Summary: what we learned
Did we just witness the final Democratic presidential debate of the 2016 cycle? There’s only one way to find out: wait. In any case the ninth episode is in the can, and here is what happened:
- Both Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders came loaded for bear. Within a minute Clinton was firing on Sanders over his perceived failure in a Daily News interview this month to describe how to break up big banks. Sanders hit back at Clinton for taking money from banks.
- Neither candidate sustained a serious loss of poise, although Clinton’s evasions and prevarications in a couple places – on releasing transcripts of her Goldman Sachs speeches, on having supported a $15/hr federal minimum wage and on supporting raising caps on taxable Social Security income – seemed to leave her exposed.
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Clinton tagged Sanders for a spotty legislative record on gun control. “This is a serious difference between us,” she said.
- Sanders mocked Clinton for saying she would release her speech transcripts as soon as everyone else did. “I am going to release all of the transcripts of speeches on Wall St I gave behind closed doors,” he said. “Not for $200,000, not for $200, not for two cents. There were no speeches!”
- Clinton challenged Sanders to point out one instance in which her behavior as a senator had been guided by banking interests and said he could not.
- Sanders accused Clinton of not being an honest broker on Israel/Palestine. “In the long run, if we are ever going to bring peace... we are going to have to treat the Palestinian people with respect and dignity,” he said.
- Clinton partially defended the 1994 crime bill but admitted systemic bias it had propagated. “I want white people to recognize that there is systemic racism. It’s in employment, it’s in housing, but it’s in the criminal justice system also,” she said.
- Clinton smiled broadly, early on, at the crackle on the debate stage and clap-happy energy in the crowd. “I love being in Brooklyn,” she said. “This is great.”
Updated
From the comments / how did they do?
Sanders stumbled on one question at the beginning and knocked it out of the park for the rest. You want fairness in Bernie supporters? There it is. He killed it.
Clinton shows that she is the best candidate once again! She wins, hands down. Bernie is toast.
Clinton should be in the running for an Oscar and not for president. Her fake, syrupy speech at the end was cringeworthy.
Compare closing statements:
Sanders brought the house down with an inspiring call to a better America.
Clinton sounded depressed.
Here’s a point of agreement among observers reviewing the night: naming states they have won is not an effective tactic for the candidates.
Can't believe all of this towel snapping on both sides about who has won what impresses many people watching.#demdebate
— David Axelrod (@davidaxelrod) April 15, 2016
DONT LIST STATES pic.twitter.com/jVkjxofgvH
— John Deeth (@johndeeth) April 15, 2016
And some folks just appreciate a broad Brooklyn accent:
"Yunguh". Bernie makes me laugh.
— Anthony Weiner (@anthonyweiner) April 15, 2016
"We got muhduhed dere," Sanders says of the deep south.
— Maggie Haberman (@maggieNYT) April 15, 2016
Closing statements
Sanders: I grew up in Brooklyn, the son of a penniless immigrant, a proud American. This country gave opportunity. This country has enormous potential if we have the guts to take on Big Money. I disagree with Clinton that you can take money from Wall Street and Super Pacs and then turn around and do what has to be done. If we stand together and not let Trumps of the world divide us we can provide health care, education, clean energy, financial hygiene, fair taxation. Stand up, fight back! Political revolution. Clap clap clap cheer cheer cheer. Bernie! Bernie! chant.
Clinton: I’m grateful I was NY senator. “You took a chance on me and reelected me.” We worked closely together. We took on the challenges of 9/11. We got the money to rebuild New York. Aided first responders construction workers and others who endangered their own health. We created jobs despite George W Bush. We stood up to powerful interests. I’m asking for your support to continue that work together. Knock down the barriers. Not just economic barriers. Racial, gender, homophobic, disability. I am humbly asking for your support. We won’t just make promises, we’ll deliver results! Cheer cheer, clap clap clap. No chanting though.
That’s a wrap. Let’s hear it!
The number of Americans who do not identify as Republican or Democrat is at an all-time high – which might explain why the crowd erupted in cheers when Sanders mentioned independents. In January 2016, polling from Gallup showed 42% of respondents identify as independents, 29% as Democrats and 26% as Republicans.
Continuing on the electability question: Sanders says young people support him because he’s clearly not beholden to special interests.
And Wolf Blitzer cuts them off.
Final pitches are next.
Last commercial break.
Who won it? Who said it best? Who showed the most New York values up there?
Sanders: 'we got murdered' in the deep South
Clinton makes a case for her electability. She says she has 2.3m more votes than senator Sanders and 1.4m more votes than Donald Trump. She says she has a broad-based inclusive coalition across the country and across every race. She says she can “defeat whoever the Republicans end up nominating.”
She says she’s glad young people are involved in politics. “But let me also say... it’s going to be important that we unify the Democratic party when the nomination process has been completed.” She says she knows all about it, referring to 2008.
Dana Bash fights for the mic.
There are three months till the convention. Will you take the fight to the floor if no one has a majority of pledged delegates?
“I think we’re going to win this nomination, to tell you the truth,” Sanders says.
“Senator Clinton cleaned our clock in the deep south. We got murdered there... but you know what, we’re out of the deep South now.... I believe that we’re gonna win this nomination, and I believe that we’re going to obliterate Donald Trump or whoever the nominee is.”
Again folks, the reason Sanders lost in the south is because Clinton does well among black voters. It's not about conservatism.
— Harry Enten (@ForecasterEnten) April 15, 2016
Clinton says that she has a lead in pledged delegates too, wider than Obama’s over her was. Then she names eight states outside the south she won. “We are very confident and optimistic,” she says, but she’s not taking anything for granted. “I’m going to work.” she names the next six states.
