Evening summary
- Boris Johnson has ramped up speculation that he is planning to bypass a law that stops the UK from crashing out of the EU without a deal. Johnson was speaking in a long interview with Andrew Marr in which he also rejected claims that the language he was using against his Brexit opponents would incite violence. See 11.44am for a full summary.
- Arlene Foster, the DUP leader, has said that her party would consider agreeing to the Irish backstop provided it were time limited. (See 6.12pm.) In the past the DUP has said that even a temporary version of the backstop would make a Brexit deal unacceptable.
- Downing Street has categorically denied a claim that Johnson groped the journalist Charlotte Edwardes. In a column in the Sunday Times, Edwardes said the incident took place at the offices of the Spectator magazine in London shortly after Johnson became editor in 1999. After the lunch she spoke to the young woman sitting on the other side of Johnson who said the same thing had happened to her. Describing what happened, Edwardes said:
I’m seated on Johnson’s right; on his left is a young woman I know. More wine is poured; more wine is drunk. Under the table I feel Johnson’s hand on my thigh. He gives it a squeeze. His hand is high up my leg and he has enough inner flesh beneath his fingers to make me sit suddenly upright.
A Number 10 spokesperson said: “The allegation is untrue.” Sources said the quote related to the allegation that Johnson put his hand on Edwardes’ knee. Sources close to Johnson are said to be furious at the claim, which has been described as “bollocks” and “nonsense”. Dawn Butler, the shadow equalities minister, said Johnson had serious questions to answer.
This is a shocking, but sadly all too familiar, story.
— (((Dawn Butler MP))) (@DawnButlerBrent) September 29, 2019
What is it about powerful men feeling entitled to harass women?
Boris Johnson has serious questions to answer. #Marr https://t.co/NT7dxrY9t5
- Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of the Commons, has said the EU “can’t last long” in its current form. (See 4.30pm.)
- Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, has suggested that delaying Brexit could cause more damage than a no-deal one on 31 October. (See 3.45pm.)
- David Gauke has rejected the idea that former Tory rebels colluded with foreign powers to block a no-deal Brexit, and called on No 10 to stop using the tactics and language of Donald Trump. As Bloomberg’s Kitty Donaldson reports, Dominic Grieve, one of those Tory rebels, has said he has received a death threat following the publication of Number 10’s “collusion” allegation in the Mail on Sunday.
NEW: Dominic Grieve tells Bloomberg News he's received a death threat this afternoon following the Mail on Sunday's story that @BorisJohnson's office is investigating #ForeignCollusion with the EU over the Benn Acthttps://t.co/oxXq0yLDQ2
— Kitty Donaldson (@kitty_donaldson) September 29, 2019
That’s all from me for today.
Thanks for the comments.
Updated
DUP would consider agreeing to time-limited backstop, says Arlene Foster
Here is the quote from Arlene Foster, the DUP leader, telling a fringe at the party conference that her party would consider agreeing to a time-limited Irish backstop. (See 5.20pm.) Foster said:
In terms of the time-limited backstop, can I remind you what Leo Varadkar thinks of the time-limited backstop - he says it is not a backstop at all.
And so in terms of the time-limited backstop we have said in the past it is something we would look at.
I don’t think it is something that Leo Varadkar would look at, but certainly if a time-limited backstop was on offer it is something that we would look at but I don’t believe it is at this present moment in time.
But Foster also said that she was adamant that Northern Ireland had to “leave on the same terms as the rest of the United Kingdom” in relation to customs arrangements. She said:
We cannot have internal customs borders within the United Kingdom ... it has constitutional implications as well as economic implications.
Actually when you think of the amount of trade we does east-west and west-east it completely blows out of the water the North-South trade.
I’m not saying the north-south trade is not important - it is of course important - but our east-west trade is much more important.
Rees-Mogg says Farage is 'in many ways admirable' - despite PM's team saying he's not fit and proper person
In the official text of the speech he delivered earlier, Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of the Commons, is quoted as saying:
On the right we have Nigel Farage – supported by the finest politician we have sent to Brussels – my sister. However we must not delude ourselves into thinking that a vote for the Brexit party does anything other than increase the risk of Brexit being cancelled entirely.
But when he was delivering his speech, Rees-Mogg including four words before Farage’s name not in the original text. I have flagged them up in bold.
On the right we have the in many ways admirable Nigel Farage ...
Rees-Mogg is an arch Brexiter and so it is not surprising that he thinks like this. And of course his sister, Annunziata, is a Brexit party MEP.
But it is definitely not the approved line from Tory HQ. Earlier this month a senior party source briefed journalists that Farage and his sidekick Arron Banks were not “fit and proper persons and ... should never be allowed anywhere near government.”
Talking of the DUP, Arlene Foster, its leader, has been speaking at a fringe meeting at the conference. Here are some excerpts.
These are from the Spectator’s James Forsyth, Business Insider’s Adam Payne, Politico Europe’s Charlie Cooper, and the Sun’s Kate Ferguson.
In answer to @denisstaunton, Arlene Foster says can’t accept any customs border within the U.K. on both economic and constitutional grounds
— James Forsyth (@JGForsyth) September 29, 2019
Arlene Foster rules out regulatory checks between NI and GB on anything other than agricultural goods. Also very clear she could not accept dual customs status for Northern Ireland, with it in both the U.K. and EU customs unions
— James Forsyth (@JGForsyth) September 29, 2019
Key quote: Arlene Foster says she wouldn’t accept GB-NI regulatory checks beyond agriculture
— Adam Payne (@adampayne26) September 29, 2019
“We've been very clear about all of that. Some people don't understand that when we set out our position, we meant it. The whole raison d'etre of the DUP is the union.”
Arlene Foster says in response to @kateferguson4 that the DUP would look at a time limited backstop but she doesn’t think Leo Varadkar would ever entertain the idea
— James Forsyth (@JGForsyth) September 29, 2019
On proposal of a backstop time limit Foster says: “if a time-limited backstop was on offer it is something we would look at. I don’t believe it is at this moment in time.”
