes I agree.
Robertson asks Maguire how he met Waterhouse. He says it was “through the Tongan consulate”, where Waterhouse is honorary consul general.
Updated
'I'll give it to her all right' – Maguire tells property developer friend he'd deliver letter to Berejiklian
Robertson is taking Maguire through a series of favours Maguire did for the property developer Joe Alha.
The two were “great mates”, Maguire says, and had discussed the idea of working together when he left parliament. Robertson asks if that’s why Maguire worked so hard on Alha’s behalf arranging meetings. He puts it to Maguire that he was Alha’s “direct line to government”.
Maguire says he did not do it because he was hoping to seek employment with Alha.
We’re played a phone intercept in which Maguire is instructing an agitated Alha on how to deal with a development issue. He’s instructing him to “pour your heart out” in a letter to the planning minister, Anthony Roberts, and tells him to “CC the premier”, Gladys Berejiklian.
How do I get the email, Alha asks?
Maguire:
I’ll fix it. I’ll give it to her all right.
Maguire then says he can’t recall if he ever delivered the letter to the premier.
Before that we were played a phone intercept in which Alha tells Maguire he wants a meeting with the transport minister, Andrew Constance.
Alha:
I just want some clarity if they are moving the train station ... I want some fucking straight answers.
Maguire:
I’ll go and have a chat.
We’re told the meeting never went ahead.
Updated
Maguire assisted developers with view to making personal 'profits'
Daryl Maguire admits he sought meetings for property developers with ministers or their staff with at least the hope of making profit for himself.
Scott Robertson puts it to Maguire that he essentially sought “short cuts” for developers by making representations on their behalf to ministers.
Maguire says he has “assisted a number of developers”.
Robertson then goes further. He puts it to Maguire that he did this “in the hope that ultimately there might be some profits flowing to you”.
Maguire:
Not entirely.
Robertson:
It was at least a factor that weighed on your mind.
Maguire:
It could have been, yes.
Robertson:
Could have been or was?
Maguire:
Could have been.
Robertson:
Not just could have been, it was, do you agree?
Maguire:
Yes.
Updated
Back to that drop-in meeting that Daryl Maguire orchestrated between the developer Joe Alha and Gladys Berejiklian.
Scott Robertson wants to know whether there was any “discussion of matters in relation to planning in a general policy sense or in a site-specific sense”.
Maguire is insistent it was nothing more than “general niceties”.
He says it’s the only time he recalls taking a property developer for a drop-in meeting with the premier or a minister.
Updated
The fundraiser also featured the treasurer, Dominic Perrottet, as well as the premier.
Maguire tells Robertson he would have “perhaps” have charged about $1,000 for a ticket.
Updated
Robertson is asking Maguire about an invitation for fundraiser that he sent to Berejiklian on 28 June 2017. The invitation was apparently accepted and scheduled for 12 December 2017.
The invitation list included a number of people linked to Maguire, including the racing heir Louise Waterhouse and the chief executive of the developer Country Garden. But Maguire says neither of them attended.
Updated
Maguire says the drop-in meeting with Berejiklian would have lasted “two minutes”.
“I asked, ‘Can we pop in?’ Would have taken less than two minutes then we left,” he says.
Robertson wants to know how he got in.
Maguire:
I don’t recall if there was a personal assistant, a receptionist there, there may have been, I would have asked, I wouldn’t have just walked in ... I can’t recall exactly what was said.
He says Alha had already met Berejiklian. Asked by the assistant commissioner, Ruth McColl, why he was so insistent on meeting her again, Maguire says the developer “adores her”:
My recollection is we were there for probably less than two minutes, niceties were spoken, the premier knew Mr Alha from various functions and things that occurred.
Updated
Maguire arranged 'drop-in' meeting with Berejiklian for property developer
Robertson is pushing Maguire on the fact that Alha had previously requested a “site-specific” meeting with Berejiklian. The premier had refused the meeting.
He’s pushing the former MP on the idea that this “drop-in” meeting with Berejiklian had been the plan all along, and was a way to “skirt around ordinary processes”.
Maguire:
I wouldn’t put it that way but because of Mr [Frank] Vellar’s willingness to meet I thought that would suffice.
Robertson:
Mr Alha was quite insistent in the lead-up to the meeting ... he wanted [a meeting] not just with the minister for planning but the premier as well, is that right?
Maguire:
Yes.
Robertson:
When you were contemplating the meeting with Mr Alha you were contemplating ... a drop-in meeting with the premier?
Maguire:
It might have crossed my mind.
Updated
We begin by hearing evidence of a “drop-in” meeting between Maguire’s Sydney property developer friend Joe Alha and the premier, Gladys Berejiklian.
Maguire, we heard yesterday, had arranged a meeting between Alha and a staff member of the former planning minister Anthony Roberts.
We now hear that after that meeting, Alha and Maguire had “a glass or two of red wine”.
Robertson:
What then happened?
Maguire:
Joe wanted to meet the premier, [he said] can we go and see Gladys, can we go and see Gladys? Yes, we’d had a couple of drinks. We were on the 12th floor and the premier is the eighth so I said we’ll go and see, we’ll do a drop-in ... Joe became a little bit insistent that we drop in and see Glad.
Updated
Daryl Maguire is back in the stand. Counsel assisting the commission Scott Robertson begins by telling the commissioner Ruth McColl SC that he is unlikely to finish questioning Maguire today. So, it looks as though we’ll be back tomorrow.
Updated
While we wait for Maguire to appear in the stand, here’s my wrap of yesterday’s hearing. For five hours, counsel assisting Scott Robertson pushed and prodded Maguire over a series of business deals between 2012 and 2018. The former MP often gave short, perfunctory answers, which could amount to damaging admissions.
Updated
Good morning, and welcome to the Guardian’s live coverage of the Independent Commission Against Corruption hearings into the former Wagga Wagga MP Daryl Maguire.
Today we’ll see Maguire return for a second day in the witness box, and what he says could decide the political future of the New South Wales premier, Gladys Berejiklian.
Yesterday Maguire made a series of damaging admissions in the witness stand, including that he had sought to “monetise” his parliamentary office, and knew a cash-for-visa scheme he was part of while an MP involved lying to immigration officials. We expect that today his evidence will turn towards Berejiklian, after her shocking evidence earlier in the week that she had been in a secret “close personal relationship” with Maguire from about 2015.
The premier survived a no-confidence motion in the NSW parliament’s upper house by a single vote on Wednesday. She has refused to resign, insisting she has done nothing wrong, and retains the confidence of her colleagues. What Maguire says today may dictate how long that confidence lasts.
The hearing will begin at 10am.
Updated
