Cushla, 49, London
Occupation Works in software
Voting record Cushla, who came to the UK from New Zealand in 1999, voted Labour in the last election. Describes herself as centre-left
Amuse bouche Was the singer in a band in the 90s. She describes them as “Enigma remixed by Einstürzende Neubauten”
Martin, 66, London
Occupation Retired photographer
Voting record Reform in the last election, probably Reform in the next. Describes himself as right-of-centre
Amuse bouche Martin once told the then Prince Charles an anecdote about an encounter with Liam Gallagher in a nightclub toilet. The future king was “completely bemused”
For starters
Martin I was expecting the Guardian to portray me as an old gammon and pair me up with some radical with coloured hair. Then she walked through the door with blue hair, which was rather amusing! She was lovely from the outset – friendly and interesting. We started with some shredded prawn rolls and deep-fried lotus root.
Cushla We were both a little wary. I decided to set him at ease by saying: “Don’t worry, my partner voted for Brexit.” He said: “Why are you here, then? You dine across the divide every evening!” I was expecting a grumpy old man. You can create a two-dimensional stereotype in your brain, and Martin wasn’t that. The place was lovely.
The big beef
Martin I have seen a significant change in crime and general disorder even in the last couple of years – people jumping the barriers in the tube, shoplifting, phone-snatching, seemingly without repercussions. To get a grip on crime, you need to start tackling it at the lower level, otherwise people start thinking they can get away with it.
Cushla Martin is training to become a magistrate and talked about his experience of watching people come in and out of court. I think he’s far more in favour of imprisonment. I countered by saying: let’s look at doing more restorative justice – giving offenders the chance to really encounter the impact of their crimes.
Martin Some people who break the law, generally more white-collar criminals, are not best served by prison. But for severe crimes – violent, sexual – I think people should be kept in a lot longer than they are, away from society. It requires more cross-party planning, though. Investing in a prison is a 10- or 15-year project; governments don’t want to put money into that because they’ll be out of power by the time the prison is built.
Cushla I think I would be a different kind of magistrate, but I say that from a position of hopeful naivety. I know the justice system is broken, that there is insufficient money.
Sharing plate
Martin We shared how much we despised the Tory government after 14 years of incompetence and were incredulous that the Labour party think the way to make things better is to cut disability payments and not revoke the two-child benefit cap.
Cushla It surprised me that we agreed that the cap should be removed. When you’re poor, you’re poor, and the early stages are when the most good – and most damage – can be done.
For afters
Martin Governments across all political parties have consistently promised to tackle illegal immigration and completely failed to do so. It’s a cliche, but you’re letting people into your house without knowing who they are. I’d favour some kind of holding and assessment system – more like the solution Australia came up with where they housed everyone on an island while they processed their applications and determined who should be let in and who shouldn’t.
Cushla I’m frustrated by the tag “illegal”. People are not born “illegal”; we’re creating the conditions for them to become so. I came here on an ancestry visa so I am “legal” by an accident of birth. What makes my accident of birth any better or worse than someone else’s? And given the UK’s history in the world, the UK does actually have a very particular moral obligation, whether it likes it or not.
Takeaways
Martin It was great to meet someone with different views but also to be able to have a conversation, rather than just throw opinions at each other. I think it’s society that demands we take extreme positions, and really, we’re not far away from each other in what we think.
Cushla When people think differently you don’t tend to hear why or get the opportunity to actually challenge your own thinking. What this has taught me is you have to listen to rather than talk.
Additional reporting: Kitty Drake
• Cushla and Martin ate at Xi Home Dumplings Bay in London E1
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