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The Guardian - UK
The Guardian - UK
World
Jon Henley

French presidential candidates debate key election issues – as it happened

Presidential candidates: (L to R and in alphabetical order): François Fillon, Benôit Hamon, Marine Le Pen, Emmanuel Macron and Jean-Luc Melenchon.
Presidential candidates: (L to R and in alphabetical order): François Fillon, Benôit Hamon, Marine Le Pen, Emmanuel Macron and Jean-Luc Melenchon. Photograph: Joel Saget, Eric Feferberg/AFP/Getty Images

Conclusion

And that’s it; it’s over. Three hours and 20 minutes of debate. Very hard to say who came out on top. Here’s one succinct and trenchant view:

Our Paris correspondent Angelique Chrisafis will be filing her report shortly and the pundits will have their say tomorrow.

Le Pen came across as shouty and angry (and seriously flakey on the economy); Fillon mostly quiet but with a few strong moments, particularly on pensions and foreign policy; Macron enthusiastic, idealistic, passionate at times.

Conservative commentator Christophe Barbier reckons Le Pen did herself no favours: not presidential, too pugnacious:

And Barbier gave the candidates these marks out of 20, conceding they weren’t very scientific:

Fillon: 12/20; Hamon: 11/20; Mélenchon : 14/20; Macron: 14/20; Le Pen: 9/20.

But all will have pleased their own voters, I imagine. The next few rounds of polls will show whether this evening’s debate made any difference.

That’s it from me: good night!

Updated

Summing up

Fillon: a real change of politics is needed and I’m the only candidate who can deliver it. I’m the only one who could have a stable majority to deliver it. I may have committed a few errors, who hasn’t. But I have experience, and the will to do this.

Hamon: I’m offering you a vote that will be useful to you, your children, your grandchildren. You are used to voting against; I suggest you vote for: for the environment, for purchasing power for the poorest families; for a sixth republic; for a desirable future.

Le Pen: Most of the promises you’ve heard tonight cannot be put into practice because the EU will prevent them. You, the French, have the right to decide. Uncontrolled globalisation has been a disaster for you. I will do nothing against your will. I will start negotiations with Europe, and I will organise a referendum. I call on you to vote for liberty. If you make the right political choices things will improve immediately.

Mélenchon: We cannot affront the threats the world faces with hands tied by money. I want to give the republic back to France by relieving it of this presidential monarchy. I am ready for this responsibility ... to put in place a programme that will upset lots of vested interests.

Macron: Thank you for this debate. I want to reconcile opinions. Our country is divided, by fear, and by the way some people play on fear. You are not the problem – the problem is that the established order is not the right one. I propose pragmatism, with zero tolerance. My project is one that will make France proud. Profound change, that’s our project. It’s a profound renewal of French politics. I want France, our country, to offer a chance – a chance for each and every one of you.

Updated

Terrorism

The debate has now been going on for more than three hours.

Le Pen says to avoid future terrorism attacks must be prevented by regaining control of France’s frontiers, expelling known militants, banning fundamentalist organisations, closing fundamentalist mosques ...

“We must give ourselves the means to wage this necessary war against Islamic fundamentalism,” she says.

Fillon says the world faces a longterm war that will take a decade at least. It will need alliances with Russia, the Middle East and others, and in the meantime France must secure itself: deporting anyone who has a “proven relationship with the enemy”, stripping French nationality from anyone who takes up arms against his country.

Macron says no one can guarantee no new attacks. “It needs responsibility, maturity.” A diplomatic solution in the Middle East; punishment for those who have fought against France; improving intelligence cooperation.

Updated

Macron says he is the only candidate who has pledged to fulfil France’s responsibilities to Europe. He says the French people will give him a mandate to defend France’s economic independence and its security.

He says France’s place is at the heart of Europe, working with Europe. Le Pen snorts. “You have said nothing,” Le Pen says. “You have talked for seven minutes and said nothing.”