Updated
Breaking: NY Post endorses Donald Trump
The Daily New endorsed Clinton. Now the Post endorses Trump:
The Post endorses Donald Trump https://t.co/bGIxG1DnZO pic.twitter.com/1lC8E4Xi89
— New York Post (@nypost) April 15, 2016
What’s their reasoning? We haven’t had time to read it.
Sanders says he has a 100% pro-choice voting record. He says he’ll take on GOP governors trying to restrict a woman’s right to choose and who are discriminating against the LGBT community. He says he would expand funding for Planned Parenthood.
Now the narrators claw back the discussion to questions they want to ask.
One for Sanders: Are you a Democrat?
“Why would I be running for the Democratic nomination for president?” He says. Then he says he runs better nationally against Trump than Clinton. “There are a whole lot of independents in this country.” He says he can reach them.
Clinton is asked about the Merrick Garland nomination to the Supreme Court. She says that the Senate needs to respond.
“It really is an outrage,” Sanders agrees. He talks about 7.5 years of “unbelievable obstructionism” from Republicans.
If elected president, Sanders says, Obama should withdraw the nomination, because we need a justice who will make it crystalclear that he or she will vote to overturn Citizens United.
Big applause.
Clinton says the only people she’d appoint are people who believe that Roe v Wade is settled law and Citizen’s United is overturned.
On that topic...
Clinton says they’ve had eight debates and there has not been one question about a women’s right to choose.
Then she answers the question that has not been asked. She hits Donald Trump by name. “Our rights, our autonomy.”
Bernie’s comments expressing criticism of Israeli defense policy may prove politically costly. Although the crowd in New York expressed cheers, national opinion polling suggests that more Americans sympathize with Israel than the Palestinians, writes Mona Chalabi.
In March 2015, a Pew Research Center study found that 31% of US respondents sympathized with Israel a lot in its dispute with the Palestinians while just 11% sympathize a great deal with the Palestinians.
Those attitudes look very different however depending on an individual’s political identification. Sanders is no doubt resonating with the more left of center strand of Democrat supporters given that 68% of liberal Democrats have at least some sympathy for the Palestinians compared to just 45% of individuals who describe themselves as conservative or moderate Democrats.
Updated
Around in circles on Social Security
Clinton is asked whether she would lift the cap on taxable income that pays into social security, as a way of expanding the social program.
I am going to make the wealthy pay more into social security, she says. But the exact method is unstipulated. Maybe it’s a tax on passive income.
Interesting concept but you didn’t answer the question, Sanders says.
I did! Clinton says. “I did answer the question!”
“Your answer has been the same year after year,” Sanders says. Why not say whether you’ll lift the cap on taxable income?
“We are in vigorous agreement here, senator,” Clinton. Then she says Republicans regard social security as a Ponzi scheme.
“So you are finally in favor of lifting the cap on taxable income and extending and expanding social security?” Sanders says. “IF that is the case, welcome onboard. I am glad you are here.”
“I’ve said the same thing for years. I didn’t say anything different tonight,” she says.
Sanders says, so I’m confused: would you lift the cap? Yes or no?
“I have said yes,” Clinton said. “We are going to extend the trust fund, we’ve got some good ideas.” She’s noncommital.
Updated
Sanders says that Clinton is saying the country does not have the courage to stand up to big money.
“How is it that every other major country manages to guarantee health care?” he says. “I live 50 miles from Canada. It’s not some kind of communist authoritarian country. They’re doing OK,” he says.
Clinton says they have the same goal. “I am so much in favor of supporting president Obama’s signature achievement,” Obamacare, she says – instead of “starting over” as Sanders would.
Updated
The daughter of the school principal murdered at Sandy Hook Elementary School in 2012, tweeted out a response to Bernie Sanders who, when asked if he owed her and other family members of victims an apology, said he didn’t think he did, writes Lois Beckett.
.@BernieSanders YOU DO OWE AN APOLOGY! Your round about answer was just not good enough!
— Erica L Smegielski (@EricaSmegs) April 15, 2016
She also criticized the language Sanders used in talking about her mother’s death.
Dear @BernieSanders - my mother was NOT cattle - she was NOT "slaughtered". Maybe be a bit more sensitive with you language. <3 #DawnsKid
— Erica L Smegielski (@EricaSmegs) April 15, 2016
Sanders defended his support of a federal shield law that makes it more difficult to sue gun manufacturers and dealers over criminal misuse of their guns.
He noted that some of the families had won a victory in court today in their lawsuit against gun companies who made and sold the gun used in the 2012 school shooting. The victory was a very small and technical one. A Connecticut judge ruled the lawsuit can continue, but the families “still have a very tough road ahead of them” one legal expert said. “They’re still a long way from trial.”
They’re back! Sanders is challenged that his education and health care proposals would be too expensive and bust the budget.
He says the last 30 years have seen a massive transfer of wealth. “I am determined to transfer that money back to the working families of this country.”
Clinton: “I absolutely agree with the diagnosis.” We need to do more to get universal health coverage. We have to make college affordable. But... Sanders’ plan for health care and free college would cost the wrong people too much, she says.
Sanders can’t wait to reply.
Last year, European members of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) contributed $234 billion, writes Mona Chalabi.
That same year, the US alone contributed $650 billion. Claims that the burden on the US alone are disproportionate clearly have some basis, even if you view contributions as a share of GDP or on a per capita basis.
Here’s something to watch during the commercial: Video of Clinton trying to escape the question about her Goldman Sachs transcripts.
Second commercial break. How did that section go? Did Clinton handle the Libya challenge well? Sanders had more room to maneuver on Israel than she did. Neither got much into the Syria question.
Sanders is just needling Clinton on Israel, exposing her unwillingness to go one inch out onto the limb of anything that might be taken as criticism of Israel.
“There comes a time if we are going to pursue justice and peace that we are going to have to say that Netanyahu is not right all of the time,” Sanders says.