— Charlie Cooper (@CharlieCooper8) September 29, 2019
Says Varadkar has made clear he would not accept it
DUP leader Arlene Foster says they will back Boris if he faces a confidence vote in Parliament. She says “putting Jeremy Corbyn into government is not something the DUP will ever be accused of” #CPC19
— Kate Ferguson (@kateferguson4) September 29, 2019
Fascinating @Policy_Exchange fringe with Arlene Foster. For those looking for a Brexit compromise, clear the one thing that the DUP is prepared to consider is a time limit on the backstop. But as Foster admitted, Dublin/EU unlikely to entertain that
— James Forsyth (@JGForsyth) September 29, 2019
Updated
Brexit deal can pass Commons if DUP back it, says Rees-Mogg
In the Q&A in the conference hall this afternoon the panel was also asked why there were grounds to think a Brexit deal might get through parliament now, when MPs voted Theresa May’s down three times. Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of the Commons, replied:
I think the mood has changed in the country at large, that everybody now wants to leave and start talking about other things. And I think that’s true in the House of Commons as well. And I think if the DUP are happy with the deal, there will be very few Conservatives, including those who are without the whip, who are against a deal. And at that point there are a number of people in other parties who think that, yes, we must now just finish this.
Here is Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s first minister and the SNP leader, has posted this in response to the Matthew d’Ancona tweet I featured earlier. (See 2.04pm.)
The condescension of elements of the Westminster commentariat knows no bounds at times. @theSNP is perfectly capable of thinking through the implications of various scenarios. https://t.co/aGYsaFpiou
— Nicola Sturgeon (@NicolaSturgeon) September 29, 2019
EU 'can't last long' in its current form, Rees-Mogg tells Tories
In between their speeches Michael Gove, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Steve Barclay answered a few questions on stage posed by a moderator, the Telegraph’s Brexit editor Dia Chakravarty.
The most interesting answers came when Chakravarty asked if they thought that other countries would follow the UK and leave the EU.
- Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of the Commons, said he did not think the EU would survive long in its current form. In response to the question about whether other countries would leave, he replied:
Well, they would if they’d got any sense, wouldn’t they?
Rees-Mogg went on:
I think the problems with the euro are so deep-seated that the current Euro project, European Union project, can’t last long into the future. But things often last longer than one anticipates.
- Michael Gove said he did not expect any other countries to join the UK in leaving. He replied:
I don’t think so ... I think there are particular reasons why Britain was right to leave the European Union at this time, and I respect the right of other nations to forge their own future. So, my own hunch is Britain will leave, other countries will stay, but 10, 15, 20 years on, I think we may see a very different European Union from the one we have now.
For Gove, this marks something a U-turn. In 2016, during the EU referendum, he gave a speech saying Brexit could lead to the “democratic liberation of a whole continent” as other countries followed the UK and left.
Brexit secretary Steve Barclay urges people to embrace opportunities of Brexit
Steve Barclay, the Brexit secretary, has just finished his speech. Here are the main points.
- Barclay urged people to embrace the opportunities of Brexit.
It’s time to stop apologising for Brexit, and to unleash the opportunities it offers.
We can source products that we do not produce at a better price.
Too often the EU restricts access to markets that want to trade with us…
Like the foods that we do not grow, or the goods that we do not specialise in producing,
With new trade deals with other countries we can help the developing world through trade, rather than handing out aid.
To empower countries through free trade is the essence of being Conservative, and an important reason why I am a Brexiteer.
- He urged EU states to match the UK in terms of offering to protect the right of nationals after Brexit.
We value the contribution you make to our country and are pleased that you have chosen to make your home here.
We have guaranteed your rights to live, work and stay in the UK with full citizens rights for as long as you choose.
Now it is time for the EU to match that guarantee.
- He claimed delaying Brexit would cost the UK £1bn a month.
And it has a massive financial cost - in extra payments to the EU.
It costs an extra £1bn in payments to Brussels every month we delay.
This is misleading because, if the UK were to get a deal with a transition period until the end of next year, which is its stated goal, the UK would continue to make those payments.
MPs holding voters 'in contempt', Jacob Rees-Mogg claims
Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of the Commons, told the conference in his speech that MPs were holding voters in contempt. He said:
The people have spoken. Ladies and gentlemen, you have spoken. We are not your leaders, we are your servants, and it is our responsibility to do what you have willed. Parliament has promised to do it, over 80 per cent of members of parliament were elected on a pledge to respect the result.
The sovereignty of parliament does not come to Parliament out of a void. It comes to parliament from the people. Yet this parliament is now holding the people in contempt. They are holding you in contempt.
Hence we must have a general election. It is time for a new parliament. A new egg must be laid that will not be addled. We trust the people. Our opponents do not.
Gove suggests delaying Brexit would cause more damage than no deal on 31 October
Gove said in his speech that the UK must leave the EU on 31 October.
If necessary, the UK will leave without a deal, he said.
The level of our preparations has accelerated massively since Boris became Prime Minister.
Of course we cannot anticipate every risk and cannot guarantee against some turbulence.
Gove also claimed that, if the UK has to leave the EU without a deal, the difficulties caused “will pass”. But delaying Brexit would be more damaging, he implied.
But if we can’t [get a deal], then leave we must.
Because, while the difficulties caused by leaving without a deal will pass, the damage to our democracy in not getting Brexit done would endure, and resound, for much longer.
Our democracy is precious - and it depends on people trusting us as politicians - when we say we will put our trust in them.
Updated
Gove says Tories are 'the real people's party'
Gove says getting Brexit done will allow the Tories to focus on “what matters”, like the NHS, education and crime. He goes on:
These are the people’s priorities.
They are our priorities.
That is why we are the real people’s party.
Gove says he trust Boris Johnson to deliver
Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister responsible for no-deal planning, is speaking now.
He starts with the message of the conference.
17.4 million people voted to leave the European Union in June 2016.
More than have ever voted for any party, or any policy, in our country’s history.
But three years on that democratic verdict has not been honoured.
We cannot allow this division and delay to continue.
We must Get. Brexit. Done.
Joking about his relationship with Boris Johnson (Gove scuppered his leadership challenge in 2016), he says Johnson “delivers”.
Now, I’ve known Boris for more than thirty years.
And while we haven’t always agreed on everything, let me tell you this.
Boris is brave, he is determined, he loves this country, and he delivers.
And that is because Boris is an optimist.
Raab says the government is committed to a UK version of the Magnitsky law - named after calls for legislation to impose sanctions on those involved in the death of the whistleblower Sergei Magnitsky in a Russian jail.
