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The Guardian - UK
The Guardian - UK
Politics
Andrew Sparrow

Labour and Tory leaders interviewed by Jeremy Paxman - as it happened

May v Corbyn: Brexit, Trident, NHS and ‘dementia tax’

This live blog has now wrapped up. For today’s reaction to the interview, continue to today’s blog:

Corbyn and May teams both claim victory in Paxman showdown – live updates

May v Corbyn - Summary and analysis

By now it is clear that this “debate” (like most TV election events of this kind) won’t really have changed very much in the campaign. Generally it is being seen as a bit of a draw. (See 10.43pm.) And it probably did not even contain a memorable moment that people will be talking about for months or years to come because it was particularly revealing. If there has been one so far this election, it may be Theresa May’s “nothing has changed” press conference near-meltdown (although, if May does win a decent majority, that may well be forgotten by the end of the summer).

Yet the May v Corbyn showdown did illustrate how the campaign is evolving. At the start of the campaign, some of Jeremy Corbyn’s critics thought he would be so awful that the Labour campaign would collapse. Well, they have been comprehensively proved wrong, and this evening he looked relaxed and confident. His actions and pronouncements from the 1980s continue to haunt him, but, as the BBC’s Nick Robinson suggests (see 10.43pm), it is better to have the toughest questions relating to what you said in the past than what you are saying now.

And May seems to have changed a bit, too. When she called the election, her campaign seemed to revolve entirely around offering “strong and stable” leadership. The social care U-turn has torn the legs off that strategy, and tonight she barely, if at all, used the phrase. She also chose not to deploy some of the implausible lines about Corbyn she has used previously (like the false claim that he would raise income tax to 25p in the pound). Instead, we got a more humble and grounded PM, who sounded evasive on social care and winter fuel payments, but robust on Brexit, which many people will like.

Here are the main points.

  • Jeremy Corbyn refused to confirm that he would be willing to order a drone strike against a terrorist overseas plotting to attack the UK. When it was put to him that he might have to take a decision in 20 minutes, Corbyn replied:

I would want know the circumstances. You can’t answer a hypothetical question without the evidence. It is a completely hypothetical question.

Later in the “spin room” Andrew Gwynne, Labour’s election coordinator, said Corbyn would be willing to order such a strike. Gwynne said:

I actually quite like the idea that we would have a prime minister that wouldn’t go gung-ho into making a decision but would actually sit down and listen to the security experts as to what precisely they think are the risks, are the benefits and are the challenges and make an informed decision on that.

Now of course, any future Labour prime minister, if they are presented with clear evidence that they can remove a threat to the United Kingdom, would make that decision based on that information and I have every confidence that Jeremy Corbyn as our prime minister would make that decision.

  • Corbyn has rejected suggestions he would abolish the British monarchy, saying: “It’s not on anybody’s agenda, it’s certainly not on my agenda.” When Jeremy Paxman asked why there was nothing in the Labour manifesto about abolishing the monarchy, when Corbyn was known to favour the idea personally, Corbyn replied:

Look, there’s nothing in there as we’re not going to do it.

Corbyn said he accepted that the public wanted to keep the royal family.

I believe in a democracy and we live in a democracy. We have a titular head of state as the monarch but without political power.

  • Corbyn said some of the political ideas he has supported are not in the Labour manifesto because he is not “a dictator”. When asked why the manifesto did not include nationalising the banks, a proposal he has backed in the past, he said it reflected the party’s views, not just his.

I’m not a dictator who writes things to tell people what to do.

  • He said that Labour would end the benefits freeze. Asked about benefits, he said “of course” they would be uprated. The Lib Dems are claiming that this amounts to a £3bn spending commitment. But Corbyn was not specific about by how much benefits would be uprated. The Labour manifesto includes a commitment to spend £2bn extra a year on benefits, which would allow for some increase, but which would not be enough to full reverse the impact of the Tory benefits freeze.
  • Theresa May was heckled at one point when she tried to defend Tory plans for school funding. Asked about about protecting schools funding in real terms per pupil, she said:

Nobody can guarantee the real terms per pupil funding increase. In the Labour party’s manifesto we know the figures don’t add up.

But someone in the audience said Labour’s plans were costed, and someone shouted “You’ve clearly failed.”

  • Corbyn defended a comment he made during the Falklands war about how British soldiers were dying because of a “Tory plot”. He said he did not believe it had been a “plot” but that then prime minister Margaret Thatcher had been exploiting the situation.

It didn’t want any young men - British or Argentinian or anybody else - to die in that war. I also think there should have been an opportunity to prevent that war happening by the UN. Margaret Thatcher made a great deal of that issue at the time. I felt that she was exploiting the situation.

  • Corbyn refused to say that renewing Trident would be “morally right”.
  • May confirmed that she would prefer to walk away from the Brexit talks with no deal than to accept a bad deal.

I think you have to. In negotiations you have to recognise that you’re not in there to get a deal at any price.