She replies in the most general of terms: “Nobody is saying that any individual leader is always right but it is a difficult position.”
Clinton takes the question. She says she negotiated the 2012 ceasefire with Hamas and Israel, Egypt, the Palestinian leadership and Arab league.
Israel does not seek this kind of constant attack, she says. “After they had taken these assaults... I don’t know how you run a country when you are under constant threat. Terrorist attack, rockets... you have a right to defend yourself.”
That does not mean that we should not continue to do everything we can to work toward a two-state solution.
She says Yassir Arafat blew a chance at a Palestinian state in negotiations under president Clinton with Ehud Barak. She says there could have been a Palestinian state for 15 years.
Sanders challenges her to answer the “disproportionate” question. She says yes she’ll answer: Hamas dresses like civilians and Gaza is “a terrorist haven that is getting more and more rockets shipped in.”
Sanders said that Clinton’s speech to Aipac did not mention the needs of the Palestinian people. He says there will never peace without an evenhanded role by the United States.
Most substantive debate on Israel/Palestine of the election cycle so far.
Sanders; 'treat the Palestinian people with respect and dignity'
On to Israel. Sanders has called the Israeli response in the 2014 war in Gaza “disproportionate.”
Does he stand by that?
He does.
“Of course Israel has a right not only to defend themselves but to live in peace and security,” he says, as someone who’s lived there.
“I do believe that. Israel... has every right to destroy terrorism. But in Gaza there were 10,000 wounded civilians and 1,500 killed. Was that a disproportionate attack? The answer is I believe it was. As somebody who is 100% pro-Israel. In the long run, if we are ever going to bring peace... we are going to have to treat the Palestinian people with respect and dignity.”
Updated
Clinton stands by her support for a no-fly zone in Syria and accurately says she supported arming the Syria opposition when Obama opposed it.
Sanders is asked about participation in Nato. He says that France provides health care and education and so does England. “I do believe that the countries of Europe should pick up more of a burden for their defense.”
“You gotta ask Trump. All I can tell you is with a huge deficit... yeah, I do think... European countries [who are doin pretty well}.. you know what, you take your own share of the defense burden.”
Clinton ages. Nato allies are required to pay more and they should, she says. But the bigger picture is the durability and importance of the alliance. It must be modernized, she says. In part to face terrorism. Yes make them pay more but that doesn’t mean we leave if they don’t.
If they don’t pay, “I will stay in Nato,” Clinton says, and look for solutions. Nato was in Afghanistan after 9/11, she says. That meant a lot. “Let’s not forget what’s really happening, with Russia being more aggressive... think of how much it would cost if Russia’s aggression were not deterred because Nato is not there on the front lines.”
It’s become normal for the two Democratic candidates to battle over guns in each debate, writes Lois Beckett.
Sanders, who Clinton paints as more pro-gun, has repeatedly touted his low rating from the NRA. But the idea that a Democratic candidate might benefit from focusing on guns is a huge transformation in the American political landscape – especially for Clinton.
For more than a decade, most Democrats on Capitol Hill treated gun policy as the third rail of American politics. Nobody wanted to touch it
President Bill Clinton blamed backlash against the 1994 assault weapons ban for Democrats losing their majority in Congress in the midterm elections. (Whether that is accurate or not is still a matter of debate.)
Today, Obama, whose chief of staff once told his attorney general to “shut the f--- up” about guns, has used his bully pulpit to highlight the goals of the gun control advocacy groups.
And Clinton clearly sees attacks on the gun industry as a winning political strategy.
On to national security and foreign affairs. Question for Clinton: Obama recently said not thinking through Libya was a major mistake of his presidency. Is that on you too?
“I think we did a great deal to help the Libyan people after Ghadafi’s demise,” she says, naming two elections and helping set up the government.
But, Clinton says, we did not provide for sufficient security afterwards.
“We can’t walk away from that. We need to be working with European and Arab partners.”
Sanders says that Clinton “led the effort” for regime change in Libya and “this is the same type of thinking” that led us into Iraq.
“We didn’t think thoroughly about what happens the day after... regime change often has unintended consequences.”
Clinton responds, trying to tie Sanders to Obama’s Libya policy: There was a vote in Senate on question of whether to approach UN security council on Libya question, and Sanders voted for it.
Sanders says Clinton made the charge before “and just repeating it doesn’t make it true.” Sanders says the vote in question was a unanimous consent “do you support Libya moving toward democracy?” Of course he did, but that’s not comparable, he says, to her role.
Clinton kind of hangs Libya policy on the president. “At the end of the day, those are the decisions that are made by the president.”
The Bern's inside reaction to the Libya answer .. pic.twitter.com/RR9SyiJtdg
— weddady (@weddady) April 15, 2016
Updated
Sanders yells something about what you “don’t do” and “what you do do” and it draws some titters in the hall.
don't say "do do" Bernie
— Mona (@MonaChalabi) April 15, 2016
American attitudes to climate change contrast with global opinion, as polling data from Pew Research Center shows:
% who say Earth warming due to human activity
— Jens Manuel Krogstad (@jensmanuel) April 15, 2016
70 Latino
56 Black
44 Whitehttps://t.co/GcH5vPl6rE #DemDebate pic.twitter.com/8YOSGM8Yax
Former Maryland governor and presidential candidate Martin O’Malley joins the call for Clinton to release her Goldman speech transcripts:
Said this in 2012 about @MittRomney's tax returns, I'll say it today: @HillaryClinton should release the Wall Street transcripts #DemDebate
— Martin O'Malley (@MartinOMalley) April 15, 2016
“Here is a real difference,” Sanders says. He accuses Clinton of “incrementalism.” “Those little steps are not enough,” Sanders says. “Not right now, not on climate change.”
He asks her whether she’s in favor of a tax on carbon.