We will relish not shrink from our duty to take a leading role in bringing the perpetrators of the worst injustices to account.
Whether it’s ensuring the release of the two Reuters journalists jailed in Myanmar for reporting on the plight of the Rohingya refugees or bringing war criminals to trial from Yugoslavia to the Democratic Republic of Congo.
And when we leave the EU, we’ll be able to do even more.
So, conference, I can tell you today that we will bring into force a UK Magnitsky law, to place visa bans and asset freezes on those individuals deemed responsible for serious human rights abuses, including torture.
Raab says the UK must stand up for freedom around the world.
We must never forget the lessons of history.
And we must keep the flame of freedom alive in the darkest corners of the bleakest jails.
For those struggling for the basic liberties we take for granted…
The right you jealously guard – here, this week – to debate, to have your say, to hold your politicians to account.
So, we won’t look the other way, when the people of Hong Kong are beaten indiscriminately on commuter trains for exercising the right to peaceful protest.
We won’t stand idly by whilst journalists are jailed or beaten up for criticising the despotic regime of Nicolas Maduro in Venezuela.
And we will never rest until all those bearing UK nationality, detained on a cruel whim in Iran, are free to re-join their loved ones at home.
Raab says the British are fed up with EU leaders disrespecting their prime ministers.
I think the British people have had more than enough of EU leaders disrespecting British prime ministers.
So, we’ll strive in good faith for a deal.
But if the EU spurn the opportunity for a win-win deal,
We will leave at the end of October … no ifs, no buts.
We want to stay good European neighbours.
But we’ll be free to chart our own course, as masters of our own destiny – at home and abroad, with a more liberal and energetic approach to free trade.
(Raab does speculate about what EU leaders may feel about British politicians disrespecting them.)
Dominic Raab's speech
In the conference Dominic Raab, the foreign secretary, is speaking now.
He starts with that is almost a good joke.
The truth is we Brits get a warm welcome almost everywhere in world.
Ok, maybe not in Luxembourg.
There is one opinion poll out today, from Opinium. It gives the Conservatives a very healthy 12-point lead.
Westminster voting intention:
— Britain Elects (@britainelects) September 28, 2019
CON: 36% (-1)
LAB: 24% (+2)
LDEM: 20% (+3)
BREX: 11% (-1)
via @OpiniumResearch
Chgs. w/ 20 Sep
And these are from Matthew Goodwin, the academic and national populism expert who likes reminding liberals that the have underestimated the potency of populist messages.
Twitter has spent a month laughing at Johnson & Cummings
— Matthew Goodwin (@GoodwinMJ) September 28, 2019
Yet here's another (12 pt) poll lead for the Conservatives
Of the last 40 polls Labour have not led in 1
Their last lead outside the margin of error was in July
What if the strategy is working?
https://t.co/vvhh6wmNXr
— Matthew Goodwin (@GoodwinMJ) September 28, 2019
Thousands of protesters marched through Manchester braving the biblical rain to demonstrate against the government.
Amongst the sea of umbrella’s there were drum beats, hooting and chants of “Boris, Out, Out, Out!”.
The march named Reject Brexit, Defend Our Democracy- a collaboration between Manchester for Europe and March for Change - set off from the city’s Whitworth Park before heading up Oxford Road and eventually snaking its way to the Manchester Central Convention Complex where the conference is being held.
Security remained high with police are forming a “ring of steel” around the conference venue, while hundreds of officers surrounded protestors and blocked off roads leading to the convention centre.
Fewer than 50% of Tory members are confident Boris Johnson will achieve Brexit by 31 October, survey finds
Boris Johnson sounded confident in his Andrew Marr interview that the UK will leave the EU on 31 October. Even though parliament has supposedly legislated to rule out a no-deal Brexit at the end of next month, Johnson said “of course” the government would be able to bypass this law - although he would not say how. (See 11.44am.)
But fewer than half of Conservative party members share Johnson’s confidence, according to a survey for the ConservativeHome website. Its surveys are seen as a reasonably reliable guide to grassroots Tory opinion and this one found just 48% of members saying they think the UK will leave the EU by 31 October. Another 32% said they did not think the UK would leave by that date, and the others said they did not know - which means they also don’t share Johnson’s confidence.
Last month 78% of Tory members thought Johnson would achieve his Brexit deadline, ConservativeHome found.
Matt Hancock, the health secretary, was also speaking at a lunchtime fringe. My colleague Peter Walker was there, and has posted some highlights.
Health secretary Matt Hancock tells a Tory conference fringe event he is “very seriously” looking at the idea of making vaccinations compulsory for children, and has taken advice on now this could be done.
— Peter Walker (@peterwalker99) September 29, 2019
Matt Hancock says the amount of physical activity done by the population is “not really something the government can change” beyond encouragement. That, I’m afraid, is simply not true - the built environment, notably on transport, is utterly central to activity decisions.
— Peter Walker (@peterwalker99) September 29, 2019
(Peter, author of the acclaimed Bike Nation: How Cycling Can Save the World, is something of an expert on this.)
Quite disappointing to hear this, as earlier at this Tory conference fringe event, Hancock was very effusive about preventative public health, noting this was the only route to making the NHS sustainable.
— Peter Walker (@peterwalker99) September 29, 2019
At this Tory fringe event, Matt Hancock has been quizzed about the “surrender bill” language and has, again, very vigorously defended it. I really get the feeling that Hancock has convinced himself this is all fine. It doesn’t seem to be an act.
— Peter Walker (@peterwalker99) September 29, 2019
Clarification: I quizzed Hancock about this after his speech and he says he really didn’t mean to say that - got his words garbled off the cuff. He DOES believe governments have a role to play in physical activity levels. Phew.
— Peter Walker (@peterwalker99) September 29, 2019
Matt Hancock, the health secretary, and Jonathan Ashworth, his Labour shadow, have been arguing about the new hospital announcement on Twitter today.
After Boris Johnson’s Marr interview, Ashworth posted this.
Boris Johnson just said building 40 new hospitals in fact it’s 6 hospital reconfigurations. And under the Tories:
— Jonathan Ashworth (@JonAshworth) September 29, 2019
🚨Cuts have left hospitals with a £6 billion backlog of repairs.
🚨 Less than 3% of previously announced capital investment has actually been delivered since 2017.
Hancock claimed this meant Labour was opposing the plan.
