Malcolm Turnbull has warned that the fight against terrorism is “not a bravado issue” and emphasised the importance of safeguarding the rule of law in Australia.
The communications minister and former Liberal party leader said terrorists “want to destroy us because they hate the rule of law” and he argued a controversial proposal to strip sole nationals of their Australian citizenship raised “very big legal and practical issues”.
Turnbull’s comments provide an insight into the Coalition’s internal dispute over how to deal with the citizenship of Australians suspected of involvement in terrorism. The government has agreed to introduce a bill to give the immigration minister, Peter Dutton, the power to revoke the citizenship of dual nationals linked to terrorism, but deferred a decision on powers to deal with sole nationals after a cabinet backlash last week. Turnbull was among those cabinet critics.
“What is the essence of a democracy? Some people would say a democracy is one where the majority get to do what they want. That’s not a democracy. That’s a tyranny,” Turnbull said at a media conference in Queanbeyan on Wednesday.
“The genius of a democracy governed by the rule of law, our democracy, is that it both empowers the majority through the ballot box, and constrains the majority, its government, so that it is bound by law.”
Turnbull added: “Why does Daesh [another term for Islamic State] hate us? Why do they want to kill us? Why do they want to kill, destroy our society? They want to destroy us because they hate the rule of law.
“They hate the fact that the government has to stand up – can be stood up by citizens and held to account. They hate the fact that we have freedom of speech. They hate the fact that we are a free society governed by law not just by whatever the direction of one religious leader is from time to time.
“Our freedoms are absolutely critical and it is important that we have a debate about this but I just want to be very clear … some people like to suggest that some people are tougher on terrorism or tougher on national security than others.
“Let me say this to you – honest people, knowledgeable people, really well informed people can have very different views about what the right measures are on national security and have very different views about the right balance between, say, citizenship and national security.”
Turnbull emphasised that the government’s policy, as stated by Dutton and Tony Abbott, was that Australia would not render any citizen stateless, in accordance with international obligations.
When asked about people who could potentially apply for citizenship from another country, Turnbull said the government had released a discussion paper to trigger a national conversation. “I think there are very big legal and practical issues,” he said.
Turnbull said the citizenship of an American citizen born in the US could not be revoked without their consent, whereas a minister in Canada had powers under new laws to revoke citizenship “but they have to be convicted of an offence”. He noted that the home secretary in the UK did have “enormous discretion”.
“All of these countries have got different laws and have come to different conclusions but each of them are equally passionately committed to the fight against terrorism, committed to the national security of their own country. So I think what we need to do is to make sure that we get the balance right but in terms of national security and counterterrorism laws we have to do – and this is the government’s commitment – it is not good enough that laws simply be tough. This is not a bravado issue; they’ve got to be the right laws,” the minister said.
Government divisions on the sole-nationals issue have been in the spotlight after detailed exchanges from last week’s cabinet meeting were leaked to the media.
The prime minister has since issued a general warning to ministers that they faced political and personal consequences for leaking.
The industry minister, Ian Macfarlane, called on cabinet leakers to quit the frontbench.
“In the end if people can’t abide by the confidentiality of the cabinet room then they should leave the cabinet. That should be their decision. But where it becomes apparent then obviously the prime minister has made it clear he’d take action,” he said.
Macfarlane said he did not leak the contents of last week’s cabinet meeting - but he appeared to vouch for the veracity of the reported divisions when he added: “There has certainly been some very accurate statements made in newspapers in relation to the discussions that were had in cabinet.”
The foreign affairs minister, Julie Bishop, said the leak “absolutely did not come from me” and although it was not the first cabinet in Australian history to have had leaks “this was particularly disappointing because it went into such detail”.
“My position is that there are a number of legal consequences that have to be worked through [on the citizenship issues]. That’s why there should be a public discussion about this,” Bishop, the deputy Liberal party leader, told the ABC on Wednesday.
Turnbull, when asked about the same issue at a media conference called to discuss the national broadband network, said: “I don’t leak from cabinet meetings and I didn’t leak from the last one either.”
The small business minister, Bruce Billson, said being a cabinet member was a privilege and people who leaked from it were letting the country down.
The opposition leader, Bill Shorten, said the government had yet to produce the legislation relating to dual nationals. He said Labor would look constructively at the details before formulating a position.
Shorten said the government liked to talk about national security but “clearly they’re divided within their ranks”.
Despite the absence of legislation and the timing yet to be set for parliamentary debate, Dutton tweeted a meme on Tuesday that said “dual nationals who engage in terrorism can lose their citizenship”.
Aust citizenship is an extraordinary privilege, & comes with many privileges which must not be abused. RT to support pic.twitter.com/oedDy9VzQU
— Peter Dutton (@PeterDutton_MP) June 2, 2015
Abbott said “the clear policy of this government” was “to strip citizenship from terrorists with dual nationality” and he would like to know what the opposition’s policy was.
In question time on Tuesday, the prime minister said the government also wanted to have a debate “about aspects of citizenship” because citizenship “not only has rights, it also has responsibilities”.
“Let me make this simple point,” Abbott said. “Anyone who raised a gun or a knife to Australians simply because of who we are and the values we have has forfeited his or her right to consider themselves one of us. That is the fundamental point.”