Clinton takes a breath. “I have laid out a set of actions,” she says, and quickly ends up talking about the need for a new supreme court justice.
I don’t take a backseat to your legislation that you’ve introduced that you haven’t been able to get passed.
She says her solution would get the country there faster “without tying us up into political knots.”
Speaking about “systemic racism” in the criminal justice system, Hillary Clinton has recognized the role that the 1994 crime bill might have played in worsening the issue, writes Mona Chalabi.
The bill she mentioned is part of her husband, President Bill Clinton’s, political legacy.
We fact-checked its effects last week and concluded that the black incarceration rate had been steadily climbing since 1980, as successive presidents and Congresses passed laws related to the “war on drugs”. But there is no doubt that the 1994 crime bill made a bad situation, worse. Today, for every 100 black women who are not in jail, there are only 83 black men.
Clinton says her support for fracking globally was a way to get away from coal and to get countries off a dependency on Russian gas. She defends it as a lesser of two evils.
“I don’t think I’ve changed my view on what we need to do.” She says fracking represents a bridge fuel, natural gas, from coal to sustainable energy.
Clinton: “Let’s talk about the global environmental crisis.” She refers to her work as secretary of state to bring China to the table on a greenhouse emissions deal. She praises the Paris deal on global emissions targets and then says she was disappointed Sanders attacked the deal.
Sanders returns the attack, saying Clinton “worked hard to expand fracking around the world” as secretary of state.
Sanders says he has the guts to take on the fossil fuel industry. He implies Clinton does not.
She chuckles. “I”m a little bewildered at how to respond,” she says. She says the Obama administration moved forward on energy in the face of “implacable opposition” from Republicans.
“I really believe the president has done an incredible job against great odds, and deserves to be supported. It’s easy to diagnose the problem, it’s harder to do something,” she says.
That’s applauded.
Is Hillary right that Sanders was “clearly helped by the NRA” in his election to Congress?
In a word, yes, writes Lois Beckett.
In 1990, when Sanders was first elected, the socialist was “he enemy of the NRA’s enemy,” as The Washington Post’s David A Fahrenthold put it.
Compared to the Republican incumbent in the race, who had earned the NRA’s ire over his support for an assault weapon ban, “Bernie Sanders is a more honorable choice for Vermont sportsmen,” Wayne LaPierre wrote in a mailing to thousands of Vermont National Rifle Association members.
Read more about the NRA’s role in the 1990 election here.
They’re back!
Next question is about energy and the environment. Sanders has said you are in the pocket of the fossil fuel industry.
Clinton says let’s talk about the extraordinary threats that climate change poses. “There has never been any doubt that when I was a senator... I tried to get rid of the subsidies for big oil. .. Everyone’s who looked at this independently has said that this is an incorrect, false charge.”
Sanders: “It is one thing to talk about workers... but as I understand it, 43 lobbyists for the fossil fuel industry gave the maximum amount of money to secretary Clinton’s campaign.” He says they thought she was a good bet.
He says climate change is “a global environmental crisis of unprecedented urgency.” He’s applauded. “We have an enemy out there,” he says.
Commercial break. How was that first hour or so? Pretty punchy after all. Clinton seemed to be landing the most punches early, jumping right into an attack on Sanders for, she said, failing to describe the mechanics of breaking up big banks in a Daily News interview this month. They had some snippy back-and-forth about a campaign trail argument over being qualified for office. But then Sanders hit Clinton hard for her paid speeches to big banks – and she stumbled on the question of whether she would release transcripts of those pieces. Then Sanders caught Clinton out on a limb when she claimed always to have been a stalwart proponent of a $15/hr minimum wage.
Sanders is off to the races on criminal justice reform, drug sentencing.
The candidates are agreeing on the need for criminal justice reform.
Clinton: 'I want white people to recognize that there is systemic racism'
Follow up for Clinton: do you regret advocacy for crime bill?
“My husband has apologized,” Clinton says – and he’s the one who signed it. Then she issues a sort-of apology:
“I’m sorry for the consequences that were unintended and that it had a very unfortunate impact on people’s lives. .. I want to focus the attention of our country and to make the changes we need.
I want white people to recognize that there is systemic racism. It’s in employment, it’s in housing, but it’s in the criminal justice system also.
Sanders is asked why he called out Clinton this week for once having described criminals targeted by the 1994 crime bill as “super-predator” criminals.
Because it was a racist term and everybody knew it was a racist term.
It’s worth noting that gun violence deaths in New York are up 15% according to a report published last week by New York’s Division of Criminal Justice Services, writes Guardian US Data Editor Mona Chalabi.
Last year alone, 127 people were killed in the state as a result of gun violence.
Sanders has quoted his D- rating by the National Rifle Association (NRA) who rate politicians according to how sympathetic their voting record is on gun rights. Sanders is right – you can compare other candidates ratings here (Hillary Clinton has an even lower NRA rating: F).
Wolf Blitzer fact-checked Hillary’s claim that Vermont sent more guns per capita to New York than any other state, noting that, overall, only 1.2% of crime guns recovered in New York come from Vermont, writes the Guardian’s Lois Beckett.
“Are you seriously blaming Vermont and implicitly Senator Sanders for New York’s gun violence?” he asked.
“Of course not,” Senator Clinton said, touting her commitment reducing the 33,000 American gun deaths each year.
“I have spent more time than I care to remember being with people who have lost their loved ones,” she said. Mothers of victims of gun violence and police shootings have appeared with Hillary at multiple campaign events.
Clinton takes a question about the 1994 crime bill: net positive or a mistake?
Clinton: It has some positive aspects. Violence against women act. And it also did some things to provide more opportunities. There are some positives.
On the other side, there were some decisions... that now we must revisit. I think that sentences got much too long. “So we have a problem. And the very first speech I gave in this campaign” was about criminal justice reform.