I’m aghast @JonAshworth has come out AGAINST my announcement of the go-ahead for 40 new hospitals.
— Matt Hancock (@MattHancock) September 29, 2019
Another reason only the @Conservatives can be trusted on the #NHS
Ashworth responded.
It’s 6 hospital reconfigurations not 40 new hospitals. Are you guaranteeing every single one of 21 hospitals(including in Johnson’s marginal seat)invited to access £100 million to develop plans will be rebuilt? If so where’s £ coming from? And why no mental health trust included? https://t.co/V8wlSygsNx
— Jonathan Ashworth (@JonAshworth) September 29, 2019
James Cleverly, the Conservative party chairman, is addressing the conference now. It has just formally opened.
According to a news release put out this, he will say that the party has formally signed the armed forces covenant. The news release says:
The party will now offer reduced price conference passes to veterans, proactively advertise employment vacancies to the veteran community and strive to accommodate the training and deployment commitments of reserves. The party already offers concessionary membership rates to serving or former members of the armed forces.
This builds on the work of the Conservative government to support the armed forces. Since 2010, the Conservatives have enshrined the armed forces covenant in law, launched the first ever UK-wide veterans strategy and awarded ID cards to all veterans, making it easier for ex-forces personnel to access specialist support.
Matthew d”Ancona from Tortoise says he thinks Boris Johnson was hinting in his Andrew Marr interview that the Tories could end up backing a motion of no confidence in the government this week.
1. KLAXON ELEPHANT TRAP WARNING: if the SNP tables a vote of no confidence this week - as Johnson has allowed minority Opposition parties to do - it will be doing exactly, to the letter, what he is hoping for...
— Matthew d'Ancona (@MatthewdAncona) September 29, 2019
Marr thinks d’Ancona may be right.
This is also where I think we may be going, and part of the point of my interview- eg asking the PM whether or not he WANTED to lose a VONC. I hope the camera caught his grin! https://t.co/WEG3wDuEsg
— Andrew Marr (@AndrewMarr9) September 29, 2019
David Gauke, a former cabinet minister, has rejected the idea that ex-Tory rebels colluded with foreign powers to block a no-deal Brexit and warned No 10 to stop using the tactics and language of Donald Trump. As my colleagues Rowena Mason and Peter Walker report, the former justice secretary, who had the whip withdrawn by Boris Johnson, responded with dismay to an anonymous briefing from someone in Downing Street that he and others had help from EU countries in drafting the Benn Act to block a no-deal exit on 31 October. In an interview with Sky’s Sophy Ridge, Gauke said:
It’s not true, and I think here is a very good example of a No 10 briefing, using the word ‘collusion’ – and that’s a very potent word in itself – providing no evidence that there was anything like help with the drafting from foreign countries.
Here is the story in full.
The North Manchester general hospital is one of 21 NHS trust getting seed funding for redevelopment under the Tory hospital building plan announced today. On his visit to the hospital Boris Johnson said:
Talking to the doctors, the nurses, the staff, they’re doing an amazing job but they’re doing it in buildings that were built in 1870, so this is a plan that will cost about £500m, we’re embarking on that plan now, we’re giving the go-ahead to them to embark on it.
They’ll have to take down those old Victorian buildings, they’ll have to build a fantastic new site. It will cost a lot of money but we’ve got to start.
He also insisted that this was new money.
It is new money. It is bright, shiny, new money coming out of the Treasury in a great geyser.
Boris Johnson visited North Manchester general hospital this morning to coincide with his hospital building announcement. (See 9.14am.)
The Brexit party has a double-page advert in today’s Sunday Telegraph saying that the Tories face a choice between “clean-break Brexit or surrender”. It goes on:
Democracy, or betrayal of 17.4m leave voters. It is time for Conservatives to make up their minds. If the Tories are not ready to deliver a clean-break Brexit - we in the Brexit party are.
This is from Matthew Goodwin, an academic specialising in populism.
"Clean Break or a Bad Deal" -the full page ad from Nigel Farage
— Matthew Goodwin (@GoodwinMJ) September 29, 2019
In the past week, Farage's #Brexit Party averaged 14%
That's higher than UKIP in 2015 & a serious threat to Boris Johnson's hopes for a majority
Ht @GawainTowler pic.twitter.com/TbejKF6b1g
In his Andrew Marr interview this morning Boris Johnson ruled out an electoral pact with the Brexit party. (See 11.44am.) According to the Spectator’s James Forsyth, in his blog about the interview, Johnson believes such a pact might be counterproductive.
[Johnson] was clear that the Tories won’t be fighting that election in a pact with Nigel Farage and the Brexit Party. Earlier this week, Boris Johnson told Tory MPs that the party would lose as much support as it would gain from such an agreement and I really don’t see him shifting on this question.
From the Daily Mail’s Jason Groves
Boris Johnson will not attend Jacques Chirac's funeral in Paris tomorrow. Risk of disrupting the PM's schedule at critical time seen as greater than risk of backlash from the French at perceived snub
— Jason Groves (@JasonGroves1) September 29, 2019
The mayor of Greater Manchester has condemned an “unacceptable” banner which threatened Tories as they arrived in the city for their party conference, the Press Association reports. The banner said “130,000 killed under Tory rule, time to level the playing field”. Andy Burnham, a former Labour cabinet minister and now mayor of Greater Manchester, said the sign was “completely unacceptable” and was being removed. Tory councillor Kerry Boyd spotted the offensive sign in Manchester as she went for a pre-conference run and described it as “utterly vile”.
Neve have I felt more apprehensive than seeing this in my morning run pre #CPC19. Does this classify as death/terrorist threat? Utterly vile. pic.twitter.com/3beha85IaW
— Kerry Boyd (@KerryJaneBoyd) September 29, 2019
Priti Patel rules out letting Shamima Begum return to UK
Priti Patel, the home secretary, has ruled out allowing the former Islamic State member Shamima Begum to return to the UK, the Sun reports.
As the Press Associaton reports, Begum, now 19, left Britain to join IS in Syria in 2015. She later married Dutch-born Yago Riedijk and spent more than three years living under the group’s rule. But in an interview last week Begum pleaded to be allowed to return home, saying her only role in the so-called caliphate was to “make babies”.
According to the Sun, Patel’s response to this request was: “No way, no way”. Patel told the paper:
Our job is to keep our country safe.
