Protecting women in custody should be prioritised when placing transgender prisoners, the justice secretary has told the Guardian, criticising the safeguarding failures that led to Karen White being transferred to a female prison.
David Gauke said cases of prisoners presenting themselves as transgender needed to be handled sensitively but added that White should never have been put in a women’s jail. He insisted the case was not the result of wider systemic failings.
White, a convicted paedophile, entered the UK prison system as transgender on remand for grievous bodily harm, burglary, multiple rapes and other sexual offences against women. In September last year, she was transferred to a women’s prison where she sexually assaulted two other prisoners.
Asked whether the sensitive nature of what can be a contentious issue was preventing officials from challenging transgender cases in prison, Gauke said: “I stress that point, that we have to ensure that women in prison get the protection that they should do. That does have to be the priority.
“We also do need to be sensitive to genuine cases and we have cases in the past of transgender prisoners who have committed suicide, these are cases that should be dealt with sensitively.
“The challenge is to ensure those cases are dealt with sensitively but when it comes down to it, putting someone like Karen White in a female prison is the wrong course of action and shouldn’t have happened, and puts women prisoners at risk in a way that shouldn’t be acceptable.”
However, Gauke said he did not think the White case was the result of a “systemic failure”.
The transgender rights debate has become particularly toxic but in White’s case both sides were united in the view that mistakes had been made. Jenny-Anne Bishop, from the transgender rights group Transforum, said the board responsible for placing prisoners should have taken into account all of White’s offending history but failed to do so.
A government survey puts the number of transgender prisoners in England and Wales at 125, which is likely to be an underestimate.
In a wide-ranging interview, Gauke suggested the release of the Islamist preacher Anjem Choudary must be accepted and the public should be reassured they will be protected; revealed he was closely looking at the Scottish model of introducing a presumption against short sentences of 12 months or less; and insisted prisoners must be treated as human beings and in an “era of populism” the justice system in England and Wales must be preserved.
Gauke has faced a series of highly critical prison inspection reports since becoming justice secretary in January. The have included four urgent notification processes, the most serious course of action available to the chief inspector of prisons. Gauke has also had to deal with significant criticism of changes made to the probation sector by Chris Grayling when he was in the role.
Asked whether he was comfortable with the automatic release of Choudary half-way through a five-year sentence on Friday, particularly given the focus on some of the weaknesses in the justice system, Gauke said: “I believe in the rule of law, the system has to apply and someone who has served their sentence or served the appropriate amount, part, of their sentence in custody, then law should take its course.
“But I also think the public, maybe particularly in a case like this, need to know that just because somebody has left prison that the state is still there providing the protection that is necessary.
“It’s perfectly reasonable for the public to look at someone like Choudary and want to know, is he in a position to go out and do what he’s done before? I don’t want to get too drawn into the measures and licence conditions for Choudary, but the state is able to take action to provide that public protection and provide that reassurance.”
Despite previously held different roles as chief secretary to the Treasury and work and pensions secretary, Gauke, as a former solicitor has a particular interest in justice.
“We’ve got an outstanding justice system,” he said. “Our judiciary are respected around the world. It is a key part of what we are as a country. It’s an area where there is a strong political consensus behind that and perhaps in an era of populism it’s important that we preserve those qualities.”
Gauke said he was aware that some of his proposals on prison reform will be met with accusations of “soft justice” – the roll-out of phones to prisoners was met with some ire from some parts of the media – and he attempted to deal with such claims head on in his speech to the Conservative party conference.
But, he said, he had not received as much criticism from within his party as expected.
“In terms of this particular issue, one of the strongest voices for a rehabilitative approach to criminal justice is Iain Duncan Smith, largely seen as being on the right, he’s been progressive advocate for saying ‘we need to turn lives round, we need to give people opportunities, that prisons should provide a second chance’.
“By and large, there are exceptions, but by and large the response of my colleagues has been ‘this is absolutely right this should be part of what we’re doing’.”
Asked whether it was a challenge to generate sympathy among the electorate to supporting prisoners, particularly vulnerable ones, Gauke said: “They are human beings. I understand part of the criminal justice system does have to be about punishment. I would make the case that the vast majority of prisoners leave prison and go back into society. We share that society with them and what sort of people do we want them to be.”
Gauke has previously said short prison sentences of less than 12 months do not rehabilitate prisoners and should be a last resort. He said he was closely looking at Scotland, where there is a presumption against sentences of less than a year.
“But we have to consider our options on that and look at what’s happening with sentences, what are the hard cases, what are the difficult ones, are there circumstances that the judiciary or magistrates need that option. But I’m certainly interested in seeing what we need to do and I’m not ruling anything out at this point.”
As of 30 June, there were 5,290 prisoners (about 7% of total prison population in England and Wales) serving sentences of less than 12 months, so reducing this cohort would only go some way to alleviating the overall pressures of an overcrowded estate.
Ultimately faced with £800m more in budget cuts, Gauke, especially as a former Treasury person, knows his department faces a huge financial challenge. He is unwilling to make that case publicly for more cash, unlike some of his cabinet colleagues including the defence secretary, Gavin Williamson, or Jeremy Hunt towards the end of his time as health secretary.
“The best way of ensuring that we get what we need is by demonstrating we have a clear plan, we are thinking strategically and ensuring every pound of taxpayer’s money is spent wisely and my focus is ensuring we do that. And in that context, I will make my case about what I think this department needs,” said Gauke.
• This article was amended on 22 October 2018 to remove an incorrect reference to Chris Grayling being Gauke’s predecessor.
