Nighty night
I’ll let you all go to the pub now. Thanks so much for jumping on board, it’s been terrific. Mr Bowers and I will be back with you for another special edition of Politics Live on Sunday for Labor’s campaign launch from Penrith before rolling into the final fortnight. And don’t forget the live event in Melbourne next Tuesday night, would be great to see you there at the Malthouse.
Quick summary of this evening:
-
Malcolm Turnbull and Bill Shorten went head to head in the third leader’s debate of election 2016 in a debate hosted by Facebook and news.com
- The audience proclaimed the Labor leader the victor.
- Questions ranged from penalty rates, to housing affordability, climate and education.
Have a great night and restful Saturday. See you Sunday.
Here’s the audience verdict.
Every day I’m buffering.
Oh, the irony … Malcolm’s buffering as he talks up the #NBN #LeadersDebate pic.twitter.com/3TzOGSkhm6
— Reezy Miller (@Trixie_Boo) June 17, 2016
Nothing says fight like a double handed grip.
Mr Consensus is awake, and wants a fight: my quick verdict
The first quick take was that was a good debate. The second is in every forum, the questions from voters indicate Labor is much more on the zeitgeist than the Coalition when it comes to the policy concerns of voters. That has been entirely consistent throughout the campaign. Labor’s agenda is the one that is resonant at this moment in Australia’s history.
But the field evidence also shows us that the polls have hardly moved over the past several weeks. People are not giving Labor an affirmative bounce for being in touch.
Which brings me to the main take out of tonight. We saw it this morning. We saw it again tonight. Bill Shorten has taken a decision to try and punch it up as we head into the final fortnight. He’s leaning in to the prime minister, and starting to demand a contest, a fight, a clash of values.
The government’s objective is to keep this campaign as flat as possible, as tamped down, as reassuring, as dull as possible. The Coalition wants torpor not confrontation, because torpor guarantees a Coalition victory. Labor is evidently positioning to fight in the home stretch, which is interesting, because it’s against the grain for Shorten, who like consensus and commonality, not confrontation – it’s not his cadence.
But in my view, fight is the only chance Labor has of getting the contest by the throat. Judging by the Labor leader’s performance tonight, that’s what he thinks too. It was a feisty performance from Shorten, a few left hooks, a couple of risks, some high visibility contrast with his opponent, some assertive negativity.
But the prime minister didn’t stumble, didn’t take any wrong turns, he just followed the battle plan: keep it tight and tidy, stick with the messages, be reassuring, and all will be well on polling day.
Let’s see how that all goes.
Updated
Mike Bowers: all kinds of fabulous coming out of that room.
Now they are over and out.
I’ll share some pictures and some thoughts very shortly.
Bill Shorten crams in as much as possible.
I want to save Medicare. I want to make sure that every school is a great school properly resourced so kids get the best start in life. I want to make sure that working parents, especially working mums get relief from the cost of childcare. I want to make sure that our TAFE sector is revitalised. I want to lead a country which makes steel products and has a steel industry as well as a ship and sub-building industry I want to make sure we have innovations for infrastructure, public transport in our big cities to help improve productivity and relieve congestion, a national broadband network so that small businesses can compete in our region, I want to make sure people go to work and are paid properly including penalty rates and shift allowances. I want to make sure that in this country we generate sustainable jobs for the future, but on the basis of rigid budget discipline, and making sure we have a highly skilled workforce and making sure we have jobs for the future and we will do not by not having a corporate tax cut and by the way, vote for us, we will have a banking royal commission.
Summations now in response to a question about vision. The prime minister delivers the stump speech, with this added burst of enthusiasm, or over reach, depending on your level of tolerance on a Friday night.
Malcolm Turnbull:
What I’m doing is enabling the dreams of every Australian.
Question ten is on parliamentary perks, pensions and the like.
Malcolm Turnbull says an independent tribunal governs the system and the alternative is politicians police themselves. He says he’s the worst person to ask about entitlements because he didn’t come into politics to make more money.
Bill Shorten echoes the sentiment on the tribunal, but he inflects his point. He doesn’t understand why the Liberal party keeps freezing increases to everyone else’s superannuation.
I’m committed to lifting the superannuation, but I’m the Labor guy and I want to see people do better.
Question nine. Why is going to university becoming so unaffordable?
Malcolm Turnbull:
What we are doing, of course, is seeking to reform and provide more flexibility to universities. We are not going to deregulate fees entirely. As you know, the minister, Simon Birmingham, has announced that what we will seek to do is to offer the universities the ability to deregulate fees, if you like, for a small number of flagship courses so that they can compete, so that you do get more competition between universities, but the strong support - government support - through HECS, for higher education, is absolutely critical.