We don’t need people who have done harm and left our country to be part of a death cult and to perpetrate that ideology.
We cannot have people who would do us harm allowed to enter our country - and that includes this woman.
Everything I see in terms of security and intelligence, I am simply not willing to allow anybody who has been an active supporter or campaigner for IS in this country.
Boris Johnson's interview with Andrew Marr - Summary and analysis
Here are the main points from Boris Johnson’s interview.
- Boris Johnson rejected claims that the language he was using against his Brexit opponents would incite violence. (See 10.19am.)
- He said he was “sorry” if the Labour MP Paula Sherriff took his reply “humbug” in the Commons last week to refer to the concerns she was raising about the safety of MPs. That was not what he intended, he said. He explained:
My use of the word humbug was in the context of people trying to prevent me - us - from using the word ‘surrender’.
When Andrew Marr pointed out that Sherriff’s question was very specific, Johnson replied:
In that case, that was a total misunderstanding and that was wrong.
I can certainly say sorry for the misunderstanding, but my intention was to refuse to be crowded out from using the word ‘surrender’ to describe the Surrender Act.
You can read Sherriff’s question to Johnson in full here. It is easy to see why MPs did reasonably conclude the “humbug” comment was seen as a response to what she was saying about threats.
- Johnson claimed that he had no interest to declare when he was London mayor in relation to his friend Jennifer Arcuri’s firm getting sponsorship from a mayoral organisation. (See 10.42am.)
- He claimed that the Arcuri allegations about him were politically motivated and driven by critics opposed to Brexit. (See 10.42am.)
- He said “of course” it would be possible for the UK to leave the EU without a Brexit deal on 31 October. Asked if this would be possible, despite the passing of the Benn Act, which says the PM has to request an extension if there has been no deal passed by 19 October and and no Commons vote for no deal, Johnson said “of course”. Marr asked:
Can we still leave the EU on October 31 without a deal?
Johnson replied:
Of course we can.
-
Johnson dismissed suggestions that he might resign rather than request on article 50 extension. This would be one way of honouring his promise not to request an extension in the event of no deal being agreed. But, asked if he would do this, he replied:
I have undertaken to lead the party and my country at a difficult time, and I’m going to continue to do that. I believe it’s my responsibility to do that and I think that it’s our job to get Brexit done on October 31 and to move the country on.
- He refused to say whether he had asked another EU country to veto an article 50 extension as a means of ensuring the UK has to leave on 31 October. When asked if he had done this, he replied:
I’m not going to get into my discussions with any other EU head of state about the negotiations, because they are extremely interesting but they are also delicate.
Johnson also refused to comment on whether the government was planning various other strategies to get around the Benn Act: using EU law, using the Civil Contingencies Act or getting someone to submit the extension request on his behalf.
- Johnson claimed that other EU states did not want the UK to stay in. He said:
It is certainly true that other EU countries also don’t want this thing to keep dragging on. They don’t want the UK to remain in the EU, truculent and mutinous and in a limbo, and not wishing to co-operate in the way that they would like.
- He claimed there was a “good chance” of getting a Brexit deal. But he did not explain what it might entail.
- He described the supreme court ruling as “peculiar”, hinting it might lead to pressure for the court to change. He said:
I think that the judgment by the 11 justices was certainly novel and peculiar in the sense that they went against the Master of the Rolls and the Lord Chief Justice in extending the remit of the court into what was, I think, obviously a political question.
The consequences of that decision are going to be working their way through for quite some time.
You are now already starting to see a backlash of people questioning the implications of that decision.
In the Sunday Telegraph this morning Johnson goes slightly further, hinting that there could be a case for having justices approved by parliament. See 9am. We are still a long way off from ministers saying the supreme court should contain an equal number of remain-voting and leave-voting judges, but Johnson’s comments, and the comments of Geoffrey Cox, the attorney general on this on Wednesday, suggest that in time the argument might gain traction.
- Johnson did not deny a Sunday Times report saying he has apologised to the Queen. Asked about this, he replied:“I’m not going to go into my conversations with Her Majesty.”
- He ruled out an electoral pact with the Brexit party. Asked about this, he said:
The Conservative party is the oldest, greatest political party in the world, it’s a big, broad church and we don’t do deals with other parties.
Presumably he was referring to electoral pacts, not deals. Only this decade the Conservative party has formed a coalition with one other party, and a confidence and supply agreement with another. (In the past it has formed electoral pacts too - for example, in 1918.)
- He rejected the suggestion that the claim he has announced plans to build 40 new hospitals is misleading. Asked about this, he replied:
There is a long-term infrastructure plan for 40 hospitals. There is going to be seed funding for all 40. Six are going to start immediately ... that is all going ahead and I’m incredibly proud of that - but there are then 34 more that are coming down the track.
- He claimed that Labour’s plan to cut working hours announced last week would harm the poor. He said:
They’ve decided that they want a four-day [working] week which would hit the poorest.
Labour said last week it would try to bring the average number of hours worked per week down to 32 over a decade, without workers losing pay. Interestingly, there is some evidence that the public do not accept this claim and will believe what Johnson is saying about the plan. This is from a report in the Times (paywall) on Saturday which wrote up the findings of a focus group in Stoke featuring people who all voted Labour in 2015. It said:
Tony, who works at B&Q, was concerned the plan to cut the working week could put jobs at risk because it would increase costs to business. Sarah said that if she worked fewer hours she would get less pay, which she couldn’t afford.
No one thought the plan was a good idea but most thought it had been proposed simply to win their votes. “It’s unworkable,” said one. “It’s just idealistic nonsense, isn’t it? What Labour are trying to do is hit on the things that bother people. If you work in a school, Ofsted bothers you so they say they’ll get rid of it.”
Updated
Boris Johnson claims he had 'no interest to declare' in relation to dealings with Jennifer Arcuri
And this is what Boris Johnson said about the allegations about his relationship with Jennifer Arcuri.
- Johnson claimed that he had no interest to declare in this case. The main allegations is that Arcuri’s company received a total of £11,500 in sponsorship from a mayoral organisation when she was a close friend of Johnson’s. She was also allowed to join two mayoral trade missions despite initially being told her firm did not qualify. Andrew Marr put it to Johnson that he was bound at mayor by a code of conduct saying he was not meant to take decisions to gain benefits for family or friends. Asked if he had declared his friendship with Arcuri, Johnson at first just said he was “very proud” of everything that he did as mayor and that “everything was done in accordance with the code ... and everything was done with full propriety”. Asked why he did not declare this interest, he replied:
There was no interest to declare.
