Summary
And with that the hearing comes to a close and ends this morning’s immigration meetings in DC, a summary of which below.
- Homeland Security secretary Jeh Johnson defended President Obama’s executive orders granting relief to undocumented immigrants, saying it would bring people “out of the shadows”.
- Elsewhere in the House, Speaker John Boehner said “various options” remain on the table to counter the orders, such as limiting funding for DHS, and refused to say whether a government shutdown is a possibility.
- The secretary pleaded for cooperation with Congress, saying DHS needs some $750m for facilities, surveillance equipment and other needs. He asked for Congress to act and insisted that DHS clearly differentiates between newly arrived immigrants and people residing in the US for years.
- Members of Congress grilled Johnson on logistics, expressing special concern over the release of “criminal aliens” and instances of fraud in the application process.
- Johnson announced task forces to coordinate the eastern and western regions of the southern border, saying “we are too stovepiped in our approach.”
- Republicans like Michael McCaul and Patrick Meehan accused Obama and Johnson of having “bypassed” Congress and the American people, saying that the actions would spark a new wave of illegal immigration and that DHS has proven itself unable to handle border security.
- Democrats backed Johnson, with Ron Barber of Arizona saying “we have failed on our side of the bargain”, and also expressed concern about how families will be treated at detention centers.
Republican Patrick Meehan of Pennsylvania is attacking Johnson for what he sees as gross overreach by the president.
Meehan argues that presidents’ executive action must be limited by how Congress “articulates its intent”, and that Johnson is guilty of sophistry. He cuts off just about every answer of the secretary, who tries to stress that eligible immigrants “are already here” and have been for several years.
The representative from Pennsylvania turns red with anger: “Under congressional intent they are not lawfully here, and the president has created a category out of whole cloth.”
Elsewhere in the House, Speaker John Boehner has emerged from a meeting with Republican leaders with a few concrete proposals for immigration action. My colleague Dan Roberts reports from Washington:
“We have limited options for dealing with it directly,” he told reporters.
“Various options” remain on the table, insisted Boehner, a formulation thought to include passing a token bill registering House disapproval.
Boehner is believed to have told rank and file members of the House GOP caucus that defunding the government in retaliation is not a realistic option.
Instead, Republicans are planning to pass legislation that would continue to fund most government activities for another year, but may grant limited funding for the Department for Homeland Security – which manages immigration – until early next year only.
But Boehner also refused to answer questions about whether a government shutdown was now “off the table”, leaving open the outside possibility of more aggressive responses for the time being.
Updated
King attacks the president by way of a proxy, Johnson:
“If the president felt there was a consensus among the American people, the this should’ve been part in the campaign debate. The campaign is over, Republicans win both houses, then the president takes this action.
He says Obama acted “in bad faith” with Congress and the American people: “Why didn’t the president set a deadline, six months … force Republicans to deal with him?”
Johnson says “we did do that, we did exactly that. We said we would do this in the spring and see over the summer whether Congress decided to act. … We’ve done a lot of waiting, we’ve waited for several years.”
King: “If he felt that strongly about it he should’ve acted before the election.”
Peter King, a voluble Republican from New York, starts off by praising Johnson’s professionalism.
Johnson grins, “It goes all downhill from here, huh?”
Mark Sanford of South Carolina asks about people trying to immigrate through legal channels.
“I think one of the things that a lot of people struggle with on the notion of the president’s executive and unilateral action is that it will put a lot of people on a second class bus. Is it fair for the people who’ve been waiting in line?”
Johnson: “Through executive action we cannot grant citizenship, we cannot put people in the head of the line.”
Sanford: “But it’s de facto citizenship in that they can live here, work here, raise families here.”
Johnson starts to lose some patience: “In fact they already are.”
Sanford: “They are, but they now have legal claim to our entitlement system. … How do you say to that struggling family in Mississippi … What do you say to that family that your retirement system, your healthcare system is less financially solvent?”
Johnson: “The people we’re talking about are already here, they’ve been here for years, they’re integrated members of society.”
Curtis Clawson of Florida says he’s not going to “harangue” Johnson, and asks about taxpayers’ “bang for the buck”.
“When we ask for operational data, to know what the bang for the buck is for the tax member. If I was a board member and you and I were back in our previous lives, I would say … when I don’t know what the return on investment is … other than really macro data – can you shed any light on that?”
