Michael, 43, Isle of Man
Occupation Communications director
Voting record Michael, originally from Australia, voted mainly for the centre-right Liberal party there. In the Isle of Man, where he has lived since 2011, he was a member of the Liberal Vannin party, but left “since they’ve become more leftist in their orientation”
Amuse bouche In Australia, he helped prove fraud was taking place in online poker, and was part of the inspiration for the movie Runner Runner starring Ben Affleck and Justin Timberlake
Rena, 36, London
Occupation Social media, in fashion
Voting record Describes herself as left Labour and a socialist. Big fan of Jeremy Corbyn, “massively disappointed in Starmer. Too much of a continuation of what we had before and trying way too hard to appeal to Daily Mail readers”
Amuse bouche Rena once drove a London Underground train from Brixton to King’s Cross. Her tube-driver friend invited her into the cab and let her push the buttons to operate the doors and make the train go
For starters
Michael At first I thought Rena was very nervous, but over the course of the hour or so she opened up. I had a chicken burger and drank just water.
Rena On the way there I was wondering if he’d be wearing a gilet. And he was! I had a cauliflower steak – he probably thought I was such a stereotype – and a tonic water.
The big beef
Rena He said, “Let’s start with the least emotional issue: net zero.” Actually I find the topic of the environment quite emotional. We’re facing mass extinction. The planet will survive, but life on Earth, certainly humanity, won’t. Unless we radically change what we’re doing.
Michael I think of myself as a pretty mainstream sort of guy; I believe in the scientific consensus around climate change. We should reduce our emissions but we probably do not need to have governments take control of the means of production. We talked about the fork on the table: if we produce it in Sunderland or Coventry, that creates carbon emissions that are accounted for in the UK carbon emissions budget. However, if you produce that fork in Mumbai or Beijing, that reduces the carbon emissions of the UK, but not the overall global carbon emissions.
Rena I talked about what a huge impact the fashion industry has on the world. We have enough to clothe not just everyone on Earth, but the next six generations. We need to leave the fossil fuels in the ground and stop producing so much.
Michael She was talking about introducing rationing for clothing. I think the idea is absurd. We need to have a genuine commitment to reducing emissions, rather than this accounting trickery of net zero. It’s great that Elon Musk and big business are coming up with solutions.
Sharing plate
Michael I think we both liked the chocolate-chip ice-cream.
Rena We knew someone in common, a fashion designer on the Isle of Man.
For afters
Michael We also spoke about affirmative action. The person hired should be whoever is the best able, best capable, to do the job. To me, the dismantling of DEI in America is actually compliant with the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Previous administrations have gone along with it because they don’t want a fight, whereas Trump obviously isn’t afraid to have one.
Rena What is happening in America is outrageous, and a distraction tactic – about turning people against each other. I think we should be doing a lot more than affirmative action to radically reshape society and bring people more on a level.
Takeaway
Michael In a culture dominated by progressive/left-liberal views, it is normal for people to challenge me on mine. Whereas I don’t think anyone’s ever done the same for Rena. She is a nice and well-meaning person, but she needs to be more sceptical of everything she reads on the internet. It felt like I was chatting to a 19-year-old undergraduate hard‑left Trotskyist.
Rena As a socialist I always look for common ground with people. But he seemed more interested in focusing on the difference – at best point-scoring and at worst ridiculing what I had to say. I felt like the atmosphere was quite hostile from his end.
Michael We did not swap numbers.
Additional reporting: Kitty Drake
• Michael and Rena ate at Pivot in London WC2
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