  • Corbyn said he saw himself as a listening politician. Asked about his leadership style, he said:

You should never be so high and mighty you can’t listen to somebody else and learn something from them. Leadership is as much about using this [gesturing to his ear] as using this (pointing to his mouth].

  • May dismissed claims that she would be a pushover in the Brexit talks. When Paxman listed some of her U-turns and put it to her that Brussels would see her as “a blowhard who collapses at the first sign of gunfire”, she replied:

I think, Jeremy, you will find that what the people in Brussels look at is the record I had of negotiating with them in Brussels and delivering for this country on a number of issues on justice and home affairs which people said we were never going to get, and I got those negotiations.

  • Corbyn defended his decision to describe the killing of Osama bin Laden as a tragedy. He said he used the term because bin Laden should have been taken alive.

I think he should have been arrested and he should have been put on trial. And he could have been.

That’s all from me for tonight.

Thanks for the comments.

Updated

Here is our story about the May v Corbyn “debate”.

Here is the Press Association’s selection of high and low points for Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May.

Jeremy Corbyn

High: Paxman asked why there was nothing in the Labour manifesto about abolishing the monarchy. Corbyn known for his republican beliefs, replied: “Look, there’s nothing in there as we’re not going to do it.”

Low: The Labour leader was challenged by an audience member who claimed Corbyn had “openly supported the IRA in the past” by attending a commemoration for eight IRA members killed by the SAS in Loughgall. When pressed on the issue, Corbyn said: “The contribution I made to that meeting was to call for a peace and dialogue process in Northern Ireland. It’s only by dialogue and process we brought about peace in Northern Ireland and I think that’s a good thing. “

Theresa May

High: May was repeatedly questioned by Paxman on whether she would be prepared to walk away from Brexit negotitions. The Tory leader drew cheers from some in the audience when she persisted with her response of: “No deal is better than a bad deal.”

Low: The prime minister’s low point came when audience members questioned her about funding for services.

A serving policeman told her the cuts she had made as home secretary had been “devastating”, while a Devon midwife said she had seen staff “at their wits’ end” because of “chronic under-funding”.

Paxman’s standout moment came after he had grilled May about U-turns on social care in the manifesto and proposed hikes in national insurance for the self-employed in the budget.

The TV inquisitor said: “What one’s bound to say is that if I was sitting in Brussels and I was looking at you as the person I had to negotiate with, I’d think ‘she’s a blowhard who collapses at the first sign of gunfire’.”

Updated

Here are some blogs about May v Corbyn that are worth reading.

The danger with our embrace of the televised election debate is that we have all come to expect too much from them. Theresa May was reportedly keen to stay clear of any head-to-head confrontation with Jeremy Corbyn.

He, presumably looking for a gamechanger, was enthusiastic to look her in the face. But John F Kennedy versus a fatally sweaty Richard Nixon was more than 50 years ago. Pendulum swings on that scale have barely occurred since.

Live General election: Paxman interviews May and Corbyn - politics liveRolling coverage of interviews with Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn by Jeremy Paxman and a studio audience on the Sky/Channel 4 News Battle for No 10 election programmeRead more

The fact is that both Corbyn and May probably emerged from their grilling by a studio audience, allied to the verbal flamethrowing of Jeremy Paxman, reasonably satisfied.

Theresa May may have opposed Brexit, but now she needs it to save her

It’s not a good sign for the sitting Prime Minister that the audience laughed at many of her statements. She had only one reliable set of applause lines: her commitment to getting the best Brexit deal.

In a supreme irony, the woman who opposed a Leave vote now needs the election to be a referendum re-run if she is to secure the big majority she dreams of.

Corbyn had a much better 45 minutes than she did, but she was the one the audience would send in to Brussels to negotiate with our European partners.

There might have been no clear winner tonight but, if the more upmarket, liberal end of my Twitter feed is anything to go by, there was a loser. Jeremy Paxman is receiving very poor reviews.

From the New Statesman’s Jason Cowley

From the Guardian’s John Harris

From the Economist’s Adrian Wooldridge

From the Guardian’s Martin Kettle

From HuffPost’s Paul Waugh

From Steve Richards

From the TLS’s Stig Abell

Jeremy Corbyn has won a surprise admirer.

In the past Nigel Farage, the former Ukip leader, used to be much more positive about May. He is starting to sound a tad disillusioned.

Updated

These are from Stefan Rousseau, the Press Association’s chief political photographer.

Ed Miliband has used Twitter to congratulate Jeremy Corbyn on his performance.

And here is the official Labour party reaction to the “debate”. This is from a Jeremy Corbyn spokesperson:

Theresa May floundered on her record on police cuts, on funding for our NHS and schools and on her manifesto policy on social care that didn’t last more than a few days before it was amended with an unspecified cap. It’s no surprise she had no answers because the Tories plan to continue the tax giveaways to the wealthy and big business while offering no new funding for public services.

