Chris Hipkins says many in the health system are exhausted and need a break, but he's not looking for a holiday away any time soon. The Covid Response Minister talks to political editor Jo Moir about the rewards, challenges, and unpredictable future ahead.
For Chris Hipkins it comes with the territory that family time gets interrupted by anti-vaxxers accosting him.
“You wouldn’t do this job if you’re one of those people who likes to be showered in praise all the time.’’
The Covid-19 Response Minister goes by Chippy to most in-and-around Parliament – the nickname suits his cheerful and all-round chipper demeanour.
He's the senior minister who enjoys a Coke and a sausage roll and loves to start 1pm Covid press conferences with the "good news first''.
But in an interview with Newsroom on Monday night before Delta disaster had struck, Hipkins described each day in the job being more complicated than the last.
That particular comment couldn't have rung truer by 2pm on Tuesday when the Delta variant was found in the community and New Zealanders were being told to go home and hunker down.
Cases are expected to continue to grow over coming days as health officials try to find the New South Wales link to the original positive case – a 58-year-old man from Devonport on the North Shore of Auckland.
It was a series of errors during the country's first level four lockdown that landed Hipkins this job in the first place.
Ahead of last year’s election he took on the health portfolio, which included the Covid-19 response at the time, after David Clark stood down from the job in the face of public pressure.
In November when Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced her new Cabinet she peeled Covid-19 out of Health. She gave health to senior Minister Andrew Little, but kept Hipkins in charge of the pandemic response.
The separation meant he could keep his beloved education portfolio and stay on as Leader of the House – a pointy-headed position but one he’s passionate about.
Hipkins describes the Covid part of his job as being about public service.
“It is quite unpleasant a lot of days, probably more days than not there are some pretty unpleasant aspects to it.
“Whether it’s being accosted by anti-vaxxers while spending time with my family or dealing with my staff who are upset because people are really horrible to them on the phone. It’s a tough gig,’’ he admits.
That said, it’s also a portfolio “that with challenge comes opportunity’’.
“Despite all the criticism I still think there’s a hell of a lot to be proud of in the way New Zealand has responded to Covid-19.’’
Hipkins says the country’s managed isolation and quarantine facilities have been hugely successful, bar a couple of notable exceptions.
The same goes for the vaccination rollout, which Hipkins says despite starting later than anticipated, for the most part has been “incredibly smooth’’.
“There will always be some issues, and Taranaki is clearly one of them’’.
That’s an unprompted reference to the region’s district health board being unambitious with its targets and subsequent rollout, and a little bit of a nod to Newsroom's political editor who has a habit of asking Hipkins about (home region) Taranaki every week.
“There’s a lot to be proud of so I’m not going to say I don’t enjoy the job, because I do. Having said that there are some days I’d prefer not to be doing it,’’ he says.
The changing face of Covid-19
Nothing about the virus is simple because it never stays the same.
That's clearer than ever with Delta now in the community and case numbers climbing as the country hunkers down to try and stop the spread.
“When you are definitive about things you then find yourself having to backtrack on them." – Chris Hipkins
Hipkins says if Covid-19 had stayed the same every single day for the last 18 months then New Zealand, and indeed the world, would be pretty good at dealing with it by now.
He uses the examples of transmission in MIQ early on where a wheelie bin lid and lift button were identified as being to blame.
Knowing what scientists know now it’s clear in both cases that airborne droplets would have been to blame for transmission.
Newsroom asked Hipkins if it blows his mind how much time was spent talking about the bin lid and lift button and what that says about New Zealand.
“On one level it blows my mind and on another it frustrates the heck out of me, because some of the people who were the subject of criticism (I accept as minister and as a government we will receive criticism) but who I do feel for is the people who are not political who are flogging their guts out and do feel those criticisms personal to them.
“Words like shambles and incompetence get tossed around all the time and I look back on that now and that was just totally unfair to those people doing that work, as they were doing a job under the risk circumstances we knew at that time, but that has changed,’’ he says.
Because of the changing pace of Covid, Hipkins says one of the things he has learnt to do is to never be too definitive about things.
“When you are definitive about things you then find yourself having to backtrack on them.