Sanders voted for the crime bill, she says.
Candidates clash over record on guns
Sanders says he’d be best on guns because he comes from a state without gun control but he favors it. He knows both sides of the issue, he says.
Clinton is asked why she put out a statement tracing guns used in New York crimes to Vermont. “Most guns come from out of state,” she says, not really answering.
Then she continues to hammer Sanders on guns, who she accuses of being a “largely, very reliable supporter of the NRA.” “He voted against the Brady bill five times because it had waiting periods in it.”
Sanders responds: “What we need to do, is to do everything we can to make certain that guns do not fall into the hands of people who do not have them,” he says.
“I voted against this gun liability law because I was concerned that in rural areas... if a gun shop owner sells a weapon legally... I don’t think it is appropriate for that owner to be held accountable and to be sued” for gun violence.
Sanders is asked whether he owes the Sandy Hook families an apology for opposing gun manufacturer liability. “I don’t think I owe them an apology... I support them and anyone else who wants the right to sue,” Sanders says. (This year he introduced legislation removing liability protections for gun makers.)
As the candidates debate the potential impact of raising New York’s minimum wage it’s worth looking at this report published by New York’s Department of Labor in February 2016.
It contains some essential information such as this extract:
Raising the minimum wage to $15 would directly benefit 2.3 million workers in New YorkState, or about a quarter of the total workforce. Contrary to what many believe, raising theminimum wage affects more adults – including many who support families – than it does high-school students earning weekend pocket money. Half of all workers earning $15 per hour or less are 35 or older.”
The report concludes that raising the minimum wage would result in $15.7bn being reinvested in the regional economy.
Clinton points out that Sanders voted against the Brady bill and in favor of protections from liability for gun manufacturers. And she accuses him of saying Sandy Hook families did not deserve their day in court.
Then she has a good line about Sanders decrying greed and recklessness on Wall Street, but “What about the greed and recklessness of the gun manufacturers and dealers in America?”
Big big applause. Sustained.
Then Sanders: She did not answer your question. “What she said was totally absurd,” about guns in New York coming from Vermont.
A light moment. Clinton tries to interject.
“Excuse me, I think I’m speaking,” Sanders says. And she smiles at his juggernaut Sanders-ness.
Speaking about the power of Wall Street, Senator Bernie Sanders cited the statistic that the six largest financial institutions in the United States have as much wealth as 58% of the country’s GDP (gross domestic product, a measure of the size of the national economy), writes the Guardian’s Mona Chalabi.
Claims like those are hard to check since they depend on how you define wealth (gross? real? assets?) and GDP (current dollars? which year?) but we’ve tried. In January 2016, Forbes published a list of the 100 largest banks in America.
The six banks with the largest total assets were:
- JPMorgan Chase: $2,417bn
- Bank of America: $2,154bn
- Citigroup: $1,808bn
- Wells Fargo & Company: $1,751bn
- US Bancorp: $416bn
- Bank of New York Mellon: $377bn
Together, those financial institutions have assets totaling $8.9bn – which is 50% of the total US GDP in 2015 (in current dollars) according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. Sanders numbers aren’t too far off.
Updated
Guns.
Clinton is asked whether she blames Vermont for New York’s gun violence.
“Of course not,” Clinton says. “This is a serious difference between us,” she says.
Sanders chuckles in anticipation.
“This is not a laughing matter,” she says. And unloads on him. “I take it very seriously because I have spent too much time with families...
“What we have here is a big difference,” Clinton says.
Sanders is just hammering Clinton for asserting that she has always been for a $15/hr minimum wage. “I think secretary Clinton is confusing a lot of people,” he says.
Now it’s on to guns.
Sanders: 'History outpaced Clinton' on fight for $15
Clinton now on jobs. “I do have a very comprehensive plan.. I think it is important that we do more on manufacturing. ..” She says as secretary of state she increased exports.
“You’ve got to go at this with a sense of how to accomplish the goals we are setting.”
They’ve relaxed in their attack postures, a bit. Although Sanders is pep-pep-peppy about making a point on the tail of Clinton’s latest.
Another Q for Clinton: Why don’t you support a $15 minimum wage?
She says she’d sign a $15/hr law and she’s been supported by unions in the fight for $15.
Sanders gets off a doozy: I bet a lot of people would be surprised to hear that Clinton supported $15! he says.
Then they argue over one another.
Blitzer with a classic: “If you’re both screaming at each other, the viewers won’t be able to hear either of you.”
Secretary Clinton said let’s raise it to $12. There’s a difference. What’s happened is that history has outpaced secretary Clinton.
Big, big, applause for Sanders.
Clinton again asserts she supported the Fight for $15. She’s kind of booed. “IT happens to be true,” she says, rather pitifully.
Updated
Sanders is asked a macroecon 101 question. How do you bring jobs back without raising prices?
He’d raise the minimum wage, he’d say. Then he starts trashing trade agreements.
Sanders is asked about the CEO of Verizon calling his views “contemptible” for his support of communications workers in their strike against the company.
“I would tell the gentleman... to start negotiating with the communication workers of America. And this is a perfect example.. of the kind of corporate greed that is destroying the middle class. This gentleman makes $18m. That’s his salary... he is not investing in the way he should.
Sanders is asked: could he promote American business, given his contempt for corporations?
Sanders denies “contempt”. There are great businesses, Sanders says. “Verizon isn’t one of them.”
Clinton runs from question about speech transcripts
Clinton takes a question about speeches to Goldman Sachs. Why not just release those transcripts?
Clinton says there isn’t an issue. “I did stand up to the banks. I did make it clear that their behavior would not be excused.... if you’re going to look at the problems that actually caused the great recession, you’ve got to looks at the full picture.”
She is ignoring the question.
But what about the transcripts? Dana Bash asks.
She’s cheered for pressing the question.