This could be significant because it puts pressure on Johnson to explain the full nature of his full relationship with Arcuri.
- Johnson claimed that the Arcuri allegations about him were politically motivated and driven by critics opposed to Brexit. Marr asked if Johnson was embarrassed by the story, saying Johnson did not look embarrassed. Johnson replied:
I tell you what I really think is going on. I really think that people can feel this country is approaching an important moment of choice, and we have to get on and we have to deliver Brexit, and I think that there is a large constituency, in parliament and elsewhere, who do want to frustrate that objective. And, rightly or wrongly, they see me as the person most likely to deliver that objective. And I’m going to get on and do it.
When Marr asked Johnson if he was saying this attack was politically motivated, Johnson replied:
I think you’ve got to be realistic if you’re in my position. You’ve got to expect a lot of shot and shell.
Johnson made this claim even though the original Arcuri story was broken by the Sunday Times, which backed Brexit in the 2016 referendum and which is owned by Rupert Murdoch, whose flagship tabloid paper, the Sun, is now one of the most fervent newspaper supporters of Johnson and his Brexit strategy.
Boris Johnson rejects claim his language incites violence, saying he has been 'model of restraint'
Here is a summary of what Boris Johnson said about his use of language in the interview.
- Boris Johnson rejected claims that the language he was using against his Brexit opponents would incite violence. He was asked if he accepted what Amber Rudd, the former work and pensions secretary, said in an interview with the Evening Standard last week. Andrew Marr quoted Rudd as saying:
The sort of language I’m afraid we’ve seen more and more of coming out from Number 10 does incite violence ... The casual approach to safety of MPs and their staff is immoral.
Johnson replied: “Well, obviously I don’t agree with Amber.” He repeatedly tried to justify the use of the term “surrender act” by referring to what the Benn Act does (see 9am for an explanation as to why his claims are misleading) and he defended politicians’ right to use military metaphors. He said:
I think you will find that the speeches of most politicians for centuries have been studded with the use of military metaphor.
When Marr put it to him that there was something dark and “very 1930s” about the Mail on Sunday splash (see 9am), which accuses Johnson’s critics of “collusion”, using a word used by a Number 10 source in a statement to the paper, Johnson said he did not agree with Marr’s description. But he accepted there was a need for people to calm down. He said:
I certainly think everybody should calm down.
Asked if that included him, he replied:
I think I’ve been a model of restraint.
Updated
Johnson says he will not bring back Theresa May’s withdrawal agreement.
And that’s it. The interview is over.
I will post a summary soon.
Q: The headlines say you are promising 40 new hospitals. But it is only six, isn’t it?
Johnson said not accept that.
He criticises Labour, saying their plans for a four-day week would hit the poorest most.
- Johnson claims Labour’s plans to cut average working hours to 32 hours a week over a decade would hit the poorest most.
Johnson: there was 'nothing to declare' regarding links with Jennifer Arcuri
Q: As mayor of London you signed a declaration saying you would not take decisions to benefit family or friends. Did you declare your interest with Jennifer Arcuri?
Johnson says he did everything properly.
Q: Did you declare an interest?
Johnson says there was nothing to declare.
He criticises the current major, Sadiq Khan, saying he spends too much money on press officers.
He says there are people who want to frustrate Brexit. He says these people are attacking him because he is the person who wants to deliver Brexit.
You have got to expect “shock and shell”, he says.
- Johnson implies the criticism of him over his relationship with Jennifer Acruri is motivated by opposition to his stance on Brexit.
Updated
Johnson says the supreme court decision was extraordinary.
He says he thinks it will have long-lasting implications.
Johnson refuses to confirm that he apologised to the Queen.
Johnson dismisses suggestions he might resign as alternative to seeking article 50 extension
Q: Would you resign and get someone else to request an extension?
Johnson implies he would not. He was elected to take this party forward, he says.
- Johnson dismisses suggestions he might resign as alternative to seeking article 50 extension.
Johnson refuses to say if he's asked another EU leader to veto Brexit extension
Q: How would you get round the Benn Act. By using EU law?
Johnson says he will not discuss hypotheticals.
Q: What about using civil contingency powers? Or getting someone else to request the extension?
Johnson will not say.
Q: Have you asked another EU leader to veto an extension?
Johnson says he will not discuss his conversations with other EU leader.
- Johnson refuses to say if he has asked another EU leader to veto a Brexit extension.
Johnson claims there is 'good chance' of getting Brexit deal
Q: What are the chances of a no-deal Brexit?
Johnson says this has not been helped by the surrender act.
He says, if Brussels thinks Brexit will be delayed, they have less incentive to negotiate.
But he thinks there is a “good chance” of getting a deal, he says.
Johnson rules out electoral pact with Brexit party
Q: Would you ever do a deal with Nigel Farage’s Brexit party?
No, says Johnson. He says the Conservative party is the oldest and most successful party in the world. “It’s a big, broad church,” he says.
We don’t do deals with other parties.
Updated
Q: If there is a confidence vote next week, do you want to win or lose?
Johnson says it is surprising that Labour won’t vote for an election.
Q: If you lost the vote, you would get your election.
Johnson says people need a parliament devoted to their interests, a Conservative government with a one nation agenda.
Q: So if you lose, you will get an election.
Johnson says the most honourable thing for the opposition to do would be to hold an election.
Johnson says, if Paula Sherriff thinks his phrase “humbug” applied to what she was saying about threats to MPs, he is sorry because that was not his intent. He was referring to the argument about the Benn Act.
Johnson claims he has been 'model of restraint' in his use of language
Q: Do you not accept that you have been loose and dangerous in your use of language?
Johnson says the surrender act would compel the PM to write a letter to the EU keeping the UK in the EU. And the EU would decide the terms of exit.
He says using martial metaphors is standard.
He tried to tell a joke about John Major saying when you have your back against the wall, you turn and fight. He says politicians have used fighting metaphors for years.
Q: Look at the Mail on Sunday splash. (See 9am). There is a darkness about this language.
Johnson repeats his point about the surrender act.
Q: Don’t you think you should calm down.