There is a clear choice in this election about the kind of country we want Britain to be - between Labour’s plan to transform Britain for the many not the few, and a Conservative party that has held people back and put its wealthy backers first.

Updated

Here is the official Conservative HQ response to the “debate”. It’s a statement from David Davis, the Brexit secretary.

The prime minister brought it back to the fundamentals – who is going to get the best Brexit deal, and in doing so who will be able to secure our economy, our public services and our national security.

Tonight she showed the strength and quiet determination to confront the challenges the country faces and set out the way through them. It was a strong, mature, considered performance.

And it couldn’t have been more different to Jeremy Corbyn – who flannelled under pressure and couldn’t get past 30 years of words and deeds that put him on the wrong side of the British people.

May v Corbyn - Verdict from the Twitter commentariat

This is what political journalists and commentators are saying about the May v Corbyn showdown.

There is no consensus as to a winner, and both Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May are judged to have put in solid performances in the face of difficult questioning. But, given that they weren’t playing off the same par (May was miles ahead of Corbyn as a prospective prime minister until recently, and now is just comfortably ahead of him), that arguably counts as a win for Corbyn in terms of expectations.

May had some very awkward moments, and did not really start hitting sixes (to mix sporting metaphors) until Jeremy Paxman kept asking her if she was willing to walk away from the Brexit talks without a deal. Quite why he kept asking was not clear, because she made it very clear that she would. Many experts say this would be madness, but opinion polls show the public likes this stance and the audience reaction tonight seemed to confirm that.

From the BBC’s Nick Robinson

From ITV’s Robert Peston

From the Guardian’s Jonathan Freedland

From the Financial Times’ Lionel Barber

From the Sunday Times’ Tim Shipman

From the Spectator’s Isabel Hardman

From the Times’ Patrick Kidd

From the New Statesman’s George Eaton

From the Spectator’s James Forsyth

From the Guardian’s Polly Toynbee

From the Times’ Matt Chorley

From the Guardian’s John Harris

From the Evening Standard’s Joe Murphy

From the Evening Standard’s Kate Proctor

From Sky’s Darren McCaffrey

From the Telegraph’s Christopher Hope

From the Mail’s Tim Sculthorpe

From the Guardian’s Ewen MacAskill

Updated

This is from BuzzFeed’s Jim Waterson.

Q: How much will you pay to leave the EU?

May says she will pay a fair settlement?

Q: Have you got a figure in your head on what it is worth paying to get out?

May says the key thing is to stop paying money in every year.

Q: Would you walk out if they demand £100bn?

May says she is prepared to walk out. No deal is better than a bad deal. She wants a good deal, she says.

Q: So you are prepared to leave the EU with no deal.

May says no deal would be better than a bad deal. She is not prepared to sign up to a bad deal.

She is not there to get the best deal at any price, she says.

She says she will be being a difficult woman and ensuring that she negotiates hard.

And that’s it.

Verdicts, summaries and analysis coming up soon.

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Updated

Paxman confronts May over immigration. She admits that she has not hit her target.

Q: Who won’t be able to come to the UK under your plans?

May says the government has not worked that out.

Q: And how much will it cost the economy restricting immigration. George Osborne says this policy is economically illiterate?

May says this is a policy that recognises that people have concerns about immigration. That is why it is so important to control it, she says.

She says immigration has an impact on people’s wages.

undefined

Updated

This is from the Guardian’s Owen Jones.

And this is from ITV’s Carl Dinnen.

Q: You have backed down over social care, and over national insurance. If I was in Brussels, I would think you are a blowhard who collapses at the first sign of gunfire.

The audience applaud.

May says she has got what she wanted on other negotiations.

Q: You also changed your mind on an early election.

May says she did not want one. But other parties made it clear that they would oppose Brexit, she says.

You also changed your mind on an early election.
You also changed your mind on an early election. Photograph: SKY

Updated

May interviewed by Jeremy Paxman

Q: When did you realise you had got it wrong on the biggest question of our time?

May says she assumes Jeremy Paxman is asking about Brexit.

She says the task for her is to deliver on what the people voted for.

Q: You said it would be mistake.

May says she also said the sky would not fall in it people voted to leave.

Q: So you changed your mind.

May says she is delivering what people want.

Paxman asks the question repeatedly.

May says: I take the view that we can make a success of Brexit.

Q: So you don’t really believe in it?

I believe in making a success of Brexit.

Q: Other people, Boris Johnson, Priti Patel, Andrea Leadsom, got it right and you got it wrong.

May starts to answer.

Q: You still think it is a duff idea?

The audience laugh at this.

May says we can get it right.

Q: But you still think it is a bad idea?

(Paxman may by now have beaten his own record, asking the same question 12 times, as he did with Michael Howard.)