Hildebrand says deregulation means money flows to the top and not the bottom. Turnbull says competition between universities fixes that problem.
Bill Shorten says Labor is fair dinkum on education. No $100,000 degrees. And a better educated country means growth and jobs.
Q: Do you really think that that level of hatred would emerge in Australia in a plebiscite? Do you really think the no campaign would be talking about massacring gay people?
Bill Shorten:
I don’t understand homophobia. I also don’t understand why kids whose parents are LGBTI should have to go to school and see stupid posters on the walls, or be subjected to taxpayer-funded advertising campaigns. Life is hard enough. We’ve got enough going in our lives without taxpayer-funded campaigns challenging the authenticity of one person’s love for another.
Question eight is about the plebiscite for marriage equality. Why are we doing it?
Malcolm Turnbull says that was a decision of his party, but the evidence suggests people want a say.
I can assure you that I will support it, I’ll be voting yes, and I’m confident it will be carried.
Bill Shorten says this is a question of leadership. Parliament should get on with it.
I totally accept that Malcolm supports marriage equality. The problem is, it’s just how we get there. The argument says, plebiscites - very democratic. The truth of the matter is, this is a debate where I don’t believe people’s relationships and their love for each other need to be submitted to a public opinion poll.
We’ve seen two terrible events in the last week have shown that hate and terrorism does exist in modern societies. I don’t want to give haters a chance to come out from under the rock and make life harder for LGBTI people or their families, to somehow question the legitimacy of their relationship.
This is an opportunity for him and I to lead.
Turnbull says he trusts in the goodwill of the Australian people.
Seventh question is about mental health.
Less combative here between the two leaders. Bill Shorten talks about suicide prevention. He says unfreezing the GP rebates will help doctors treat people who need help.
Malcolm Turnbull says the Coalition is spending record amounts on mental health services now. He talks about the importance of primary care.
Updated
@murpharoo Pretty average. Mostly fine, but at times parts choppy, drops in and out, skips or replays short sections.
— Josh Holloway (@jmrhadl) June 17, 2016
Sixth question is about youth unemployment.
Malcolm Turnbull says it’s a significant issue.
The key is strong economic growth. If there’s growth, then companies expand. That’s why it is important to reduce tax.
Hildebrand says what’s Labor’s plan, we haven’t heard one have we? Bill Shorten says he’s been talking about jobs for the past week. He talks about TAFE and apprenticeships and the NBN.
A fight about the NBN ensues. Turnbull says it’s Labor’s fault that the NBN didn’t roll out faster. Shorten says hang on, do you want copper? Hit like on Facebook if you prefer fibre to copper. The prime minister is less than amused.
Speaking of which .. How’s reception going out there? Not great my readers say.
@murpharoo Buffering, Not Viewing (hmmm. sounds like a band name...)
— Donnie Mountjoy (@DonnieMountjoy) June 17, 2016
Fifth question is about company tax cuts. What actual evidence do you have that reducing company tax will lead to mass employment?
Malcolm Turnbull says company tax cuts boost growth and that boosts jobs. He says he only need quote Bill Shorten and Chris Bowen on the subject. Both have accepted that orthodoxy.
Bill Shorten says the company tax cuts and Labor’s support for that, is the great lie of this election.
The problem is the Libs only ever tell half the story.
The other side of the story is how you replace the income lost. Shorten says Turnbull should tell the whole story.
Paul Keating, Chris Bowen and myself have never, ever supported reducing corporate tax if it means sick people pay more [and] can’t go to the doctor. It’s ironic when Mr Turnbull misquotes me from the past. Let me remind you of a Turnbull quote. He called the current climate policy of the government, when he was not the leader of the government, a “fig leaf for environmental change”. Now all of a sudden, Tony Abbott’s his climate adviser.
Fourth question is climate change. What are the respective positions of the leaders?
Bill Shorten plays the man before recounting the various Labor policies:
Climate change is a real problem. I’m very lucky that I don’t lead a party who disputes me about the science of climate change.
Malcolm Turnbull repeats his formulation that he’s paid a high price for his support for the science of climate change. He then launches into a defence of Direct Action.
Third question is housing affordability.
Bill Shorten is asked what’s on the table beyond negative gearing. He says he wants to work with the states on land supply.
Malcolm Turnbull says the answer is his government’s cities policy. And supply. And infrastructure.