Clinton: “There are certain expectations when you run for president. This is a new one... but I will tell you this, there is a longstanding expectation that everybody running release their tax returns.”
She’s booed. She refuses to answer the question.
Clinton: “Let’s set the same standard for everybody. When everybody does it, I will do it, thank you.”
Sanders pounces: “Secretary Clinton, you just heard her....
“I am going to release all of the transcripts of speeches on Wall St I gave behind closed doors. Not for $200,000, not for $200, not for two cents. There were no speeches!”
Big cheers.
Sanders says he’ll release his tax returns too, that his wife Jane does the taxes and there’s not much there there.
Wolf Blitzer pushes him: What’s taking so long?
Sanders says he’s been campaigning.
Updated
Sanders mocks Clinton. “Senator Clinton called them out,” he says, rolling his eyes by waving his hands. “Oh my goodness. They must have been really crushed by this. And was that before or after you received huge sums of money by giving speaking engagements?”
Clinton starts to speak and is immediately cheered.
She smiles. “I love being in Brooklyn. This is great,” she says.
Then she calls for penalizing bank executives, not just the institutions, affected by too big to fail.
Sanders gets a tough question. What did Clinton do as a senator that showed banks had influence on her?
He says, sure, I can do that. The obvious response to the Great Recession would have been to pass laws breaking up the banks. Sanders introduced such legislation. And Clinton?
“Secretary Clinton was busy giving speeches to Goldman Sachs for $250,000 a speech,” Sanders says. That line is cheered.
But Clinton’s reply is cheered much more loudly.
“He cannot come up with any example because there is no example.” “I stood up to the behavior of the banks when I was a senator,” she asserts.
Sanders is asked why he would ask banks to break themselves up – he described such a solution in the Daily News interview, saying he would not swing the axe but would take the banks’ advisement.
Sanders says “I don’t need Dodd-Frank to tell me” the banks are too big to fail, because the banks are “based on fraudulent principles.” “We need to break them up.”
Sanders is pressed on how involved the banks would be in their demise.
“What the government should say... the banks themselves can figure out what they want to sell off. I don’t believe it’s appropriate for the department of treasury to make those decisions,” he says.
Pretty hot debate so far. They aren’t playing particularly nice. More like playing to win.
Clinton is talking about a need to introduce stronger banking regulation because “we will not let Wall st wreck Main st again.”
She says she’ll move immediately to break up any financial institution that poses a threat.
Clinton has a pretty solid reply to the attack on super Pacs: “This is an attack on President Obama,” who used them but then supported Dodd-Frank.
“This is a phony attack that is designed to raise questions when there is no evidence or support to undergird” the insinuations, she says.
Clinton says Sanders had called her unqualified. “I’ve been called a lot of things in my life. That was a first.”
As for her judgment, she says, the people of New York elected her twice and president Obama picked her to be secretary of state.
Then Clinton hits Sanders pretty hard, bringing up his 1 April NY Daily News interview in which he said he wasn’t sure about the president’s authority to name banks as too big to fail. She refers to “The kinds of problems he had answering questions about his core issues.”
“Let’s talk about judgment,” Sanders hits back. He says the Iraq war was the worst foreign policy blunder in the recent history of the United States. He says her use of super Pacs showed bad judgment.
“In America we should be thinking big not small,” he says, and calls for universal health care.
First Q is for Sanders. He’s challenged Clinton’s qualifications and credibility. Does she have judgment to be president?
Sanders: I’ve known her 25 years. That was a response to Clinton campaign attacks. That’s what Does secretary Clinton have the experience and intelligence to be a president? Of course she does. But I do question her judgment.”
He mentions her vote for Iraq and trade agreements. “And I question her judgment about running super Pacs collecting tens of millions from special interests.”
Opening statements
Bernie Sanders: Thanks everyone. A year ago we were at 3%. Now a couple polls have us ahead. We won eight of the last nine contests (big cheers: a Sanders crowd?). We got 7m individual contributions averaging $27 apiece (the crowd chants along). We’re doing something very radical: we’re telling the American people the truth (more big cheers). Citizens United bad; campaign finance reform needed; rigged economy bad.
Lots of Sanders love in the hall.
Hillary Clinton: It’s great to be here (whoop-whoop cheers. Maybe the crowd is just hyper). I was honored to be a senator for eight years (yay!) and we faced challenges including 9/11. I was concerned about first responders. We helped Buffalo and Albany win jobs. We worked hard to “really keep New York values at the center of who we are.” “We will celebrity our diversity. We will work together.” Big, bold, progressive goals.
She’s full of energy tonight. New York just does it to a person. Everybody’s jazzzed.
Wolf Blitzer of CNN is laying out ground rules. Errol Louis of NY1 and Dana Bash of CNN will help him ask questions.
Here they are: the candidates take the stage. The crowd is excited. There’s going to be a national anthem. Here’s Morgan James from Broadway to sing it.
Got to meet and chat with @donnabrazile at @CNN headquarters here at the debate. The day keeps getting better! pic.twitter.com/AeRtMnANeF
— morgan james (@morganajames) April 14, 2016
How’s she doing? Here comes the high part. O’er the la-and of the fuh-ree-ee-ee! Crosshairs. She nailed it.
Navy yard debate set to float
Break a bottle on the bow – this debate is about to begin, at 9pm ET (if CNN is to be believed, which, sometimes they’ve fudged the start time). If you’re just joining us, welcome to our live blog coverage of the ninth Democratic presidential debate, staging here in Brooklyn just five days before New York state holds its primary.
To break through to New York Democrats who may long ago have decided to support Hillary Clinton, the former home-state senator, Bernie Sanders may need to go at Clinton directly, perhaps along the lines of attack he’s been trying out on the campaign trail: she takes money from banks and she’s a longtime member of the corrupt political class.
