Thanks for all your questions
'Irish in the UK will be treated the same as before'
Tom Hoctor asks:
My mother and grandmother are both Irish citizens only, despite having lived in London since the 1970s. I don’t have a UK passport, but I’m a citizen through my father. Has there been any indication of what the rights of Irish citizens post-Brexit will be? Given that the Irish have preferential rights compared to citizens of other EU member states, will this be preserved?
Guardian staff Good news Tom is that the 330,000 Irish in the UK don't have to apply for "settled status". We will be treated the same as before.
Lisa
'It will depend what the government considers to be "strong ties"'
FreddyMarx asks:
Hi Lisa, will anyone with “settled status” be able to leave UK for more that 2 years without losing such status? It’s “settled” for life or simply dependent on being based in UK?
Guardian staff Paragraph 20 of British proposal - it will depend what the government considers to be "strong ties".
20) Settled status is not the same as citizenship - for example, holders of this status do not have a UK passport - but those with settled status and at least six years’ residence may apply for citizenship. Settled status would generally be lost if a person was absent from the UK for more than two years, unless they have strong ties here.
WhereIsHome asks:
With regard to other economic rights, the UK will seek to protect the right of establishment (the right to be self-employed and to set up and manage an undertaking) for EU citizens resident in the UK before the specified date and vice versa.
Why not guarantee this right? Businesses create wealth, jobs, raise business taxes. What’s the motive?
If no deal on this, do I lose the right to run the business I founded in 1991?
Guardian staff Hi Whereishome (again, wish you guys would use real names on these forums/fora)
This is a good point. And it goes to the point made by the3million yesterday, that the document is "vague", lacks detail and does not make people feel safe.
I will be speaking to Jane Golding, the lawyer in Germany who is part of the British in Europe coalition later and I will ask her about this.
Hopefully I'll be able to address this in a report later
Lisa
A reader asks:
A lot of EU citizens were panicked into obtaining a permanent residence document. It appears that this is now without value. Will the £65 fee be refunded?
Guardian staff They have not said, but they will come under pressure to offer those who applied, and received, PR to automatically receive "settled status". I wouldn't hold out any hope however.
Lisa
‘We expect that these new rules will become part of bitter clashes in the negotiations’
ThomasChristopherKin asks:
I have a question about being able to leave the UK (for work) and come back, due to the type of work I am involved in. I am a British national working in the UK, my partner is a non-British EU national also living with me. We moved here last year. I am a researcher (with a PhD) and so I have to be flexible in working anywhere (outside of the UK) due to my specialism. But, if me and my partner leave the UK before she has stayed for five years, that might mean we cannot both return. Is this correct? What can we do in our situation?
Guardian staff Hi Thomas,
Thanks for the interesting question which again shows how life choices are being profoundly impacted by the government's proposal for EU citizens.
Here's a quick answer but you'd need to check further.
You as a British national will be free to move - but you might need a visa or work permit to move to another European country post Brexit.
Your partner, who is an EU national, may indeed have to work up a five year continuous period in the UK to have "settled status".
However as an EU national she can live and work anywhere else in Europe under freedom of movement laws.
She can also, presumably, return to the UK under whatever new immigration rules the British government put in place for EU citizens.
We expect that these new rules will become part of bitter clashes in the upcoming Brexit negotiations.
Hope this helps,
Lisa
Updated
StealthyBanana asks:
It sounds like the EU will offer freedom to live and work across the EU to those Britons currently living in an EU country.
What is the deadline / window that a British person would need to be living in the EU to get those rights?
Guardian staff I am running out of time - but the current law, which the EU is proposing to roll over for Britons in Europe, states that you start to acquire rights three months after you move to another country to work. You then complete the acquisition of those rights after five years. I will return to this in my reporting, but in the meantime here's the link to the EU proposal
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/publications/position-paper-essential-principles-citizens-rights_en
Lisa
Blazing Star asks:
Is this a proposal or an agreement?
Guardian staff It is a proposal. It is a negotiation position.
This proposal will change and there will be much pressure applied on the UK government to change it. At the moment the government is spinning it that the EU must reciprocate. The EU already has tabled an offer (June 12) offering Britons in Europe a better deal. The British government will be under pressure to reciprocate that with clashes anticipated over the role of the ECJ and cut-off date.
Lisa
Lisa
Dannyandro asks:
I’m a resident of Spain, moved here two months after the result of the referendum. Will the EU control my rights looking forward, or will it be the individual country? The case in my instance is Spain. Would I remain to be a UK citizen, or do you believe that I will have to adopt a different nationality? Spain, for example, doesn’t recognise dual nationality.
Guardian staff Hola!
That depends where you live and how you live there. As a Spanish citizen you will, in general, continue to have rights as an EU citizen in any EU country.
However if you live in Britain you will have to apply for "settled status".
There are three time frames for "settled status" set out in the proposal yesterday:
(These are my words, not exactly those in the proposal)
EU citizens here for five years automatically entitled to settled status.
