See you next time!
Thanks for reading and taking part today. If you’re arriving late don’t worry – you can still get involved in the comments. I’d urge you to have a look at my colleague Martin Belam’s words on the Aberfan disaster, as well as his link out to the incredible piece of work by WalesOnline.
As ever we welcome feedback and your thoughts on what we should be talking about in this space. You can email sarah.marsh@theguardian.com or matthew.holmes@theguardian.com – or speak to us in the comments.
Have a great weekend.
Before we wrap up above the line for the week (you can continue to discuss all the conversation points we’ve raised in the comments) here’s a look at how the poll we launched earlier on Donald Trump is doing.
Updated
More poignant thoughts about the human scale of the Aberfan disaster, particularly on the number of children killed
Attention stargazers
You might notice the blue GuardianWitness buttons above – we are looking for your pictures of the Orionid meteor shower this weekend, so if you are an astronomer do click and have a look.
It seems quite cloudy where we are in London, but have you been out with your camera where you are? Have you been as successful as some of the readers featured in this gallery from earlier in the year?
Updated
A response to that piece on Aberfan from Martin Belam (see 14:56)
I think everyone in this country should spare a moment to remember Aberfan.
In many ways it was a symbol of loss of innocence. Not just for all those lives lost, but also for a realisation on a national level of the way the good and the great tried to wriggle out of their responsibilities.
Sadly history is still repeating itself.
If you go to Wales visit the memorial and vow never to let the State escape responsibility. There should be a sign at the entrance to the village put up saying Question Everything.
Instagram creates a stitch up
Social editor Eleni Stefanou takes us through Instagram’s influence in helping people to a wider audience.
Mainstream media outlets recently made a discovery that Instagram regulars have known for a while: that there are some seriously talented women out there using embroidery to create powerful art.
It started a few weeks ago when Hannah Hill reinterpreted the much-loved Arthur meme to express her frustration at undervalued “women’s work”.
Her creation went viral, triggering a flurry of articles venerating feminist embroidery. Folk are excited because there’s something sweetly satisfying about witnessing the reevaluation of a medium independent of institutional tastemakers.
Can you remember a time before Instagram when this would have been possible?
Cofiwch Aberfan
A disaster which overwhelms a school is a disaster of a special type. In ten minutes a community has lost something like half its children. Their absence will haunt their valley for sixty years to come. No amount of sympathy can fill a gap like that.
Fifty years ago this Guardian editorial predicted the grief and sadness that still surrounds the village of Aberfan, and all of Wales and beyond, about the loss of 116 children and 28 adults on 21 October 1966. One that morning, while children sat in their classes, thousands of tonnes of slurry and coal waste slid down the hill above the village and crushed the primary school.
I found it very difficult this morning to think of anything much else apart from the anniversary. I’m not old enough to remember it myself, but as a parent it touches a raw nerve about how you could ever cope with losing your children in circumstances like that.
And some of the reporting, after all this time, still has the capacity to move you.
Roy Greenslade has published on his blog a letter that Alix Palmer wrote home to her mother from the village, where she had been sent to report for the Daily Express:
I saw such dreadful things, Mummy. They brought out the deputy headmaster, still clutching five children, their bones so hardened that they first had to break his arms to get the children away then their arms to get them apart. And the mothers of two of them watched it happen.
The most impressive coverage I’ve seen today is by WalesOnline. They have produced a beautifully designed special feature on Aberfan, which includes the testimony of several survivors and rescue workers who have never spoken publicly before about their experiences.
I truly urge you to spend some time reading through it – I can’t stop thinking about these words by Melvyn Walker about the impact it had on him as an eight year old who had escaped from one of the classrooms:
I couldn’t go to school for two years. Nobody knew, I couldn’t tell anybody. I used to go out and then head up to the mountainside in my uniform and sit there on my own all day.
As with many man-made disasters, the bereaved then faced a battle with the authorities to get the true nature of what happened recognised. As my colleague Steven Morris wrote today, one father stood up during an inquest after the cause of his child’s death had been given as asphyxia and multiple injuries and declared: “No, sir, buried alive by the National Coal Board. That is what I want to see on record.”
Updated
More views below the line on that Brexit vs the NHS question.