Updated

France's place in the world

The final stage of the debate: foreign policy.

Hamon says France should always be capable and willing to intervene militarily abroad in defence of international law. He says Trump and Russia’s ambitions have changed everything: less America (on the world stage) should lead to more Europe, he says.

Le Pen says no one should decide for France. “I don’t want to force our soldiers to fight in wars that we have not decided,” she says. The French army is in a parlous state, she says, and defence spending must be raised to 3% of GDP by the end of the next presidency.

Fillon says that’s ridiculous: completely unaffordable.

Mélenchon says the world has become a dangerous place. He wants to be a president of peace, he says. No war, but negotiations ...

Le Pen has spoken longer and louder than everyone else ...

Healthcare

Another lengthy and detailed discussion.

Mélenchon says everyone should be reimbursed in full for all their healthcare expenses: “We know how to fund that, it’s not complicated.”

Fillon says the system has to be “debureaucratised” and GPs need to be at the heart of the system. They need to be paid properly, to be able to work in teams. Hospitals need to be more independent.

Macron also wants healthcare professionals to have more autonomy.

Le Pen says France has to cut waste in its healthcare system. As a mother of three, she says, she could have started a pharmacy ...

There is a lengthy debate on the age of retirement ...

Fillon proposes raising the retirement age to 65.

Macron says he will reform the pension system from top to bottom. It is unclear and confusing and unfair, he says. One euro paid into the system should be worth one euro at retirement age, he says.

Tweet of the night so far: “As president of the Republic, I would shorten presidential debates.”

Le Pen says Brexit is a huge success and the UK’s results are “formidable”. Everyone knows what I think of Europe and the euro, she says.

The other candidates laugh ...

Updated

Le Pen’s ideas on the economy are not entirely coherent, according to some:

Fillon accuses Le Pen of leading France “towards social and economic chaos”.

Updated

Taxes: are they too high?

Hamon says the only new idea in the campaign is his: a universal basic income.

Fillon says France’s neighbours have not cut the working week and are doing better than France. Investment is key, he says. He is determined to raise purchasing power.

Macron says investment has to be increased and the social security charges companies pay have to be reduced. He says he will abolish property tax, paid by 85% of French citizens.

Fillon accuses him of being “a little bit left, a little bit right” – Macron replies that his policies are “effective, and fair”.

Updated

Le Pen says she does not want to enter into “a debate among ultra-liberals”. That model has shown its shortcomings, she says, it has “ruined our agriculture, ruined our industry”.

France needs “economic patriotism” she says; the state must encourage French businesses, not foreign businesses. The EU encourages unfair competition and French industry pays the price.

Updated

Quite a few observers agreeing that Fillon does not seem to be able to make his mark on this debate. “He’s trying, but it’s not getting through”:

A trace of irony:

The economy

Unemployment is a major and stubborn problem in France. What’s the solution?

Fillon says countries around France have managed full employment. So why haven’t we? Employees must be able to negotiate hours with employers on a company-by-company basis, he says: “Give companies the freedom ... to organise themselves.”

Macron says he is not suggesting abolishing France’s 35-hour week. He says the law should set the framework and principles, but companies and industrial sectors should be able to decide. And he wants a cut in corporation tax.

Hamon says we need to take account now of the impact of automation. “I will be the candidate of a decent wage,” he says, and in an increase in the minimum wage.

Mélenchon says he is interesting in creating jobs by filling company order books; he will invest €100bn in future technologies.

Xavier Frison from Marianne magazine says Fillon is effectively absent from the debate, “inaudible, the big loser of the evening so far”:

A break ...

We’ve taken a break, I presume a commercial one ...

A few instant reactions: Le Figaro’s London correspondent reckons it isn’t everyone against Macron but everyone against Le Pen. Hamon and Le Pen are gunning for Macron, Fillon is reserved and Mélenchon is almost “acting as referee”:

Energy, nuclear power, environment

Hamon says France should close its old nuclear reactors and invest more in wind power.