EU citizens who is here before the cut-off date but not yet for five years can stay here to build up their five year qualifying period. (THIS IS YOU)
EU citizens who came here after the as yet unspecified cut-off date won't be kicked out. They will have two years "grace" to work out whether they want to stay long term. If they want to stay then they have to apply under new immigration rules for EU citizens but will not have to leave country to do so.
Hope that helps
Lisa
'The government will be under pressure to redraft this point'
Philip Gallagher asks:
My partner’s daughter is currently studying for her A levels and will be starting university in September 2018. She is currently looking at universities in the Netherlands. What will her rights be, given that she will start studying as a EU citizen, but her citizenship will be revoked once Brexit finishes.
Guardian staff Hello Philip Gallagher (a real name!)
I'm assuming your daughter not a British passport holder and this is why you are concerned.
If so, this is a subject raised by Yvette Cooper yesterday.
The UK's proposal, paragraph 20 states this:
"Settled status is not the same as citizenship - for example, holders of this status do not have a UK passport - but those with settled status and at least six years’ residence may apply for citizenship. Settled status would generally be lost if a person was absent from the UK for more than two years, unless they have strong ties here."
This could mean that students who want to study abroad for more than two years may lose their "settled status".
The government may point out that "strong ties" equates to family ties.
I think the government will be under pressure to redraft this point and others parts of the proposal to cover the many many eventualities that people feel are not specifically covered by the present draft.
Hope this helps,
Lisa
Lisa
Updated
Blazing Star asks:
What is exactly meant by accrued pension?
Guardian staff Hello Blazing Star (again why don't people use their real names here?)
I assume you are referring to this paragraph in the UK's proposal?
"{UK will continue to aggregate periods of relevant insurance, work or residence within the EU accrued before exit to help meet the entitlement conditions for UK contributory benefits and State Pension, even where entitlement to these rights may be exercised after exit;"
This applies to people who have worked in different countries and means they will continue to be able, as they are now under EU law, to draw a pension accrued over time from different states.
Lisa
The billion euro dollar question, from Megalomax:
What happens to any agreement that is reached, if the negotiations as a whole fail?
Guardian staff The government has not given an answer to this question. It is a good one, asked by many.
Lisa
My parents came to the UK from Portugal before the UK was part of the EU (or EEC back then) in 1970 and 1971. They have lived and worked here legally ever since up until they retired a few years ago. They both receive the UK state pension as well as other pensioner benefits. They still have Portuguese passports (they’ve never had British passports). Their children (me and my brother) were born and raised in the UK and have British passports.
Given my parents moved legally to the UK before it joined the euro market are they exempt from these proposals?
Guardian staff Hello Cockandbeaver (again why don't people use their real names on these forums/fora?)
I have done a few stories on people who arrived in the country before Britain joined the EU. But the issue has always been these people are now of the age that they can't easily locate paper work to prove they were living/working here.
I don't know the answer to this question, but in general people who have been here this long will be able to establish rights under different laws.
Did they acquire some paperwork at the time giving the indefinite leave to remain or something like this? If they did it would mean, I imagine, they will be fine.
Under current immigration rules, they can apply for indefinite leave to remain if they have "lived continuously in the UK for at least 20 years" and don't have prison record etc.
Here is the link to the immigration rules an immigration lawyer provided me for this story about Elly Wright, a Dutch woman and widow who arrived in the UK in 1967.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-part-7-other-categories
I hope this helps
Lisa
Updated
'I am sure the 3 million will be calling on them to change on this point'
flatnote (not his/her real name) asks:
UK’s proposal states those who “applied” post-ref will have to re-register...why do they have to re-apply/register if they’ve been already given permanent residence? Isn’t that equivalent to rescinding their status?
And does that mean we have to apply for British citizenship to avoid such hassle?
Guardian staff Hi flatnote - why don't people use their real names on these forums/fora?
To your point. I think the government will come under some pressure to change the proposal to have everyone who applied and got a permanent residency card reapply for "settled status".
At the moment however that is the government's proposal.
The government can argue that it didn't ask people to apply for PR.
EU citizens and many in the media will argue that the government didn't give anyone any comfort that they wouldn't be kicked out. It will also be argued that man big law firms, who work closely with the Home Office, were also advising clients to get permanent residency applications in quickly to avoid being turfed out on Brexit Day.
I am sure the3million, and others who are working with them, including the British in Europe will be calling on the British government to change on this point.
Updated
Alison Wyld asks:
My husband and I are both British citizens, resident full-time in France since 1993. Our youngest son is 15 and holds both British and French nationalities. He has always assumed that he would study in the UK. However my reading of the proposal is that post-Brixit we would be likely to be liable for full international fees. Is this a correct reading of the proposal?
Guardian staff No, the government is proposing that EU citizens coming to study in the UK will continue to be charged "home fees" rather than foreign fees.
the UK will ensure qualifying EU citizens who arrived in the UK before the specified date will continue to be eligible for Higher Education (HE) and Further Education (FE) student loans and ‘home fee’ status in line with persons with settled status in the UK3. Such persons will also be eligible to apply for maintenance support on the same basis they do now;
to help provide certainty for EU students starting courses as we implement the UK’s exit (including those who are not currently living in the UK), we have already confirmed that current EU students and those starting courses at a university or FE institution in the 2017/18 and 2018/19 academic years, will continue to be eligible for student support and home fee status for the duration of their course. We will also ensure that these students have a parallel right to remain in the UK to complete their course;
Lisa
Updated
kitebo asks:
What happens to any EU citizens who have previously lived in the UK, but are currently posted elsewhere for work and may not be able to come back permanently before the Brexit deadline? (think overseas transfers and the like)
Guardian staff Hello Kitebo
The EU proposal is that people like you should be entitled to continue to have your acquired rights as long as you had them in the first place (ie had lived in the UK for five years).
