Eli, 41, London
Occupation Owns a kosher food business
Voting record Is not a big voter as it’s “a bit of a waste of time” voting Conservative in his area
Amuse bouche Is a part-time mentalist and does mind-reading shows
Isaac, 22, London
Occupation Meeting and events coordinator, hoping to become a teacher
Voting record Labour in the one election of his adulthood – fat lot of good it did
Amuse bouche Is in a band called Houseplant
For starters
Isaac I had a salt-beef sandwich, with mustard and stuff, beef tacos to start.
Eli I had ox tongue and a beef carpaccio, then a burger and croquettes. And a creme brulee for dessert.
Isaac He was friendly and welcoming. We quickly established a good rapport. He was very open about what his religion means to him and his life.
Eli Overall, I think he was more into listening than pontificating. I’m happy to sit and pontificate for hours. We were similar in that we’re both from backgrounds that are the opposite of diverse. I’m from the Hasidic Jewish community, not really mingling with anyone of the broader community, and he’s from a village in Yorkshire that is mainly white.
The big beef
Isaac He thinks ultra-Orthodox schools get criticised by inspectors because they don’t have regard for protected characteristics – race, disability, homosexuality. They have to make specific mention of these things and accept them as OK. Obviously, they can’t do that – they’re almost puritanical in what they teach.
Eli Our schools don’t have sex education at all. I question the necessity of it. Maybe in the general population, where sex is happening at the age of 14, 15, 16, 17. But, in our community, the mingling of the sexes is not happening. You don’t need to be taught how to use a condom when you’re not having sex. There’s no need to say, “Don’t use the word ‘gay’ as a slur”, when no Jewish boy would ever use the word “gay”. They wouldn’t know what it meant.
Isaac I take his point – that it’s impossible to preach diversity and say we have to be accepting, and then tell Orthodox Jewish schools that they’re not adhering to British values. But a lot of his problem with diversity circles back to saying western beliefs are superior to others. I don’t want to paint him in a bad light, but that is what he said.
Eli While all humans are equal, not all religions are equal. I don’t think it’s hateful or there’s anything wrong with saying that.
Sharing plate
Isaac I got the impression he doesn’t care about climate change. I do. He seems not to care about the emissions that he causes. He doesn’t deny it, but he doesn’t think it’s anything to be concerned about. I came out thinking, “Who am I to question his traditions?” It’s not compatible with my position at all, but ultimately I’ve come to my own conclusions. I haven’t been told by a higher being what to believe. So I found it hard to say: “You’re wrong.”
Eli I don’t think we have that much influence. I’m just a bit sceptical. I think the benefit of using cars far outweighs the benefit of stopping climate change. Let’s say in 100 years there’ll be 7 billion humans instead of 8 billion – OK, so be it. Life will continue. We’ll adapt and probably thrive.
For afters
Isaac We agreed that capitalism is ultimately a good thing, but I feel it’s hard for it to be ethical on the scale it is now, because it’s so engorged. I don’t have any issue with the theory – it raises living standards. But it’s not working right now.
Eli A lot of the ills we blame capitalism for are just reality. If you put someone on a desert island and they don’t fend for themselves, they won’t eat. I’m not entitled to your money just because I’m poor. The eat-the-rich mentality, I’m against. Nobody owes anyone anything.
Isaac He kept asking me what I would do if I was rich. And I was, like, “I don’t know – I don’t expect to be a multimillionaire”. But I would feel obliged to do more for the country that made me.
Takeaways
Isaac He was a really nice man, but I don’t feel as if we would go into any theological discussions.
Eli He was a very nice, well-meaning person – I mean it in a genuine way.
Additional reporting: Kitty Drake
• Eli and Isaac ate at Asado, London E5
Want to meet someone from across the divide? Find out how to take part