  • May refuses to deny that she still thinks leaving the EU is a bad idea. Dodging the question, she repeatedly said she had to implement the will of the electorate and that Brexit could be a success.
undefined

Updated

From Reaction’s Iain Martin

From the Mail on Sunday’s Dan Hodges

From the Sunday Times’ Tim Shipman

From the Guardian’s Jonathan Freedland

May ends saying there will be some hard choices facing the country ahead.

Q: It may be helpful being a “bloody difficult women” negotiating with the EU, but does it make people think the Conservatives are “the nasty party” in domestic terms?

May says when a colleague (Ken Clarke) used that expression, he was referring to the fact that May sticks by something when she is determined to achieve it.

If doing the right thing involves being a difficult woman, that is what she will be.

undefined

Updated

A member of the audience tells May that many of the supposed efficiency savings in the NHS are just cuts.

Q: Can you tell me why I have leaflets from Tories saying there would be £350m for the NHS if we voted to leave the EU? That is why I voted to leave

May says passionate arguments were made on both sides.

The Boris Johnson Twitter feed, which has been providing a constant running commentary so far, has gone quiet on this point.

Updated

This is from the Sun’s Harry Cole.

Q: Can you confirm that funding for schools in real terms will go down under your plans?

May says no party can confirm that funding will go up.

This prompts some laughter from the audience. Someone shouts about how Labour’s plans are funded.

undefined

Updated

This is from the New Statesman’s Stephen Bush.

Q: Why is it fair for the winter fuel payment to be means-tested in England but not in Scotland.

May says that is a result of devolution.

Q: How many people will still get the winter fuel payment?

May says this is another area where the government needs to consult.

But the most needy pensioners will be protected, she says.

Q: What level will the cap be set at?

May says she clarified that there would be a cap because there was “scaremongering” about her plans.

She will consult on what the level should be. That is the best way to do it, she says.

undefined

Updated

Q: [From a pensioner] I am worried about not being able to leave my home to my children, which is what would happen under your so-called dementia tax. So why should I vote for you?

May says she is glad this has been raised.

It is great that people are living longer. At the moment, if you need care, and you have savings of more than £23,000, you have to pay. If you need residential care, the value of your home is taken into account.

She says she wants to take those risks away. That is what her plans are about.

No one will have to sell their home in their lifetime; £100,000 will be protected and there will be a cap on what people have to spend.

In 10 years’ time, there will be 2m more people over 75. If the care system is not addressed, it will collapse.

Updated

May questioned by audience

Theresa May arrives. Welcoming Faisal Islam, she wishes him happy birthday.

Q: As a serving police officer, what can you say about protecting police budgets?

May says policing is changing. The government will be putting more money in, she says.

She says she gave the police new powers to deal with terrorism.

Islam asks what police numbers are now. May gives the number, which is 20,000 lower than in 2010.

Q: Was cutting them a mistake?

May says in 2010 the government had to live within its means.

She says the government has protected counter-terrorism budgets.

But policing is changing, she says. And the sort of jobs the police do are changing.

undefined

Updated

Overall, it has gone pretty well for Jeremy Corybn, all things considered.

(Full verdict later.)

This is from ITV’s Robert Peston.

From the Guardian’s Ewen MacAskill

From Sky’s Darren McCaffrey

From the Spectator’s James Forsyth

Q: Why did you describe the killing of Osama bin Laden as a tragedy.

Corbyn says he thought bin Laden should have been arrested and put on trial.

Q: People are worried about the people you associate with. Why did you call Hamas your friends?

Corbyn says he was using inclusive language at the start of a meeting. There has to be a peace process, he says.

And that’s it. The Corbyn section is over.

Updated

Q: The primary duty of the prime minister is protection of the state. But the last time British soil was invaded, when Argentina invaded the Falklands, you said British soldiers should not die to help the government. You said it was a Tory plot.

Corbyn says he wanted a negotiated solution.

He thought Margaret Thatcher was exploiting the situation.

Q: What happens if the chief of the defence staff comes to you and says we have eyes on someone planning to attack the UK, we have 20 minutes to take him out. What would you do?

Corbyn says he would want to see the evidence, and consider what might happen to civilians.

He does not want to answer a hypothetical decision.

Q: It is not hypothetical.

It is, says Corbyn.

Q: Are you prepared to contemplate no deal with Europe?

There will be a deal, says Corbyn.

Q: How much money will you give to Brussels to get a deal?

Corbyn says there will be a negotiation. He does not recognise the figures quoted by Michel Barnier.

The priority has to be tariff-free access.

Q: How much are you prepared to give to get a deal?

Corbyn says there is no answer, because no one knows at this stage. He says Labour will pay what is legally required.

Q: Would a Corbyn Brexit mean lower immigration?

Corbyn says this came up earlier. (See 8.44pm.)

undefined

Updated

This is from HuffPost’s Paul Waugh.

Q: There is nothing in there about getting rid of the monarchy.

There is nothing in there because we are not going to do it, says Corbyn.

Q: You don’t believe in it.