The UK proposal doesn't address this as far as I can see.
Here's the link to the UK proposal.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/safeguarding-the-position-of-eu-citizens-in-the-uk-and-uk-nationals-in-the-eu/the-united-kingdoms-exit-from-the-european-union-safeguarding-the-position-of-eu-citizens-living-in-the-uk-and-uk-nationals-living-in-the-eu
'There are three million different back stories among the three million EU citizens living here'
My wife is Czech, and moved to the UK on 3rd January 2004, with her marriage visa stamped on that day (we were married on November 15th 2003 in the Czech Republic).
So, she moved legally to live with me - I am British - on the two year marriage visa a few months *before* the Czech Republic joined the EU. My question is: is my wife constrained by these regulations under discussion, or is her case different because she moved to the UK before her country became part of the EU?
Guardian staff Hi Peter,
That's an interesting question and a reminder that there are three million different back stories among the three million EU citizens estimated to be living here.
It is also an indication of how many people are experiencing unnecessary anxiety over Britain's prospective departure from the EU.
I can't give you a definitive answer, but I wouldn't think it would be an issue at all that your wife moved here before the accession of her home country to the EU. She would have been an EU citizen from 2004 when the Czech Republic joined the EU and would have started to acquire rights under the freedom of movement rules from that moment. If, in due course, find out that this is not true, come back to me because it will be a story. Save my email address. lisa.ocarroll@theguardian.com
Updated
BernieMat asks:
My partner (not married) is a German national and moved to the UK in October 2014, so she won’t have been in the country for 5 years come the beginning of 2019. What will her status be at the point of leaving the EU? She’s been in full time employment since moving here.
We’re also possibly thinking of moving to Germany next year. If we did, would I, as a British national, be guaranteed rights after the UK has left the EU?
Guardian staff Hi BernieMat,
First of all thanks for coming online to join the Q&A. The subject of EU citizens (Britons included) rights is fairly simple but has been made complicated by yesterday's proposal by the British government.
Under her proposal anyone EU citizen who comes here before the, still-to-be-agreed cut-off date but has not yet been here for five years can stay here to build up their five year qualifying period to remain.
So if and when Britain leaves the EU, your partner should be fine.
As for Britons in Europe - the EU has tabled a deal guaranteeing the rights of Britons in Europe for life. This is far more than has been offered by the British government which, for instance, is proposing a cut-off date for family reunion. In addition, the EU has offered a bonus right, which is continued freedom of movement for Britons working on the continent. This was in response to Britons who pointed out to the European Commission that many of them need to be able to cross borders for meetings, conferences etc as part of their job. They also responded to those who had retired in places like Germany and wanted to retire in, say, France.
So it strikes me if there were two separate deals on offer, the EU one is better. And Britons in Europe will have far more rights than Britons at home. But only time will tell if the British government will move to adopt the EU position.
Lisa
We're underway
As Lisa tackles her first question, here’s some background reading for you.
- EU citizens ‘bitterly disappointed’ with post-Brexit rights offer
- What is on offer for EU nationals after Brexit: the key points
- Brexit: EU citizens living in UK will have to join special ID register
Updated
Post your questions now
The British government have unveiled their package of proposals for EU citizens’ rights in the UK after Brexit.
EU citizens have reacted with disappointment to the government’s plans, calling it a “vague document” which “does not make us feel safe”
The EU has already made a proposal to guarantee all British citizens’ rights in the EU and give them the bonus of continued freedom of movement.
What would you like to ask about Theresa May’s post-Brexit offer to EU citizens? Are there aspects of the proposals that you’re unclear about? How do they compare with the EU’s own negotiating position?
We’ll be joined by Guardian Brexit correspondent Lisa O’Carroll from 11am BST, and you can post your questions for her in the comments section below.
Updated
Hello everyone and thank you for all the questions. We're wrapping up now, but this will be a fascinating record of the anxiety created by Brexit which, I hope, people in the Home Office and the Department of Exiting the European Union will read.
Throughout the last week I have been quite struck by how the British government has been "spinning" their proposal as if they were the first to come up with a plan and secondly that it was "fair and generous". As to the latter, I will leave to others to judge, but the former needs correcting - the EU tabled their offer on 12 June and groups representing Britons in the EU have been very happy with it saying it has provided them with almost everything they asked for here.
Here at the Guardian, we shall continue to report the issues closely, and please do feel free to contact me if there are issues that you think need reporting on. I am on lisa.ocarroll@theguardian.com. Just remember though, that I'm not a lawyer so unfortunately can't give people answers on immigration issues.
Lisa