Tories have a lot of responsibility for the problems within the NHS, but others are based on the system itself. It is simply too large and too centralised, for example patients shouldn't need to travel to a central hospital for an ultrasound; patients and their families shouldn't need to explain the same symptoms/history at every shift change to all the new staff. While emergency care is amazing the primary care can be completely patchy depending on where you're unlucky to be ill. In many European countries private capacity is incorporated into health services and it works remarkably well without fears of money grabbing or lousy service. The problem with the Tory approach is that privatisation never really works in the UK, because making profits becomes paramount and share ownership promoted as a virtuous ideal - there are scant examples of real value and improvements being delivered by privatisation. So the problem is a psychological British one: why can't we do privatisation to actually improve service? Other countries do.
Are baby boxes on the way for Scotland?
Another conversation our team of moderators found particularly interesting this week (see 13:35) was around this article on baby boxes in Scotland. An idea from Finland to help new families.
Some of your suggestions were more serious than others ...
A soft lambskin for snuggling down (or 'coorying doon' as my gran used to say) on a cold night.
I'm a Scot living in Finland, despite what some commentators have written receiving the baby box is such a pleasant experience. It's full of useful items mainly for the baby, but there are some things for the parents - such as a packet of condoms, I kid ye not! The box is big and sturdy enough to serve as a bed for the baby for the first few months.
I've long disapproved of the current 'Bounty' pack distributed in hospitals. All one big advertising campaign. Stick a few 'Huggies' in a freebie pack and you have 30 months worth of nappy sales on a plate. Johnsons baby wash and shampoo may smell like heaven but it's a myth that we should bath our babies every night. They don't really get dirty and soap dries their skin, exacerbating eczema. Boots vouchers when every savvy mum knows it's all much cheaper at Pound land (and Lidl and Aldi's nappies are far cheaper and just as good if you don't fancy washable.)
Books and breastfeeding advice would be useful. A list of 'things that are normal, so don't worry' with a poo chart, pictures of benign rashes, like cradle cap and the 6 week spots (erythema toxicum neonatorum). Some paracetamol, a 'snotter sucker' for when you wee Scottish baby gets his first respiratory virus and can't feed and breathe at the same time. A list of local playgroups, coffee mornings..
Never did see the point in muslins, they're totally unabsorbant.
IrnBru, Lorne sausage, a kilt, whiskey dram, deep-fried Mars bar, a proper history of Scotland and its foul oppression for 1000 years, mini-bagpipes, Presbyterian handbook, Proclaimers CD, Frankie Boyle book, Mary Queen of Scots icon.....just for starters. Yay Nicola!!
For boys, a full set of Donald Knuth's The Art of Computer Programming. For girls, a full set of Donald Knuth's The Art of Computer Programming.
Conversation of the week – will Brexit kill the NHS?
Each week we ask our team of moderators to select some of the comment threads they’ve particularly enjoyed or found interesting and worthwhile looking back on.
First up this week was the conversation on this Observer article about Brexit and the NHS.
‘Tories not Brexit’
The NHS is in terminal decline because of Tories, NOT Brexit.
The Tory plans include ....
1. Deterring foreign workers working in the NHS.
2. Closing small facilities round the country for .... "ahem .... efficiency" and therefore forcing more people and increasing pressure on major hospitals.
3. Forcing LAs to close down care, this making hospitals keep "bed-blockers" in the hospitals.
4. Forcing pharmacies to reduce their work thereby increasing pressure on hospitals.
5. Planning to make hospitals collapse.
6. Job done! Proffer the solution - Privatisation. After which tens of billions will be found to support the privateers through the "necessary change" as per railways, Royal Mail, etc etc.
Nothing to do with Brexit.
‘This country does not deserve the NHS’
My daughter has worked in the NHS for over 10 years. As a specialist senior nurse she has witnessed the deliberate damaging of the service both financially and politically, and has had to contend with the privatisation of many necessary satellite services to the paediatrics units. Even the mortuary services were privatised and no longer run 24/7, so corpses have to be kept on ward until Carillion bother to open up in the morning. She is looking for jobs elsewhere and has found that almost all are higher paid with better conditions. This country does not deserve the NHS any more, little Englanders living in a bubble of imagination.