Here’s the online experience based on my reader feedback. I’m watching the networks because I need a reliable feed and I don’t trust the interwebz. Sorry interwebz.
@murpharoo so far it's out of sync and there's a wavy snake of angry emoticons drifting across. Weird.
— Chess (@chessiers) June 17, 2016
Second question is from a woman at the venue, Mary, a shift worker. She wants to know about penalty rates.
Malcolm Turnbull says the government has no plans to change penalty rates at all.
Not only do we have no plans, we will not. We will not make changes to penalty rates. It is a matter for the independent umpire, the Fair Work Commission.
Bill Shorten says Labor is committed to protecting penalty rates. He wants Malcolm Turnbull to put in a submission to the FWC arguing for the retention of penalty rates, like Labor did. Turnbull says he doesn’t think governments should lean on tribunals.
Malcolm Turnbull:
We believe the independent umpire should be independent and not be lent on by government one way or the other.
First question is from Melissa on Facebook who wonders why anyone can trust a word that politicians say.
Malcolm Turnbull kicks off proceedings.
We have an opportunity to make a very clear decision between now and July 2. And what I’m offering, as prime minister, and leader of the Coalition, is a very clear economic plan that will deliver stronger economic growth and more jobs. Because it is designed to do so. And it’s affordable.
He delivers the stump speech. Hildebrand follows up. The question was about trust given there has been a churn of prime ministers.
Malcolm Turnbull says, with a grin, I am opposed to churning prime ministers. He says he’s very committed to the prime minister after the election, so everyone is on the same page.
Bill Shorten addresses the question directly. He says Labor has learned the unity lesson. He says Labor can be trusted because it has put out big target policies, and will protect things voters care about.
Joe Hildebrand:
This is not the press gallery, these are the real people out there who quite a few, they don’t take crap. You know that. We know that. Let get started!
(Ok then.)
The leaders are in the venue and ready to go. Joe Hildebrand says he’s just the conduit here.
I am the empty vessel.
Kick off very shortly now. I can see Joe Hildebrand roving round with a microphone.
Some particulars. The debate is being moderated by Joe Hildebrand. There is a small audience, about thirty or so undecided voters. Some questions will come from the audience, some crowd sourced from voters on Facebook. The duration was to be an hour, but the advice now is 45 minutes.
If you want a second screen that isn’t Facebook or news.com, both ABC24 and Sky News are broadcasting live this evening. #JustSaying
Top of the Friday evening to you all
Hello good people of #ausvotes and welcome to Friday evening, which is an unusual Friday evening because it contains an election debate rather than a full tilt sprint to the nearest wine bar/pizza outlet. Yes folks, I’m afraid you need to either put the sprint on hold for an hour or so, or order-in if you simply cannot wait, because we need to watch the prime minister and alternative prime minister. Why? Well because they, well, actually, the prime minister in particular, (given election debates benefit opposition leaders more than they benefit prime ministers) would really prefer you didn’t watch. Malcolm Turnbull would like voters to register that a debate has happened so no-one who expects to be returned as prime minister for the next three years can be accused justly of harbouring a debate phobia (imagine, a debate phobia), but by all means Australia, don’t bother watching. That’s what scheduling a debate at 6pm on a Friday evening tells you more succinctly than words ever could. Don’t. Bother. Watching. Seriously. Don’t. Even.
Well, the thing is, I’m Irish by heritage (yes, tonight, the shocks keep coming), and I blame that for my hard wired tendency to do exactly what I’m told not to do. I am perverse like that. And I know I’m not alone. I know there will be the loyal and wonderful Politics Live crowd, sitting with their laptops, tablets and smart phones, perversely resolute in making sure that the fix tonight is not in, perversely resolute in hanging on every word of these proceedings, to see for ourselves whether they are a burst of the future, an exemplar of the digital era of political communications, or whether they are a complete, buffering, spluttering, omnishambles. Yes, fellow travellers, our eyes will be very firmly on the prize this evening and our reward will be the warm inner glow that comes from knowing that we have all watched despite all the prodigious effort involved in trying to make us do the opposite.
We will also be able to watch with Mike Bowers in the venue, recording proceedings. You will be able to watch and record your contributions in the thread, which is sitting wide open, welcoming your business. If the thread’s too bracing for you, Mike Bowers and I are up and about on the twits – he’s @mpbowers and I’m @murpharoo. If you only speak Facebook you can join my daily forum here. And if you want a behind-the-scenes look at the day and the campaign as a whole, give Mike a follow on Instagram. You can find him here.
Shiver me interwebz timbers. Here comes the Friday Facebook face-off.