Johnson: “I will say that I remain committed to more transparency.”
The secretary says he wants to work with Congress to “develop metrics” to evaluate just how well border security is working.
Johnson: “There’s a misapprehension that things are as worse as they’ve ever bed. In fact, apprehension of illegal immigrants are as low as they’ve ever been. In large part because of the investment made by this Congress … but we have seen a return on investment.”
Barletta: “So adding more than five million workers will make it easier?”
Johnson: “The potential class is up to four million, not all will apply. And this will allow [migrants] to get on the books, to pay taxes, and the assessment is that will not impinge American jobs.”
Barletta: “You don’t think an employer will think, ‘do I keep an American worker and provide health insurance or pay a $3,000 fine, or do I get rid of the American and hire an undocumented worker?’”
Johnson: “I don’t think I see it that way.”
Lou Barletta, Republican of Pennsylvania, asks how an influx of documented workers will affect American jobs.
Johnson: “Congressman, the fact is, as I’m sure you know, that we have lots of undocumented in this country working off the books. And if that’s not apparent I suggest you spend some time in a restaurant in the Washington DC area and see for yourself.”
Barletta: “How does that make it easier for the American worker? Here we go again talking about the illegal immigrant! Why don’t we talk about the American worker and what this will do to them, and not what this will do for the illegal immigrant!”
Johnson: “Well the economy is getting better, and the question of US jobs is a separate issue.”
Johnson uses a small window window to plead for Congress to give him a chance: “I have in my private law practice negotiated the most complex civil settlement on Wall Street. I believe if we could strip away the emotion and the politics on this issue, and you brought me the right members … I could negotiate a settlement. It should not be that difficult.”
Chaffetz starts talking about four detainees who have ties to the Kurdish Workers Party, which the representative says is designated by the State Department as a terrorist organization. Chaffetz tries to use them as a case study for DHS and Obama administration mismanagement.
Johnson makes clear that “They were released by a judge. That was not my decision. … They are in deportation proceedings, an immigration judge released two of the four and they fled to Canada. My intent is that they be deported, but two are in Canada seeking asylum”
Chaffetz uses the spotlight to say that when Democrats controlled Congress they did nothing to pass immigration reform: “They brought Stephen Colbert on to testify, that’s how bad it was!”
Remarks finally over, chairman McCaul reminds the committee that the secretary’s time is limited.
Representative Jason Chaffetz, Republican from Utah, is harping on the president’s legal authority. He plays a short audio clip of Obama saying he “changed the law”
Johnson simply says again that the administration acted “within the law”. As for the clip of Obama: “I’ve been a lawyer for 30 years, somebody plays me an 8-word excerpt and I’m gonna be suspicious.”
Representative Beto O’Rourke, Democrat from Texas’ 16th district, says he’s “concerned about statements the president’s made … about stepping up border security.”
O’Rourke says he’s spent some time at the Arteja family detention center that has become “a deportation machine” and that he wants to make sure “in our effort to satisfy security concerns we don’t shorten due process”.
“We talk about stepping up border enforcement … I’d like to know what that means for my community, is that simply repositioning forces, moving border patrol up to the line of the border, or are you asking for more agents, more walls, more of these militarization measures, which I think shows us a problem of diminishing returns right now. At what point do we have enough security on the border?”
Johnson says the Arteja center is being closed “in lieu of the larger Dilly center”. (He earlier highlighted Dilly as an apparently more humane and better equipped detention center for families and young children.)
On border security, “it is correct that apprehensions are way down from 15 years ago and resoruces are way up, but we can do way better. I’m not going to sit here and declare that we have a secure border … We’ve made great strides but there is more to do.”
“Our southern border campaign plan is not simply repositioning assets. It’s a more strategic … approach … in a more coordinated way, region by region, so there is one person in the south-west who is responsible for bringing to bear the resources of border security in Arizona, New Mexico and Texas.”
Jeff Duncan of South Carolina, a Republican who says it’s “no surprise” that he opposes the president, asks Johnson “why aren’t we patriating these people” who’ve entered the US illegally in 2014.
Johnson: “That’s something that requires a willing partner on the other end, and I’ve had conversations with the State Department about [working with other countries].”
Duncan: “At the end of the year 2014 how many illegal criminal aliens will be released?”