Johnson says everyone should calm down.
Q: Including you.
Johnson replies:
I think I’ve been a model of restraint.
Johnson says, whether people voted leave or remain, they want Brexit done.
Johnson defends his use of 'surrender act' and denies his language incites violence
Q: You said the best way to minimise threats is to get Brexit done. That sounds like a threat.
Johnson denies this.
He says the Brexit discussion has gone on for too long.
He says the best wasy to get this is to get Brexit done by 31 October and move the country forward. “That is what we are going to do.”
Q: You seem to be trying to whip things up.
No, says Johnson.
He says people feel their vote has not been respected.
He says we need to get this done.
Q: Amber Rudd says your language incites violence.
Johnson says he does not accept that.
He says people are indignant because they know what the surrender act is trying to do.
Updated
Boris Johnson's interview with Andrew Marr
Boris Johnson is on the Andrew Marr Show now.
Boris Johnson says he did not know Jo Cox.
Q: Why did you say what Paula Sherriff was saying about threats to MPs being humbug?
Johnson says he was not trying to make light of threats to MPs. But he was trying to make the point that politicians should be able to use “tried and tested” words, like surrender, to talk about legislation.
Q: She was not talking about that. She was talking about death threats.
Johnson says he loathes threats to MPs.
Here is my colleague John Harris on the Conservative party’s conference slogan.
It's some token of our bonkers politics that the hoardings at Conservative conference advertise four things they've completely failed to do. pic.twitter.com/2fZrAgprRv
— John Harris (@johnharris1969) September 28, 2019
The Conservatives claim their hospital plans announced today amount to “the biggest hospital building programme in a generation”. There are more details in the party’s news release here.
Here is an extract.
As part of the health infrastructure plan, 40 new hospitals will be built across England over the next decade. Six of the hospital builds are getting the full go-ahead today, and a further twenty one new build projects (consisting of thirty four new hospitals in total) are receiving seed funding to kick start their schemes. Other projects will be able to bid into this and other future waves too.
The package includes £200m to replace MRI, CT scanners and breast cancer screening equipment, so that no scanner in the NHS is more than 10 years old. And the government is today confirming that the Department of Health and Social Care will receive a new multi-year capital settlement at the next capital review to develop capacity, plan effectively, get better value for money and deliver on the commitments we have already made.
The six hospitals getting the full go-ahead today are: Whipps Cross Hospital, Epsom and St Helier Trust, West Hertfordshire Trust, Princess Alexandra Hospital Trust, University Hospitals of Leicester Trust, and Leeds Teaching Hospitals Trust. These projects are being funded with a £2.7bn cash injection of brand new money from the Treasury.
The projects receiving the £100 million seed funding include Addenbrookes hospital in Cambridge, the Queen’s Medical Centre in Nottingham and the North Manchester General Hospital.
Boris Johnson suggests his MP critics had EU help drafting Benn Act to stop no deal
In an interview with the Sunday Telegraph this morning Boris Johnson claims that he is leading a “a sensible, moderate, one nation” Conservative party. One of the interesting questions to be explored this week is whether that is compatible with also being a party hell-bent on delivering Brexit, possibly the hardest version available.
But a more pressing question, of course, is how the prime minister expects to deliver Brexit when no deal with the EU has emerged, he has lost his majority in parliament and MPs have legislated to try to block a no-deal Brexit on 31 October.
This morning’s papers, which are full of interviews and briefings to mark the opening today’s Conservative party conference in Manchester, shed very little light on what Johnson’s Brexit strategy might be. But they are illuminating about his election strategy, which as we know involves depicting himself as the champion of the people, trying to deliver Brexit in the face of opposition from parliament. And one headline pushes this proposition almost to the point of absurdity.
Here are the main points.
- Boris Johnson has suggested that the EU was involved in helping his Brexit critics draw up the Benn Act, the legislation designed to stop a no-deal Brexit on 31 October. He raised the idea discreetly in an interview with Edward Malnick in the Sunday Telegraph (paywall), saying:
In the case of the surrender act, we don’t know whether or not for instance, the European Union has been consulted on on the surrender act, or European Commission lawyers.
But a turbo-charged version of the same allegation has made the Mail on Sunday splash.
🚨NO10 LAUNCH ‘FOREIGN COLLUSION’ PROBE INTO REMAINER PLOTTING WITH FRANCE 🚨 pic.twitter.com/ejj7XfIKOM
— MoS_Politics (@MoS_Politics) September 28, 2019
In his story, the Mail on Sunday’s Glen Owen writes:
Downing Street has launched a major investigation into alleged links between foreign governments and the MPs behind the ‘Surrender Act’ which could force Boris Johnson to delay Brexit, The Mail on Sunday can reveal.
Sources said No 10 took the unprecedented action after officials received intelligence that the MPs, including former cabinet minister Oliver Letwin, had received help drafting the Bill from members of the French government and the European Union ...
Last night, a senior No 10 source said: ‘The government is working on extensive investigations into Dominic Grieve, Oliver Letwin and Hilary Benn [who tabled the Bill] and their involvement with foreign powers and the funding of their activities. Governments have proper rules for drafting legislation, but nobody knows what organisations are pulling these strings.
‘We will demand the disclosure of all details of their personal communications with other states. The drafting of primary legislation in collusion with foreign powers must be fully investigated.’
The Mail on Sunday does not produce evidence to back up this claim. But the main point is that there is nothing unusual about British politicians discussing Brexit with their EU counterparts. The leading Tory Brexiters Owen Paterson and Iain Duncan Smith had their own meeting with Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, earlier this year, but no one started talking about “collusion”. And, given that the Benn Act requires the PM to request an article 50 extension under certain conditions, it would be surprising if those behind it did not make some inquiries as to what length extension might be acceptable to the EU. The act settled on three months.
- Johnson has escalated his criticism of the Benn Act, calling it not just the “surrender” act but the “abject capitulation act”. The term surrender act has been condemned on the grounds that, by depicting the act’s backers as people collaborating with an enemy, it could incite violence against them. But in his Sunday Telegraph interview (paywall) Johnson was unrepentant about the phrase. He said:
I won’t be bullied off use of that term. It seems to me a perfectly humdrum political metaphor.