Fillon says France’s nuclear industry must be safe.

Macron says he wants a 50-50 split between nuclear and renewable by 20150. He says clean air is critical: diesel cars should no longer get tax breaks; one million homes should be made more energy-efficient.

Le Pen says the freetrade, “ultra-liberal model” is intrinsically bad for the environment because it encourages production on the other side of the globe. She defends diesel, says French drivers who were encouraged to buy them should not be penalised.

Updated

Morality in public life

Asked how to restore a sense of morality in public life – with several of the participants embroiled in assorted judicial and other inquiries:

Fillon says he will set up a commission should be set up to improve transparency and guarantee good conduct.

Macron says conflicts of interests must be abolished as far as humanly possible; all relations with lobbyists must be disclosed; MPs’ pay must be made completely transparent; the rules must be clear.

Mélenchon says MPs should not be able to do consultancy work, and hiring family members – common practice in France – should be banned.

Le Pen says the campaign has helped French voters realise that some candidates are defending the interests of major groups rather than of the French people. She has a dig at Macron here, a former banker: “Private interests have invited themselves into this campaign.”

Macron comes close to accusing her of defamation, saying she has accused him of a conflict of interest – if she believes that, she should file a formal complaint, he says, or keep her silence.

A first few thoughts from the Guardian’s Paris correspondent, Angelique Chrisafis:

Macron began the debate at a certain disadvantage: this is his first ever election and he is more used to being on stage alone, delivering speeches than taking part in debates. When he was economy minister, one of his biggest, televised verbal shoot-outs was with Le Pen’s strategy mastermind and media pit-bull, Florian Philippot, who is tonight sitting, nodding, behind Le Pen in the studio.

Angelique adds:

So far tonight, Macron has aimed his fire at his right-wing rival Fillon, attacking him for using the term “civil war” and “wanting to sow the seeds of fear.” Macron, who has risen in the polls since Fillon’s legal woes of the past five weeks, also rubbished Fillon’s policy plan to lower the criminal age of responsibility to 16. But having let Hamon and Mélenchon lead most charges against Le Pen, Macron suddenly lashed out at the Front National candidate when she accused him of being in favour of the burkini. He accused her of deliberately wanted to “divide French society”.

Updated

Institutions

This promises to be pretty dry ...

Mélenchon says there should be a sixth Republic.

Le Pen says 500,000 voters should be able to call a referendum. The people are sovereign, she says; the number of MPs and senators should be cut; and France’s regions should be scrapped.

Hamon also calls for a sixth Republic, to “allow democracy to breathe”.

Macron says he has started a new political movement, without public subsidy – this is a real exercise in democratic renewal, he says.

He addresses the question of his campaign funding, the subject of some debate: it is funded by individuals giving between one and 7,500 euros, he says.

Asked specifically whether he is funded by wealthy individuals form the pharmaceutical or oil industry, Macron says he pledges not to be influenced by anyone.

Secularism

Secularism is respect at every moment for the laws of the Republic, says Macron. It is a shield.

Mélenchon says secularism is the separation of church and state and the absolute respect of liberty of conscience and freedom of belief. People are fed up with being hit over the head with secularism, he says. Hamon, essentially, agrees.

Le Pen says secularism in France is threatened by rising Muslim fundamentalism: demands around dress, around food, around all sorts of issues. Nobody is looking the problem in the face, she says.

Macron, Mélenchon and Hamon all react strongly to this. Macron accuses Le Pen, when she asked him what she thought of the burkini, at the centre of a major debate in France last summer, of trying to “divide French society”.

Updated

Hamon says the proportion of immigrants living in France is fundamentally unchanged for decades. Of 100 people who leave their home country around the world, he says, only four come to Europe.

Le Pen says she wants to “stop immigration. And I will not make any excuses for that”. She says national frontiers must be restored, “we can’t count on Greece”.