As the frontrunner, Clinton may not need to counterattack so much as to parry Sanders without losing her balance and saying anything that could alienate voters already in her corner (see: Clinton, Bill). But Hillary Clinton has shown an appetite to scrap in the last weeks and there’s no reason to believe she’ll leave it home tonight.
After New York falls on Tuesday, a string of primaries in northeastern states will lead the race to Indiana and then in a headlong rush toward California on 7 June and the nomination. We’re almost there, faithful readers – so, who do you think will turn in the stronger performance tonight? What are you looking to hear? Whom are you rooting for?
Thanks for reading and, as always, don’t be shy: join the fun in the comments!
Just over seven years ago, Marcelo Lucero was attacked by seven teenagers in Patchogue, NY and stabbed to death on the street as the teens reportedly yelled “Fucking Mexicans. Fucking illegals”.
Attacking Latinos was allegedly a regular sport to the local high schoolers, who apparently didn’t know or care that Lucero and the friend who was attacked with him was Ecuadorian; Lucero was the only Latino that the teens killed in their spree of violence.
On Thursday, locals - including many clergy from Long Island and a group of immigrants from Queens – gathered to memorialize Lucero and call for the village to install a memorial on the spot. Two blocks away at a local night club, almost visible from the spot where Lucero died, hundreds of supporters gathered to see Donald Trump speak. Some of them carried anti-immigrant signs, waving them as traffic passed by.
At the vigil for Marcelo Lucero, who was killed in a hate crime in Patchogue, NY where Trump is holding a rally. pic.twitter.com/QlXv2EBKPK
— Megan Carpentier (@megancarpentier) April 14, 2016
As member after member of the clergy took to the microphone on the windswept corner of Railroad Ave and Funaro Street, trains passed by and a helicopter slowly circling over head. Participants were called upon to pray, asked to join in with a rendition of Amazing Grace and called upon to approach their neighbors with love and compassion, not hatred.
The bishop of the Episcopal diocese of Long Island, Reverend Lawrence C Provenzano, told the crowd that it wasn’t Trump who could lead to a new American day: “God’s love and God’s peace will make America great again”, he promised.
Mourners march from the spot where Marcelo Lucero died towards the Trump rally, TV trucks visible. pic.twitter.com/uhzcnHqCRB
— Megan Carpentier (@megancarpentier) April 14, 2016
At the end, vigil-goers gathered around a portrait of Lucero, as his brother Josello – teary-eyed – thanked them for remembering his brother and for coming out year after year. Josello Lucero, who speaks about anti-immigrant violence at schools around the area and started a scholarship in his brother’s name, began to hug friends that he recognized as a group of young immigrants unfurled a banner and walked up the block towards the Trump rally, where the towers from the satellite trucks were visible.
They stood as a silent rebuke to Trump and his followers who, at that point, were all comfortably inside the Emporium nightclub where the topic was reportedly bringing jobs back to Long Island.
Updated
She’s been at this awhile:
#TBT to Hillary in a 2000 debate. Tune in for tonight's #DemDebate at 9:00 p.m. ET.https://t.co/CvuiR7bfch
— Hillary Clinton (@HillaryClinton) April 15, 2016
Sanders tweets about the Tuesday vote:
New York – the entire country will be watching as the results come in on Tuesday. Commit to vote for Bernie today: https://t.co/a0oGdtKUBz
— Bernie Sanders (@BernieSanders) April 15, 2016
The Guardian’s Jana Kasperkevic has been following Fight for $15 protesters on a march across midtown to the GOP gala (see earlier dispatches here). After hours of protesting on an increasing chilly night, many of the marchers have dispersed, Jana reports.
Most of the crowd has dispersed. But a small crowd right in front of Cipriani's is kind of slowing down the traffic on sidewalk
— Jana Kasperkevic (@kasperka) April 15, 2016
Between 8-8.30pm, Jana writes, most of the crowd outside the Grant Hyatt dispersed with just a few dozen protesters remaining. While the New York GOP finance chair said that ten protesters were arrested, an NYPD spokesman told the Guardian that since the event was still ongoing he was unable to confirm any numbers.
Despite standing out for hours, the protesters did not catch a glimpse of Donald Trump, whom they have spent the evening protesting.
What it looks like now https://t.co/urhKpwVGwj
— Jana Kasperkevic (@kasperka) April 15, 2016
Updated
Here’s a taste of some of the peppery rhetoric in the Democratic campaign in the days leading up to tonight’s debate:
Sanders v Clinton: war of words ahead of New York primary – video
Sanders: Clinton is not qualified to be president
Clinton: ‘I’m sick of Sanders’ campaign’s lies’
Chocolate elephants and spirited protests at GOP gala
On the inside of the Republican dinner, where seats cost $1,000 a plate, donors are entering the ballroom to find plates of chocolate and strawberry elephants waiting for them, writes the Guardian’s Alan Yuhas:
Chocolate and strawberry elephants at the Republican dinner for $1,000 a seat. pic.twitter.com/nqx1gmvhxT
— Alan Yuhas (@AlanYuhas) April 14, 2016
The event is off to a late start because of security concerns: dozens of NYPD and secret service officers are roaming the halls and putting guests and press through long security check points.
While reporters were lined up awaiting their own turn through the metal detectors, a band of protesters broke out of the elevators in their hallway and pushed through to the barrier overlooking the lobby.
With a banner declaring Republicans ‘the party of hate’ and shouting ‘presente!’ they called out various groups to rally against the conservative party: black Americans, Hispanic Americans, gay Americans.
Within minutes secret service and hotel security also swept into the already crowded hallway, grabbing the banner of a protester who leaned over the balcony and pulling him back from the edge. More agents arrived to corral the protesters in a circle of linked arms, the amorphous security bubble forcing its way out from the crowd of reporters and off to the lobby.