Corbyn says Labour is not going to get rid of the monarchy. He has had a nice chat with her, he says.

We live in a democracy.

He says he is fighting this election on social justice.

Q: There is a whole load of things you could not persuade your party to accept.

Corbyn says this manifesto would make a big difference. It would cut class sizes. He does not want to live in a country of food banks.

undefined

Updated

Q: How can we trust you on security when John McDonnell held up a manifesto calling for disarming the police and disbanding MI5.

Corbyn says John McDonnell signed off on the manifesto calling for more police officers.

Q: So he signs off letter saying one thing, and promises another.

Corbyn says McDonnell as chancellor will invest in our future.

Q: In 2013 you said the banks should be in public ownership. That is not in the manifesto?

Corbyn says the manifesto has been agreed by the party.

Q: Will you freeze benefits for three years?

Corbyn says benefits will be paid and uprated.

There will be a higher living wage, he says.

Q: Will benefits be frozen?

No, they will be uprated every year.

  • Corbyn says Labour would end the benefits freeze.
Paxman reacts to Corbyn’s answers
Paxman reacts to Corbyn’s answers Photograph: SKY

Updated

Corbyn refuses to say that renewing Trident is 'morally right'

Q: You promise to renew a nuclear weapon. Is that morally right?

Corbyn says that is what the party conference voted for.

Paxman asks the question several times again. Corbyn again refuses to answer directly, but says he wants to work for a nuclear-free world.

  • Corbyn refuses to say that renewing Trident is “morally right”.

Corbyn interviewed by Jeremy Paxman

Jeremy Paxman is interviewing Corbyn now.

Q: Are you frustrated your manifesto does not include some of your core ideas.

Corbyn says he is glad Paxman has it.

Q: I had to read it.

I had to write it, says Corbyn.

(It is getting a pit panto ...)

Jeremy Corbyn is interviewed by Jeremy Paxman
Jeremy Corbyn is interviewed by Jeremy Paxman. Photograph: Stefan Rousseau/AP

Updated

This is from the FT editor, Lionel Barber.

And this is from the Sunday Times’ Tim Shipman.

This is from David Gauke, the chief secretary to the Treasury. He says Jeremy Corbyn has changed his line on that IRA-linked commemoration he once attended.

This is from the Observer’s Michael Savage.

Asked about nuclear weapons, Corbyn says he wants a more peaceful world.

Q: Will you write letters of last resort to Trident commanders?

Corbyn says he will write the appropriate letters. Our commanders are very loyal, he says.

Updated

This is from Tim Walker, a former Telegraph journalist.

Q: I’m a Mancunian and small business owner brought up in a Labour family. Your policies have made it impossible for me to vote Labour. [He mentions various business policies, and VAT on school fees.]

Corbyn says corporation tax was 28% in 2010. Labour will put it back up to 26%. Why? because this country is badly divided.

He appeals to the man in the audience, saying we are all better off when everyone is better off.

He says he thinks the questioner’s children probably want to go to university. Labour would get rid of tuition fees.

What is he proposing is transformational, he says. He says he listens to small businesses. They are often exploited by big business.

A £10 an hour minimum wage would mean the government would spend less on tax credits. People would be better off. And they would spend more.

He appeals to the questioner. How did we build the welfare state?

Updated

Corbyn says Labour would not threaten to turn the UK into a corporate tax haven.

This is from the academic Rob Ford.

Corbyn says immigration would not go up under Labour’s immigration policies

Asked about immigration, Corbyn says he is not going to put a figure on what it should be. The Tories have done that at the last two elections, and it has been a mistake.

He says Labour will not allow firms to bring in low-paid workers to undercut British workers.

He says there is disgraceful undercutting going on at the moment.

He says Labour would also set up a fund to help communities affected by immigration.

Q: Will immigration go up or down?

Corbyn says, under managed migration, it certainly would not go up.

  • Corbyn says immigration would not go up under Labour’s immigration policies.

This is from the Sunday Times’ Tim Shipman.

Corbyn says his manifesto is for everyone. He is proud of this manifesto, and proud to lead his party. He is looking forward to legislating for it.

Q: The questioner likes your manifesto. But he questions your leadership.

Corbyn says that he is sure that when he and John get to know each other, they will get along. He meets many people, he says. Some he likes, some he doesn’t. But you can learn from everyone.

Pointing to his ears and his mouth, he says leadership is as much about using the first as the second.

This is from the Times’s Patrick Kydd.

Q: How can we trust you given your record with the IRA?

Corbyn says he wanted a peace process.

That process came about, he says.

We should be pleased we have achieved a great deal through the Good Friday agreement, he says. That has become a model for the world.

Q: Did you vote for the Good Friday agreement?

Yes, says Corbyn.

Q: Should there be more armed police officers?

Corbyn says there should be what is necessary to protect life.

Ideally, we would not have any. But they are necessary.

Q: You openly supported the IRA in the past. You attended a commemoration to honour IRA men.