Johnson says it will likely be around 30,000 people, trying hard to stress that the number is less than 2013’s estimated 36,000 people, and that he’s working to lower the numbers.
Duncan goes further with his questions about illegal migrants with a criminal record, especially on visa overstays: “We’re not chasing a footprint in the desert. We know who they are, they came here on a visa, that’s low hanging fruit for enforcement. How many visa overstays are granted [protection] on the president’s action?”
Johnson: “Off-hand I don’t know … Congressman, I will say I want to see Congress pass a bill…”
Duncan: “I think Congress can pass a bill, but the American people have to regain trust with this administration!” He slaps the stand: “I cede my time!”
Representative Ron Barber, Democrat from Arizona, says that Congress has failed to do it’s duty on immigration: “I believe it should be done in concert with Congress but we have failed on our side of the bargain.”
Johnson says the executive action primarily helps those “who’ve not committed any crimes and who’ve [integrated with the community].”
“This is the opportunity to be accountable. That is not citizenship and that is not [a pathway to citizenship]. You are deemed lawfully present in the country for a period of time.”
Representative Candice Miller, Republican from Michigan, asks about how DHS plans to do a case-by-case review of some four million undocumented immigrants estimated eligible for relief.
Johnson: “Well we have an implementation period of more than six months. … We determined we needed six months to get it right. From the Daca experience we know that [with the right application] fee it will pay for itself.”
“With regard to the number four million, 4.1 million is the estimated potential class of those who will be eligible. as the Daca experience shows, the estimated potential class of Daca kids is over a million, but the actual number of those who are enrolled is six or 700,000.”
Keating asks what does DHS believe it needs on the ground, and what it’s learned from border law enforcement.
Johnson: “They almost always tell me more vehicles, more surveillance, more technology.”
“We’re moving in the direction of a risk based strategy in homeland security, border security … because we have high technology to surveil … that includes aerial surveillance and mobile surveillance on the ground. We’ve shown considerable investments in the past 15 years but I’m convinced we can [do more].”
Keating: “Can you be clear about your fiscal resources … are you capable of sending everyone back? If we’re really serious about this how much does your agency need to do what the members of this committee are asking you to do?”
Johnson makes another push for a vote on the budget he’s requested Congress consider.
Updated
Democrat Bill Keating asks whether this is amnesty or “functionally amnesty”.
Johnson gives an emphatic “No”.
Keating asks whether Johnson considers this in any way “a permanent solution”.
Johnson: “No. … [But I’ll repeat] since I’ve been in office we’ve not had a willing partner in the House of Representatives but I continue to want to work with this committee, members of the House, members of Congress. … We were forced to do this.”
Representative Mike Rogers, Republican of Alabama, takes an uncompromising line against Johnson – and immigration at large.
“I disagree with you. The statute is very clear that these illegals in this country are to be removed once they’re located.”
Rogers: “How do you get them to prove … that they’ve been living here for the past seven years?”
Rogers puts forward a scenario in which an applicant presents electricity bills for years, under someone else’s name who the applicant says they rented from – reducing the whole problem to a question of trust and secondary sources.
Johnson: “Good question. The onus will be on the applicant to provide evidence that they’ve been in this country for the five year period. … I do not believe it will be as simple as ‘take my word for it.’”
He says CIS will have to decide what exactly applicants must provide to prove their residency.
Rogers isn’t having it: “This is an area that will be wrought with fraud. I think it will be impossible for you to determine who qualifies under this very broad and illegal executive order.”
Sheila Jackson, Democrat from Texas, wants to get a few statements on the record: “Does not confer immigration status or a pathway to citizenship, is that correct?”
Johnson: “Yes”
Jackson talks a bit about the precedents made by other presidents, saying she believes President Reagan, for instance, “saw a humanitarian crisis and decided to act”.
She also asks about the new detention center in Dilly, Texas, and what exactly will change in the Daca relief program.
“The current Daca program is for those who’ve been here since June 2007, which is almost, over seven years. You have to have been here over seven years, come here at age 16 … We removed the birthday limitation, and we’ve [changed] the eligibility preiods from three years to two years.”
He says he sent his own team to make sure the new Dilly detention center can support families.
Smith accuses Johnson of “releasing criminal aliens and you are releasing people who should be sent home.”