Then it was back to quiet and waiting for entry to the ballroom and speeches by John Kasich, Ted Cruz and Donald Trump.
What’s the state of the race? Hillary Clinton is ahead and it would take a major acceleration by Bernie Sanders to catch her.
Sanders is estimated to need to capture 56% of all remaining delegates to win the nomination. His supporters might point out he won the last eight states. Her supporters might point out those were demographically favorable to him and included a lot of caucuses and she now appears poised to go on a streak of her own. His supporters might point out that her delegate lead is a lot smaller if you subtract superdelegates. Her supporters might reply that it’s still a lead, it’s growing and by the way she leads by over 2m popular votes too.
You get the idea. Below is a chart comparing the candidates’ delegate riches – and for state-by-state hauls, visit our comprehensive delegate tracker here.
The question this direly worded fundraising email from the Republican National Committee elides is: what if Bernie Sanders is the nominee?
Pretty grim and fatalistic fundraising email from the RNC pic.twitter.com/EzscEuLvPB
— Ben Jacobs (@Bencjacobs) April 14, 2016
A battle to cheer loudest outside debate
Outside the Navy Yard in advance of the debate, two groups of Hillary Clinton supporters and volunteers volleyed chants from either side of the fortress-style entrance, writes the Guardian’s Lauren Gambino:
Yards away, a less organized rally for Bernie Sanders drew honks from a fleet of cars with the group, Black Men for Bernie.
Entourage of Black Men for Bernie cars. pic.twitter.com/e1nwFcuK3b
— Lauren Gambino (@LGamGam) April 14, 2016
On the Clinton side, Jenniece Centrella wore a Hillary campaign button pinned to her beanie. Centrella, an architect who lives in Brooklyn, said she’s worried New York voters might get complacent after multiple polls showed Clinton winning her adopted home state by a wide margin.
Jenniece Centrella says she's voting for the most "qualified" candidate in the race pic.twitter.com/NQvqbznduP
— Lauren Gambino (@LGamGam) April 14, 2016
“We don’t just need to do well, we need to do really well,” she said, shouting over a campaign volunteer banging a plastic cone. “She’s up by over 2 million popular votes. She deserves this. We need a big win in New York.”
On the other side, Jessiah Cox, waved a sign that said “Brooklyn is Berning” and “Talk Bernie to me”.
At just 16, Cox is not eligible to vote in this presidential election, but he still wants to have his say.
“This election is gonna affect my future,” he said. “That’s why I’m here at this rally. I want to be a part of electing the president.”
At 16, Jessiah Cox can't vote yet but that doesn't mean he can't have a say! pic.twitter.com/3d0wmek0TX
— Lauren Gambino (@LGamGam) April 14, 2016
Cox attended Sanders’s rally in Washington Square Park last night, and said he left inspired.
“He’s so genuine,” Cox gushed. “As a young black man, I feel he’s the one who will genuinely help us.”
Hello, and welcome to our live-wire coverage of the ninth Democratic presidential debate. Tonight your blog is parked in the Brooklyn Navy Yard – building 269 to be precise – and as obsolete shipyards go, it’s a beaut:
Good place for a debate. pic.twitter.com/N5nBYPkTnf
— Tom McCarthy (@TeeMcSee) April 14, 2016
They made ships here for 150 years, and if the business at hand were not to keep up with the cut and thrust onstage, we couldn’t see not taking up the local site guide on its invitation to visit the dry dock that has been in operation since before the civil war or the 24-acre navy hospital campus “that is virtually frozen in time”. Definitely the coolest debate venue since they parked that Air Force One behind the stage at the Reagan Library.
Which candidate will leave here with full sails? (Boats built here must not have unfurled until they got south of the harbor, but you catch the drift.) Vermont senator Bernie Sanders and former secretary of state Hillary Clinton are scheduled to take the stage at 9pm ET.
Much is being made of a supposed uptick in the rhetorical temper of the race in the weeks before the New York primary on Tuesday. There was a kerfuffle about who’s qualified to be president, Sanders has been hitting Clinton for taking hundreds of thousands of dollars for speeches to banks [Clarification: that’s per speech], and Clinton has gone after Sanders on guns and foreign policy acumen.
We may be imagining it, but the last two dozen or so times we did this, counting the Republican ones, the action on stage has seemed to have a way of failing to live up to the pre-bout hype. (One memorable exception being Marco Rubio’s last couple debates, in which he and Ted Cruz took turns throwing haymakers at Donald Trump.)
That’s not to downplay the significance of what we could see tonight. According to most counters and analysts, if Sanders doesn’t break through in New York next week, he could slide and bump through a thicket of upcoming north-eastern states – Maryland, Delaware, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania and Connecticut – without gaining the traction he needs to challenge the frontrunner for the nomination.
So it’s Sanders’ night to make an irresistible case and Clinton’s night to control the lead she has long enjoyed. Thank you for following along here, and as usual, please jump into the comments with the full force of your insight, wit and wisdom.
Now if you’ll excuse us for a moment ...
Will not abandon #DemDebate duties ... pic.twitter.com/JMqDKhYlzo
— Lauren Gambino (@LGamGam) April 14, 2016
Updated
This was an interesting debate.
A few quick thoughts: 1) Sanders effectively brought attention to Clinton not answering to the questions. He did this in a matter-of-fact way. 2) Clinton looks bad on the GS transcripts. 3) Clinton seems all over the place and really dishonest about Obama. She refers to him when it is convenient; blames it when it is not. 4) Each candidate had different approaches to the debate. Clinton seems as though she is fighting for her life; Sanders seem almost relaxed, making his points with a lot of self-confidence. 5) Sanders seems perfectly competent and well versed in foreign policy issues. We will see how the Israel discussion plays out.
I wonder how the media will spin this: will they anoint Clinton or try to give an honest account of the differences?