“And unfortunately, that’s where politics comes in, because the more equivocal you are about something, people think you’re trying to hide something. The reality is I’m just trying to be honest,’’ he says.
New Zealanders both here and abroad like to send letters and Hipkins says his office gets a lot and he reads every single one.
“I have huge sympathy for people who find themselves in another country and struggling to come home.
“Having said that, there are always some competing facts that people don’t necessarily appreciate when they’re in that position,’’ he says.
Earlier this year there were unoccupied rooms in MIQ and Hipkins was vocal that it was a good time to come home.
While he accepts not everyone can drop everything and come home right in that moment, he says it’s not fair for people to say they couldn’t get rooms.
“They could have if they wanted to.’’
He acknowledges capacity at MIQ is a “really difficult situation’’ and his own office staff are the ones dealing with some “not very nice people’’ writing and calling with complaints.
What the future holds
Last Thursday, Hipkins with the Prime Minister and her Covid advisory group announced how New Zealand might look to reconnect with the world next year.
There were two parts to the announcement. The first is a small pilot trial with businesses where employees can go away on trips and return to self-isolation instead of MIQ.
The second is putting countries into low, medium, and high-risk categories and allowing travellers from low-risk countries who are vaccinated to arrive in New Zealand without needing to do MIQ.
New Zealand is still undergoing its vaccination rollout and both health experts and the Government have opted against setting a target that needs to be met before the borders are re-opened. That has received some criticism from the Opposition and commentators.
Hipkins told Newsroom it has nothing to do with not wanting to set a target that the Government might fail to reach.
“If people don’t come forward for vaccination there’s a limit to how much the Government can do there. We can ensure everyone can get one, but if people choose not to get one I don’t think that’s necessarily a Government failure,’’ he says.
“What we’ve said is everybody in New Zealand will have a reasonable opportunity to get vaccinated to reduce the risk of Covid-19 getting through the border, but we can’t wait for everyone.’’
In terms of the pilot for self-isolation, Hipkins says it’s designed to keep the risk as low as possible.
Some sort of tracking device will be used, which could be an ankle or wrist bracelet or simply calling a person’s phone at random to make sure they’re where they’re supposed to be.
Hipkins says he’s not ruling anything in or out and while he accepts it’s a high-risk model that relies on people not breaking the rules, he’s confident those given the opportunity won’t abuse that trust.
As for the trans-Tasman bubble, Hipkins says he’s hopeful Australia will return to being a low-risk country but with Delta in multiple states it’s looking increasingly unlikely the border will reopen at the end of September.
Vaccinated travel is set to start in the first quarter of next year and until Australia is deemed low-risk it wouldn’t even fit the criteria for travellers to enter without first doing managed isolation.
While Hipkins says he appreciates there’s a close relationship between Australians and Kiwis, “geography is not the proxy here’’.
“The border restrictions overall have a big impact on people and I would never underestimate the impact that it has on families in particular,’’ he says.
And while there is an extra close connection with Australia and the Pacific, Hipkins says New Zealand is a very “international community’’ and there are families separated in all parts of the world, not just across the ditch.
Another thing the minister doesn’t underestimate is “Covid fatigue’’.
“Every day it gets more difficult,’’ he says.
The health system and every single part of the Covid response is “very stressed and under pressure’’ and whenever a new testing requirement is introduced or a change is made the same group of people get put under further strain.
“This is a system working under extreme pressure and people are worn out.’’
“I’ve still got places on my list that I’d love to go visit that I’ve never been to, but I think it’s a wee while away before people are travelling just for pleasure.’’ – Chris Hipkins
Some would probably just like a holiday, a break from the grind.
Newsroom asked Hipkins where in the world he would go if he could get on a plane tomorrow and take-off.
It didn’t elicit a typical response like the Greek Islands or Bali; instead Hipkins admitted, “I’d love to stay at home for a little bit’’.
He has friends around the world who he hasn’t seen in a long time and his wife’s family lives in the United Kingdom, but Hipkins is realistic, even when being asked to dream.
“I’ve still got places on my list that I’d love to go visit that I’ve never been to, but I think it’s a wee while away before people are travelling just for pleasure.’’
Given that a trip to anywhere other than the supermarket is currently off the cards, Hipkins is probably right not to dream too big just yet.