“Do you want to estimate how many people are being released who are criminal aliens?”
Johnson tries to describe how ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) is working to pursue criminals who’ve crossed the border.
Smith: “That’s nice but that’s not answering my question.”
Representative Lamar Smith, Republican of Texas, goes after Johnson for a number of the people who’ve entered the US illegally in 2014.
He disregards much of Johnson’s response about “metrics”, though he gets the secretary to admit that he too wants to see the figure come down dramatically.
Smith: “I don’t we have the metrics we need to determine whether the border is secure or not.”
Thompson moves on to asking how DHS will actually make the border more secure, and Johnson mildlycriticizes US policy a little: “We are in my opinion too stovepiped in our approach.”
“We need to bring a more comprehensive, strategic approach. So what we’re doing is creating two regional task forces: joint task force west, joint task force east. I expect to announce the leaders of those two task forces soon.”
Thompson: “If Congress does not give you the money, can you continue to maintain the level of support to address that issue if Congress continues to refuse to give you the money necessary to do that job?”
Johnson: “It will be very difficult. We have as part of our … budget request a request for an additional 750m dollars. Most of that will go to detention and resources, and we want to maintain that and add to it.”
“We need to pay for these things, and i know that every member of this committee wants to enhance border security, and hope that Congress will [hear] my request.”
Updated
McCaul cedes the microphone to Bennie Thompson, Democrat from Mississippi. He also asks about Obama’s legal authority.
Johnson starts off a little wry, saying that while developing these actions he would ask himself: “Could I defend that action before a committee of Congress if I’m called to do so?”
“I am fully confident that we have the legal authority … specifically with deferred actions, which presidents have performed for decades. So I am fully comfortable the deferred actions are a legal authority acceptable to use from time to time, and we have done so.”
McCaul now moves on to say that a new “surge in illegal immigration” is on its way, encouraged by the perception of amnesty.
“It’s coming. In my opinion there’s no question about it.”
He then says that false applications and fraud threaten the immigration systems in place and enacted by the president: “What are you going to do [to prevent people] from people fraudulently entering the country?”
Johnson: “I too am concerned about that. Fraudulent applications … are a priority of mine.”
Updated
McCaul says he thinks it’s a political decision rather than a policy decision, and presses Johnson about the timing of the president’s statements and actions on immigrations.
Johnson responds by saying that while he and DHS have been working on these actions for months, talking with lawyers and members of Congress, the administration has repeatedly been asked to delay any action. He says that one election, then another, then another kept pushing back any action.
McCaul asks what legal authority the president has, saying that Obama has said “more than 20 times that he does not have the legal authority” to make unilateral immigration reform.
Johnson dodges: “I know from 30 years as a lawyer that when someone paraphrases remarks that I want to see the full Q&A.”
The secretary says there’s legal backing for the president: “What I know is we’ve spent months developing these reforms … in very close consultation with lawyers. There are things they told us that we did not have the legal authority to do … and there are things they told us, very clearly, that there are things we do have the legal authority.”
Secretary Johnson gives his opening statement:
“Let me begin by saying in the same vein in the chairman’s remarks, we won’t always agree, we have not always agreed, but I do appreciate the friendship and collegiality that we enjoy between members of this committee and me and my staff.”
“On November 20 the president announced a series of executive actions to begin to fix our immigration action. The president views these actions as the first step to reform, and continues to count on Congress.”
He outlines the actions, tailoring the highlights to the largely Republican committee: “to promote border security for the future and to send a strong message that our borders are not open to illegal immigration … those that came here illegally after January 1 2014, regardless of where they were apprehended, [will not be exempt from deportation].”
He alludes to prosecutorial discretion, noting the policy to prioritize the removal of “those convicted of crimes, members of gangs and national security threats”.
He says that the actions help those people who’ve been here for five years and without a criminal record to “come out of the shadows … pay taxes and help our economy”.
“This is simple common sense. … President Obama continues to count on Congress for … comprehensive reform.”
Updated
Thompson says he’s looking forward to hearing more about what Johnson and DHS will do to prevent the spread of misinformation to people in Central America who may want to attempt the crossing into the US.
He also pushes for Congress to act on farm workers without immigration papers, saying that although they were omitted by the president’s actions they are too important to ignore.
Representative Bennie Thompson, of Mississippi, is now speaking, rounding up the Democrats’ view of Obama’s immigration actions.