Corbyn says the questioner is referring to an event where people commemorated everyone killed in Northern Ireland.

Q: The event was held to commemorate the deaths of IRA men killed on their way to kill British solidiers.

Corbyn says he was commemorating everyone who was killed.

This is from the Spectator’s James Forsyth.

The questioner asks if Corbyn will look the other way if military intervention is needed.

Corbyn says the coalitions fighting Isis are complex. Some are fighting each other.

We need to cut off their funds and publicity. And we need a peace process in Syria, and a government in Libya, he says.

Corbyn questioned by audience

Jeremy Corbyn goes first, taking questions from the audience.

Corbyn seems quite relaxed as he arrives. “Faisal, happy to see you.”

Q: In your speech after the Manchester attack, you said we need a foreign policy that reduced the threat. Why should we soften our foreign policy if Islamic State will not compromise?

Corbyn says this is not about softening our foreign policy.

This was an appalling attack, he says.

He says his point was that we should not leave parts of the world a breeding ground for terror. Do not allow this to become an attack on Islam. This was a perversion of Islam, he says.

Updated

May v Corbyn - live

The programme is starting.

Faisal Islam and Jeremy Paxman are introducing it.

Full Fact is promising a live fact checking service from tonight’s programme.

Updated

Boris Johnson is taking his spin room duties particularly seriously. He is even spinning on the spinners. He has posted this on Twitter about Rudd v Gardiner. (See 8.12pm.)

Conservative HQ has just tweeted this.

And the Labour press office has just tweeted this.

Sky have now got Amber Rudd, the home secretary, and Barry Gardiner, the shadow international trade secretary, in the spin room.

Gardiner says that when Theresa May became home secretary, she cut the staff for MI5, MI6 and GCHQ by 5%. That is more relevant to today than anything Jeremy Corbyn said 30 years ago, he says.

Rudd says she is surprised Gardiner wants to debate security. In 2011, Corbyn boasted about not supporting a single piece of anti-terror legislation, she says.

And she says in 2015 the government decided to increase spending on counter-terrorism from £11bn to £15bn.

That did not take staffing back to the level it was in 2010, Gardiner says.

Rudd says that is “completely untrue”.

Updated

Here is today’s Guardian daily election podcast. It features Jonathan Freedland and Owen Jones discussing the current state of the race.

Updated

Jeremy Corbyn has arrived at the Sky HQ for the programme.

Jeremy Corbyn arriving at the Sky HQ
Jeremy Corbyn arriving at the Sky HQ Photograph: Sky News

As promised, here is more from the Boris Johnson/Andrew Gwynne barney I mentioned earlier. (See 7.24pm.) If the programme itself is half as lively, we’ll be in for a good evening.

  • Boris Johnson, the foreign secretary, claimed Jeremy Corbyn could not negotiate on behalf of the UK because he supported a united Ireland. He said:

You need somebody who’s going to be tough on terrorism, tough on the terrorists. I have to say, looking at Jeremy Corbyn’s history as a parliamentarian, I worry genuinely about how he can negotiate for a United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland when he wanted the IRA to win, as he saw it.

Andrew Gwynne, Labour’s election coordinator, objected, saying that things had “moved on” since the period Johnson was referring to.

  • Johnson claimed Corbyn wanted a second referendum on Scottish independence. Gwynne rejected this. He told Johnson:

Nonsense, absolute nonsense. You are making this up as you go along. It is a bit like your £350m for the NHS.

But Johnson then challenged Gwynne to say that Corbyn was opposed to a second referendum. Gwynne did not answer this directly, but he said Labour supported the union and did not want to reopen the independence question. (Corbyn’s own comments on this have been considerably more ambiguous - see 7.01pm.)

  • Johnson claimed Corbyn could only become prime minister as head of a “tutti frutti coalition of chaos”. He said:

The only way Jeremy Corbyn could conceivably become prime minister would be as part of a tutti frutti coalition of chaos, a sort of Munsters family-style arrangement.

  • Johnson refused to deny that 10m pensioners would lose their winter fuel payments under the Tory plan to means-test them. This estimate has come from the Resolution Foundation. Gwynne challenged Johnson to confirm or deny it, but Johnson dodged the question.
Boris Johnson (left) and Andrew Gwynne.
Boris Johnson (left) and Andrew Gwynne. Photograph: Sky News

Updated

Just in case Jeremy Paxman’s researchers have been a little slack, the Conservatives and Labour have both sent out press releases to journalists with some questions for Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May to answer.

The Tories sent out their questions this afternoon. They’ve got 10, and they are all about Brexit. (The Tories are trying to put Brexit back at the centre of the campaign - see 6.47am.)

1 - Your shadow brexit secretary said in April that you were going to tear up the negotiating objectives this government has produced and ‘replace [them] with fresh negotiating priorities. How precisely will you rewrite our negotiating objectives in the 11 days between entering government and starting negotiations?