France has seven million unemployed people and nine million living in poverty, she says:

We have to put in place a policy to discourage immigration ... I understand why they want to come, but I am there to look after the interests of the French people.

And she says at least four terrorists have entered France as refugees or migrants.

Updated

Immigration

This is a key theme of the campaign.

Macron is first up: the real problem is illegal immigration, he says, and the first priority is an effective policy of sending back to their country of origin those who do not qualify for asylum.

That requires a genuine pan-European immigration and asylum policy, he says. And never forget: someone asking for asylum is someone who has fled a brutal regime. France’s policy must be firm but fair.

Fillon these are often not refugees – the immense majority are men and women fleeing poverty, not a brutal regime. He is in favour of quotas, “a very democratic system”, not for genuine asylum seekers but for economic migrants. “It is a fundamental question of control,” he says.

Hamon says neighbourhood policing needs to be boosted, and police operating in sensitive areas should get a bonus. Hostility to the police must stop, he says. On the other hand, ID controls must stop discriminating against non-whites.

Mélenchon says that in 10 years, parliament has passed 15 new security laws and none have ever been evaluated. Police are deeply unhappy, he says – but at the same time, “a certain part of the population is afraid of the police”. The “logic of confrontation” must stop.

Macron says it’s important not to exaggerate. But security is a priority, he says. He will create a new form of neighbourhood policing for petty crime and delinquency, with officers able to hand out on-the-spot fines and judges able to order expulsions. Pragmatism, not grand principles, he says.

On a follow-up question, Fillon says the age of criminal responsibility should be lowered to 16 from 18. Macron says that’s not necessary: France already has a functioning justice system for juveniles.

Updated

Security and justice

Le Pen says 12,500 police and gendarmerie posts were cut under the presidency of Nicolas Sarkozy. The security forces must be strengthened, she says.

She wants to create an extra 40,000 prison places, and stiffer penalties. Victims don’t understand why sentences are so short, she says.

Fillon says France has the biggest debt of any major country, so Le Pen’s promises are not affordable. But crime and delinquency have increased, he says, so something has to be done.

He suggests relieving police of their administrative burden and bringing in new staff to help. He says 16,000 new prison places will be sufficient – but above all, more respect for the police.

Updated

Le Pen says 50% of primary school time must be devoted to learning French and lessons in children’s mother tongues should be scrapped.

She too says professional training must be improved, and accuses the education ministry of neglecting this.

Schools are not safe places, she says: teaches are insulted and abused. And secularism must be preserved.

Hamon says French schoolchildren have the most demanding days of all pupils in Europe, and proposes limiting primary classes to 25. He says it is essential to hire 20,000 more teachers, and he promises more mixed intakes in secondary school, with larger catchment areas.

Updated

The first question from the two journalists: what social model for France?

Starting with education.

Fillon says 150,000 French school pupils leave school without knowing the fundamentals. He says discipline is important, and school uniforms – almost unknown in France – would underline equality. Teachers should be better paid and better viewed.

Emmanuel Macron says many 10- and 11 year-olds cannot properly read or write. In priority education areas, he says, he wants extra teaching hours and radically reduced class sizes, and far better vocational training.

Mélenchon says he wants to hire far more teachers, and also laments the closure of 170 technical colleges across France in recent years. Vocational training from age 16 is vital, he says.

Updated

Benoit Hamon asks whether the French want to be “warlike” or “fraternal” – what message do we want to send the world, he asks.

I will be an honest, open and fair president, he says; I will turn the page on the old promises.

Updated

Marine Le Pen says she does not want to be a president running a “vague region of the European Union”, submissive to Angela Merkel.

The president must be the guarantor of national independence, she says, for which millions of French people have fought and died.

That means the right for the French to choose their own path, she says. “The French must defend their interests.”

I will be the president who gives the French back their voice.