“Time and again the Republican party’s leadership has been unwilling to fix our immigration [system]. … The president acted in a measured way that is likely to enhance both our security and our economy.”
He’s summarizing some of the effects of the executive action, including how immigrants without a criminal record can apply for a legal work permit, and how the age limit has been removed from the Daca program. (You can read about the actions more here.)
McCaul continues to fire opening volleys: “Amnesty perpetuates a cycle of illegal entry into our country.”
“This was true in the 1980s and this is true of this administration’s abuse of prosecutorial discretion, the power when to prosecute and when not to. They’ve taken a sweeping approach to prosecutorial discretion that makes a mockery of the law.”
He says we can expect many more thousands of children to come to the US even just because of “the perception of amnesty … we essentially tell citizens of other countries, ‘if you come here you can stay, don’t worry, we won’t deport you.’”
“We will see a wave of illegal immigration because of the president’s actions.”
He says it’s a “reckless disregard of America’s security” and that the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) is “woefully unprepared” to handle another wave of immigrants.
McCaul begins, saying “we’re here to discuss the grave consequences of the administration’s recent actions to bypass Congress.”
He says immigration is “an emotional and divisive issue, there’s no doubt about that. Let me be clear, our immnigration system is clear and we need to fix it.”
“America has always stood clear as a beacon of hope for millions who are seeking a better or life. But regardless of where you stand on this issue there’s a right way to do this and a wrong way. Unfortunately the president has chosen to do this the wrong way.”
“The president risks breaking something much for fundamental, our democratic process. The people, not just one man, should be our ultimate decision makers in our country’s political actions.”
Johnson has arrived just a few minutes late, facing off with McCaul and the committee, and the hearing is ready to begin.
Today’s primary point of contention will be Obama’s executive action on immigration – summarized conveniently here by my colleague Nicky Woolf:
- Expand the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program (Daca), a 2012 program which has provided relief from deportation to around 580,000 people brought into the US as children by removing the age cap on eligibility, currently set at 31.
- Relief will also be extended to those who came to the US illegally, but are the parents of US citizens and green-card holders.
- Strengthen border patrols, with three new cross-agency task forces — southern maritime, southern land border and investigative.
- Revise its priorities to focus more on threats to national security, including gang members and convicted felons. Illegal immigrants who are convicted of “significant or multiple misdemeanors” will be second-tier priorities, and those who have disobeyed an order of removal after January 1, 2014 will be third-tier.
- End the controversial “secure communities” program, which partnered with state and local law enforcement as well as a database of biometrics to find illegal immigrants to deport.
- Reforming the “Optional Professional Training” period for foreign students.Students can now apply for 12 additional months’ visa, or 29 months in science and technology field. The executive announcement does not extend the program, but mandates that it be “evaluated, strengthened, and improved,” and expand the number of degree programs eligible.
You can read the full piece here.
Republicans on the committee will try to grill Secretary Johnson on what they say is a woefully deficient policy for a porous border – even though Johnson has overseen record deportations under the Obama administration in the past few years.
The committee’s chair, Texas’ Mike McCaul, released in October a “blueprint” for border security along the Mexican border, laying out over 41 pages precisely what he thinks more than 10 border regions need to be made inviolable. He advocates surveillance of the region akin to that used in Afghanistan and Iraq and strict penalties for anyone who crosses it illegally.
Johnson, the hearing’s sole witness, has been the Homeland Security secretary since 2013, and responded to last summer’s wave of some 70,000 child migrants by saying he had a clear message for families coming north: “You will be sent home.” The department has been criticized for its detention centers and enforcement methods. Johnson also recently withdrew his name from consideration to replace secretary of defense Chuck Hagel.
Updated
Good morning and welcome to our liveblog coverage of the US homeland security secretary’s testimony to the House of Representatives.
This is Jeh Johnson’s first congressional appearance since Barack Obama announced sweeping and controversial executive action on immigration, which Republican members of Congress have vowed to undo. The executive action granted protection from deportation for some undocumented migrants whose children are legal US citizens, and also allowed legal work permits for several million migrants.
The hearing, officially called Open Borders: The Impact of Presidential Amnesty on Border Security, is being chaired by Mike McCaul, a Texas Republican and a staunch opponent of Obama’s policy.