2 - Should an objective of Brexit be to reduce the number of people coming to Britain?

3 - You say that you will immediately guarantee the rights of EU citizens living here on day one. Do you accept the EU’s negotiating position that they should continue to be protected by EU law rather than UK law once we have left - which would be enforced by the European commission and European court of justice?

4 - Your mayor of London wants a London specific immigration policy once we have left the EU. Do you support the idea of regional immigration controls?

5 - Your shadow Brexit secretary said in April that you want to ‘retain the benefits of the single market’. Are you willing to allow free movement of EU citizens in order to retain those benefits?

6 - You said last November to Andrew Marr that preserving ‘justice issues through the European court’ would be a red line for you in the Brexit negotiations. So would the European court of justice still have control over our laws once we leave the EU under your administration?

7 - Your shadow Brexit secretary said in April that you want to leave membership of the customs union ‘on the table’. Does that mean you don’t want to strike new free trade deals in our own right?

8 - Your manifesto says that ‘no deal is the worst possible deal for Britain’. Does that mean you will accept literally any deal the EU offers?

9 - Will we definitely leave the EU if your MPs vote against the deal you come back with?

10 - If you become prime minister, you will rely on SNP and Lib Dem support in a hung parliament. Both of them want to stop Brexit. What concessions would you make to them?

Labour sent their questions out yesterday. They have only got six, and they are more general than the Tories’.

1 - Will Theresa May confirm that 10 million pensioners will lose their winter fuel payments if the Conservatives are re-elected? And if not ten million, how many will it be?

2 - At what level will the cap be set on social care costs that those with conditions such as dementia will have to pay under Conservative plans?

3 - Will Theresa May match Labour’s pledge not to raise personal National Insurance contributions, and not to raise income tax for 95% of taxpayers?

4 - Will the Conservatives confirm they are planning another five years of austerity for public services, as the Institute of Fiscal Studies (IFS) stated last week?

5 - The Conservatives have warned they will scrap free school meals for 5-7 year olds if they are re-elected. Will they now spell out a realistic costing for their school breakfast proposal now they have withdrawn their discredited 6.8p figure?

6 - Will Theresa May confirm she is proposing not a single penny of extra funding for the NHS, as the IFS has stated?

Updated

Theresa May has arrived at Sky HQ for tonight’s programme.

Theresa May arriving at the Sky HQ
Theresa May arriving at the Sky HQ Photograph: Sky News

Senior aides for Labour and the Conservative party met at noon on Thursday last week in “neutral territory” to settle a question that has been bothering both teams: should Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn go first in the Sky/Channel 4 election programme.

The Guardian understands that the Conservatives were keen for their candidate to open the first major television clash of the campaign - perhaps in order to appear prime ministerial to viewers.

But Labour aides resisted the idea, leading to the need to battle it out. Well sort of. Sources said that senior aides - James Schneider for Labour and Tom Swarbrick for the Tories - decided they would do it in person, meeting outside the QE2 conference centre in Westminster.

Sky’s head of politics, Esme Wren, was to toss a coin to make the decision, but – in a comedy of errors – dropped it first go. Next time round, Labour won with heads, and said they wanted Corbyn to come out first – although it is not clear why they would consider that to be the advantage given that the second person has a chance to hear and respond to earlier points.

The Labour leader will now emerge in Sky’s headquarters, in Osterley, west London, to a 22-minute question and answer session with the audience, chaired by political editor, Faisal Islam. From there he will face an 18 minute grilling from Channel 4’s Jeremy Paxman, before the prime minister comes out for her turn.

The pair will be kept in separate green rooms and are unlikely to cross in person. The format of the programme has been designed because May, like her predecessor David Cameron, is unwilling to go head-to-head with the Labour leader.

But with Sky and Channel 4 bringing back together their 2015 election team to prepare Paxman and Islam, the prime minister and Labour leader could be in for a rough ride yet.

Updated

In the spin room ahead of the “debate” Boris Johnson, the foreign secretary, and Andrew Gwynne, the Labour election coordinator, have just been engaged in their own rather vigorous election debate. There was a lot of finger-jabbing and some raised voices.

Johnson was challenging Gwynne to say whether Labour was for or against a second referendum on Scottish independence. Gwynne was challenging Johnson to give details of the Tory policy on pensions.

I’ll post some of the highlights shortly.

Boris Johnson (left) and Andrew Gwynne.
Boris Johnson (left) and Andrew Gwynne. Photograph: Sky News/Sky

Updated

Here are two good Observer/Guardian articles which provide some good background ahead of tonight’s May/Corbyn TV showdown.

  • Robert Ford, an academic, asks whether TV events like tonight’s can make a difference and change minds. (Only very rarely, he concludes.)
  • Giles Kenningham and Elliot Burton, two former Tory aides, explain the spin tactics that take place before and after a TV “debate” like tonights.