Updated

Emmanuel Macron says he has been a civil servant, a banker, and a minister. He has done “useful” things he says, but has also seen what blocks France and stops it advancing.

The country is in a situation in which it has never found itself, he says. It faces new challenges, and the traditional politics cannot face up to the challenge.

Jean-Luc Mélenchon says he will be the last president of the Fifth Republic.

He says he will be a president for ecology and for peace.

Updated

Kicking off is Francois Fillon. He regrets that the six other candidates in the first round are not participating.

He says he would be the president who relieves the French of too much bureaucracy, who protects them, who allows France to become once more a major world power.

I have a project for that, a project I have worked on for many years.

The candidates have entered the studio and final preparations for the debate are underway – all smiles and handshakes for the ‘family photo’.

“It’s going to be tough, it’s going to be physical,” says one of the TF1 presenters. “Nearly three hours of debate.”

Observers have said Macron, the independent centrist who classifies himself as “neither left nor right”, could become a target for the other four who may unite to attack him from all sides.

How well he stands up to the threat could be key to his success.
Jerome Fourquet, director of polling at leading French pollster Ifop, said the stakes were “incredibly high” for Macron:

He’s the front-runner and his centrist positioning means he will be attacked from both sides. Most French don’t know him well at this stage and they’ll be looking closely at his ability to take punches.

According to the news magazine Marianne, each candidate will have two minutes to respond to the journalists’ questions, with their rivals able to interrupt after a minute and a half.

Before the debate proper, they will each have 90 seconds to respond to the question “What kind of president would you be?” – with a similar amount of time at the end of debate to sum up.

Updated

Answering political journalists Gilles Bouleau and Anne-Claire Coudray from France’s main commercial channel, TF1, the candidates will address three main themes:

– What social model should France adopt (likely to cover the key campaign questions such as security, immigration and national identity)

– Which economic model should France adopt (likely to address labour laws and France’s stubborn unemployment, social protection, tax and trade)

– What place should France occupy in the world? (the European Union, control of France’s borders, terrorism)

So after months of scandal, corruption allegations and infighting, voters will finally get to assess the different policy positions of the leading candidates.

One of the many things that make this campaign intriguing is that neither of the two leading candidates, Le Pen and Macron, both on around 26% in the polls heading into the first round, represent the traditional parties of the centre-right (Les Républicains) and centre left (Parti Socialiste) that have dominated French politics since the war.

Le Pen is standing on a populist, anti-immigration, anti-EU platform but her economic proposals look left wing. Macron is on the left as far as social issues are concerned, but a pro-business liberal economically. Fillon, who is polling around 17%, and Hamon (13%) are firmly on the right and left wings of their respective parties.

Hit by allegations he paid his family to do fake parliamentary jobs, Fillon is a conservative Catholic who believes France needs a Thatcherite economic revolution; Hamon’s anti-austerity, pro-Europe programme includes the introduction of a minimum universal income.

Jean-Luc Mélenchon, the far-left candidate, is on about 10%.

Updated

Hello and welcome to the Guardian’s live coverage of the first televised debate between the leading candidates in France’s presidential election – one of the most keenly watched, and unpredictable, in recent memory.

The event is unprecedented: in past elections, the two candidates who make it through to the second-round run-off have faced off against each other in TV debates that have sometimes proved critical to the poll’s outcome.

This is the first time the campaign’s frontrunners have debated before the first round of the elections, due this year on 23 April (the second round follows a fortnight later on 7 May).

Over the next two and a half hours, Marine Le Pen of the far-right Front National, independent centrist Emmanuel Macron, François Fillon of the centre-right Les Républicains, the Socialist party’s Benoît Hamon and hard-left firebrand Jean-Luc Mélenchon will outline their platforms for a studio audience of 420 and a TV audience of several million.

I’ll be covering the event as it happens. Please feel free to contact me via Twitter @jonhenley or by email: jon.henley@theguardian.com – though I can’t promise to reply straight away.

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