Actually, when you read the the text of the Benn Act, the ‘abject capitulation act’ might be just as good a term for it, because it would attempt to force the prime minister of the UK to write a letter requesting to stay in the EU, and it would ... allow the EU to decide how long we would stay on in the EU.
If that isn’t an attempt of the wholesale destruction of a country’s negotiating position, I don’t know what is.
So I think my language was really quite moderate.
As explained before, Johnson’s account of what the act does is not correct. The act says, if the PM fails to pass a Brexit deal by 19 October, and if MPs have not voted for no deal, he must request a three-month extension. But it does not say the UK has to accept any length of extension it is offered by the EU. If the EU did offer a longer or shorter extension, under the legislation the PM could either accept it, or refer it to the Commons for MPs to decide. So the UK would have a choice. HuffPost’s Paul Waugh says if any surrendering is involved, it is not to the EU, but to parliament. (And, remember: Brexit was supposed to be about restoring the sovereignty of parliament.)
What the Benn Act really does is fetter a PM's power to decide how he wants to engage with the EU. You may think that's a good or bad thing, but if any 'surrendering' is going on it's the 'surrender' by a PM *to Parliament*.
— Paul Waugh (@paulwaugh) September 27, 2019
- Johnson has used an interview with the Sunday Telegraph to announce plans to build 40 “new” hospitals over the next decade. As Edward Malnick reports in his write-up (paywall):
Speaking as the Conservative party’s annual conference gets under way in Manchester, Mr Johnson insists that spending on the NHS is “absolutely central” to his vision of a “united society and a united country”.
He cites the “considerable” weekly savings he insists will result from Brexit as he unveils a hospital-building plan beginning with a £2.7 billion cash injection for six hospitals over the next five years.
The remaining projects, including up to a dozen smaller rural hospitals, will be completed over the second half of the next decade.
As Malnick explains, the government’s definition of a “new” hospital includes a refurbished hospital.
In total, the government is preparing to spend £13 billion constructing what it classes as new hospitals, which officials said would involve either entirely new buildings or the gutting of existing structures to replace facilities with state-of-the-art equivalents.
- Johnson has suggested that the supreme court judgment on prorogation strengthens the case for submitting supreme court justices to US-style confirmation hearings in parliament. Last week Geoffrey Cox, the attorney general, floated this idea in the Commons. Johnson told the Sunday Telegraph (paywall):
It will take a while to be worked through. But I think, if judges are to pronounce on political questions in this way, then there is at least an argument that there should be some form of accountability. The lessons of America are relevant,
- Dominic Raab, the foreign secretary, has told the Mail on Sunday that the government is considering what it might be able to do to over-ride the Benn Act. The paper says:
In his interview with this newspaper, Mr Raab hinted that EU law could – ironically – be used to veto the Benn Act
He said: ‘The Surrender Act – which requires basically us to roll over to the most punitive conditions that Brussels could inflict on us – is a shoddy bit of legislation. The way it was put together was pretty ramshackle. It didn’t have the scrutiny that you have with a Government Bill.’
Mr Raab confirmed that ministers were examining whether they could deploy EU legislation under Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty – which enshrines Theresa May’s delayed leaving date of October 31 – to over-ride the Benn Act.
He said ‘EU law has direct effect, that’s one of the reasons we’re leaving.
‘There are multiple bits of legislation that will play out.’
- Johnson has apologised to the Queen for embarrassing her by requiring her to approve the unlawful suspension of parliament, the Sunday Times reports. In his story (paywall) Tim Shipman says Johnson has angered the Queen. Shipman writes:
The supreme court rebuke has led to a breakdown of trust between Buckingham Palace and Downing Street.
A Whitehall source said: “They are not impressed by what is going on — at the very highest levels of the family.” A royal source confirmed that the Queen’s senior advisers are “fed up”.
A palace official revealed that the prime minister is now as distrusted as David Cameron, who is “beyond the pale” after revealing details of his conversations with the Queen while promoting his memoir.
“It’s difficult to tell which of them they are crosser with, Cameron or Boris,” the source said.
- The Sunday Times is reporting that Jennifer Arcuri told friends she has an affair with Boris Johnson when he was London mayor. Their relationship is under scrutiny because her firm received sponsorship from a mayoral fund and she got access to overseas trade missions.
THE TIMES: “Arcuri ‘told friends of affair with Boris’”#tomorrowspaperstoday pic.twitter.com/KwH3irjX1S
— Politics For All (@PoliticsForAlI) September 28, 2019
Here is the agenda for the day.
8.30am: Matt Hancock, the health secretary, Iain Duncan Smith, the former Tory leader, and David Gauke, the former Tory justice secretary, are among the guests on Sky’s Sophy Ridge on Sunday.
On @RidgeOnSunday from #CPC19
— Sophy Ridge (@SophyRidgeSky) September 28, 2019
✅ Health Secretary @MattHancock
✅ Former leader Iain Duncan Smith
✅ Ex-Conservative MP @DavidGauke
✅ @Nigel_Farage
✅ Greater Manchester Mayor @AndyBurnhamGM
✅ panel of @aliciakearns @Nic_Ironbridge @LauraWirral
⏰ Sunday 8.30am @skynews
9am: The Andrew Marr Show starts. Boris Johnson is the main interviewee.
2pm: Pamela Hall, president of the national convention, opens the conference.
2.10pm: James Cleverly, the party chairman, speaks.
2.20pm: Ben Wallace, the defence secretary, Liz Truss, the international trade secretary, and Aloc Sharma, the international development secretary, speak in a session on building a safe and prosperous Britain.
3.05pm: Dominic Raab, the foreign secretary, speaks.
3.15pm: Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of the Commons, Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, and Steve Barclary, the Brexit secretary, speak in a session on delivering Brexit.
As usual, I will be covering breaking political news as it happens, as well as bringing you the best reaction, comment and analysis from the web, although I will focusing almost exclusively on the Conservative conference. I plan to publish a summary when I wrap up.
You can read all the latest Guardian politics articles here.
If you want to follow me or contact me on Twitter, I’m on @AndrewSparrow.
I try to monitor the comments below the line (BTL) but it is impossible to read them all. If you have a direct question, do include “Andrew” in it somewhere and I’m more likely to find it. I do try to answer questions, and if they are of general interest, I will post the question and reply above the line (ATL), although I can’t promise to do this for everyone.
If you want to attract my attention quickly, it is probably better to use Twitter.
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