Jeremy Corbyn has again come under attack for appearing to countenance a second Scottish independence referendum after again failing to stick to Scottish Labour’s strict script that robustly rejects another vote on the issue.

The Labour leader faced Tory claims he was plotting a “sweetheart” deal with Nicola Sturgeon after he was quizzed by Bauer and Global radio at the end of his short visit to Scotland on what stance he would take with Sturgeon’s demands for a second independence vote in under two years.

The interviewer asked him to assume he was prime minister:

Theresa May says now is not the time for another independence referendum. You walk into Downing Street in a couple of weeks time, what do you say to Nicola Sturgeon?

Corbyn replied:

I’ll obviously open discussions with the government in Scotland and listen very carefully to what the Scottish parliament says.

I would ask them to think very carefully about it and suggest it would be much better to have this question dealt with at the conclusion of what are very serious and very important Brexit negotiations, where I am utterly determined to achieve tariff free trade access to the European markets to protect manufacturing and service jobs all across the UK, all across Scotland, Wales and England as well of course.

Ruth Davidson, the Scottish Tory leader, insisted this proved Corbyn was selling out the UK to strike a deal with the SNP at Westminster. Wincing at Corbyn’s ambiguous language, Scottish Labour officials insist he really was rejecting the case for a second vote, just gently and diplomatically. They would rather he mimicked Theresa May, and just say “no means no”.

Jeremy Corbyn speaking at a rally in Glasgow on Sunday.
Jeremy Corbyn speaking at a rally in Glasgow on Sunday. Photograph: Robert Perry/Getty Images

Updated

Good afternoon. And I hope you’re having a good bank holiday. At this time of year they come so often you could be forgiven for thinking that Jeremy Corbyn has already won the election.

We’re entering the final stretch of the general election campaign and in just under two hours’ time, at 8.30pm, we’re going to get the biggest TV moment of the campaign so far, when Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn go head to head (almost) in a live TV “debate”. They are debating, just not with each other. It’s a Sky/Channel 4 News election special, where the two leaders will be taking questions from the audience, moderated by Faisal Islam, and being interviewed by Jeremy Paxman. On Friday the BBC is hosting something similar when its Question Time election special goes out.

With her poll lead falling, May does not seem to be enjoying the campaign greatly. She was at an event in south-west London this afternoon and took a question from the Daily Mail’s sketchwriter, Quentin Letts, who told her she seemed a bit of a “glumbucket”.

Letts is probably about the only Daily Mail journalist powerful enough to challenge May like that. (Paul Dacre, the Mail’s editor, is a huge May fan.) Inviting a question from Letts, May said she had not taken a question from him before. Nor will she be doing so again, we can assume.

For the record, this is what May said in her reply:

I think it’s absolutely right that we suspended campaigning for a time after the Manchester attack and I think people have been careful to be respectful as they have started back into campaigning.

I’m optimistic about what we can achieve for this country for the future but this is a crucial election and there is a very clear choice for people when they come to that poll on June 8.

Here are some of the other highlights from the campaign so far today.

  • Theresa May has used her campaign visit to refocus the Conservative general election campaign, putting Brexit at the heart of it again. She told an audience of party supporters:

The questions for this campaign haven’t changed since I called it six weeks ago. Who do you trust to stand up for Britain, to negotiate for Brexit and get the best possible deal for Britain in Europe?

  • Hundreds of campaigners have staged a march through London against Tory plans to allow MPs a free vote on repealing the ban on fox hunting.
Anti-foxhunting protesters march through the streets of London.
Anti-foxhunting protesters march through the streets of London. Photograph: Justin Tallis/AFP/Getty Images
  • Ann Myatt, the Conservative candidate contesting murdered MP Jo Cox’s former seat, has blamed a “tiring day” for telling a hustings: “We’ve not yet shot anybody so that’s wonderful.” In a statement later she said:

I wholeheartedly apologise for my ill-judged remarks at the hustings and for any offence they caused.

I said sorry at the time and would like to apologise again for my comments, which were out of character and came at the end of a tiring day.

If you look at what we do with people who return who might have been involved in fighting in somewhere like Syria, everybody is looked at on a case-by-case basis.

That temporary exclusion order didn’t even exist under the last Labour government. It was a Conservative government, it was me as home secretary that put it into the legislation to give powers to the police.

But how those powers are applied are operational decisions for the police and the security services.

I will be reporting on the build-up to the May/Corbyn showdown, covering the event itself, and then bringing you reaction, analysis and a summary of the key news lines.

If you want to follow me on Twitter, I’m on @AndrewSparrow.

Faisal Islam (left) and Jeremy Paxman rehearse on the set ahead of the live televised show ‘May v Corbyn Live: The Battle for Number 10’.
Faisal Islam (left) and Jeremy Paxman rehearse on the set ahead of the live televised show ‘May v Corbyn Live: The Battle for Number 10’. Photograph: Handout/Sky via Getty Images

Updated

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