Edward Snowden avoided saying whether he had read every NSA document he handed over to journalists in an interview with comedian John Oliver on Sunday, as the HBO host posed uncomfortable questions to the NSA whistleblower in Moscow.
When Oliver asked: “How many of those documents have you actually read?” Snowden responded: “I’ve evaluated all the documents that are in the archive.”
When pressed, he said “Well, I do understand what I turned over,” and acknowledged: “I recognize the concern” about whether he knew enough of the documents’ details or technical abilities of journalists to protect certain details.
Oliver then asked Snowden not whether his actions were right or wrong but whether they could be dangerous simply due to the incompetence of others. The Last Week Tonight host claimed that the improper redaction of a document by the New York Times exposed intelligence activity against al-Qaida.
“That is a problem,” Snowden replied.
“Well, that’s a fuck-up,” Oliver shot back, forcing Snowden to agree.
“That is a fuck-up,” Snowden replied. “Those things do happen in reporting. In journalism we have to accept that some mistakes will be made. This is a fundamental concept of liberty.”
“But you have to own that then,” Oliver replied. “You’re giving documents with information that you know could be harmful which could get out there ... We’re not even talking about bad faith, we’re talking about incompetence.”
Seeming surprised by the conversation’s turn, Snowden – whose leaks of thousands of documents to Guardian journalists led to controversy around the world – slowly conceded that his actions carried dangers regardless of his intentions or competence. “But you will never be completely free from risk if you’re free,” he persisted. “The only time you can be free from risk is when you’re in prison.”
The comedian also confronted Snowden with the problem of American apathy towards his actions and the mass surveillance he uncovered. Americans don’t care about invisible NSA overreach in the complex warrens of the internet, Oliver argued.
“It’s like the IT guy comes into your office and it’s like: ‘Oh shit, don’t teach me anything’,” Oliver groaned. “Is it a conversation that we have the capacity to have? Because it’s so complicated.”
But if Americans understood that the hands of the NSA had latched on to their explicit photography, people would riot, Oliver suggested.
“Well, the good news is there’s no program named the ‘dick pic program’,” replied Snowden. “The bad news is they’re still collecting everybody’s information, including your dick pics.”
Snowden linked Americans’ habit of sending each other explicit photos to a broader pitch about courage and liberty: “You shouldn’t change your behavior because a government agency somewhere is doing the wrong thing.”
Oliver also joked with Snowden about whether he misses Hot Pockets and Florida. Snowden said he missed the former very much; of the latter he revealed nothing.
• This article was amended on 6 April 2015. An earlier version stated that Edward Snowden admitted he had not read all the NSA documents he leaked. In fact he did not answer that question.