‘Left behind and unheard’
I am not a healthcare professional, but I am a foreigner. It is scary to suddenly come across part of the British population who must have had a simmering anti-foreign sentiment for a long time. I've lived here longer than I lived in my native country and if someone is asking me now if I wanted to become British to make my life here secure, I think I would have to be nearly desperate to do so as this country is split, with nationalism raising its ugly head. Having read plenty of blogs, I can't but help that many of the people having voted BREXIT have done so because they felt left behind and unheard and are under the impression that they will get back what the lost over the last 40 or so years. What they want back cannot be got back as what they want is for globalisation to go away, as the world is so meshed up now that you can't have control as one has to compromise in this globalised world. If people think that foreign people undercut their own wages, ask if something produced or service rendered more expensive than created or done by people in another country will not be left unbought, making it unproductive so that said UK worker will be out of a job soon, never mind if the competition is working within the UK or in another country.
What do you think? Let us know in the comments.
Updated
Pictures of the week
Picture editor Joanna Ruck talks us through some of her favourite images this week.
The Archbishop of New York is clearly feeling the pressure of having to be the buffer between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump during a charity dinner.
Meanwhile, this man tests the theory that there’s never an inappropriate time for a selfie.
And in case you missed Wildlife Photographer of the Year it’s worth checking out this gallery
What were your favourite images this week?
And what if Trump gets wind of our poll?
We can expect this already fractious contest to deteriorate (is that possible?) further, as Trump will undoubtedly suggest his followers "police" the polling stations to make sure the election is not rigged.
The worlds greatest democracy?
Some of you have been taking our poll asking whether Trump can win (see 12:21) – and talking about it in the comments.
If it wasn't for HL Mencken and the rather unfortunate failure of Nate Silver in our own election polling then I really would be in the , stick a fork in him camp, - but ... my faith in human nature is failing.
Who's the outlier that reckons the Donald ' still has a real chance of winning'?
Come on, own up
What did you think of the jokes last night? Hillary Clinton’s Statue of Liberty number (you can see it in the video here) was pretty close to the bone ...
Answer our exciting poll! Does Trump still have a chance?
Are Donald Trump’s chances of making it to the White House waning? After a disastrous third debate, in which the former reality TV star controversially suggested may not accept the result if he lost, this is an increasingly popular view among commentators both above and below the line.
At the Alfred E Smith fundraiser, at which presidential candidates traditionally exchange good-natured barbs, Trump was booed by attendees for his indecorous attacks on fellow attendee Hillary Clinton, and widely criticised afterwards.
Trump's scorched Earth policy was on full display. He knows that he is going to lose and, because of the fact that he is the sorest of losers and regards himself as more important than American democracy, is going to try to undermine confidence in the US electoral system and fuel the flames of civil disobedience on his way out. It is the most self-centered, irresponsible thing a Presidential candidate could ever do. In a word, Trump is a disgrace.
But with little over two weeks to go until the election, is there still chance of an upset? British readers may be wary of declaring a Clinton victory a done deal, with the unexpected Brexit vote still a very recent memory.
Do you think Trump could still win? Or would you bet the farm on a Clinton victory? Vote in our shiny poll and share your views in the comments.
Most read this week
Predictably perhaps, the eyes of the world were on the US this week – with Hilary Clinton and Donald Trump’s debate being the focal point.
After these events we’ve been rounding up some of our readers’ views on what are also often the most commented on stories.
For our readers, there could only be one winner ...
And here’s how Guardian cartoonist Steve Bell saw the debate.
Also on the subject of most read, readers seemed very interested in this tale of sweet, sweet freedom:
I'm just glad that it all ended cordially.
Do you have any highlights you’d like to discuss? Tell us in the comments.
Welcome to this week's social
Hello and welcome. Today we’re going to discuss some of the week’s news, views and favourite bits from around the site that you may have missed, updating this blog as we go with conversation points from readers and journalists. We’ll also highlight some of the ways you’ve been getting involved with and participating in our journalism this week – do join in ...
Most importantly, we’d like to hear what you want to talk about, so let us know in the comments – alternatively you can email sarah.marsh@theguardian.com or matthew.holmes@theguardian.com and we’ll follow up your suggestions.
Updated
The news headline at 10am this morning on BBC radio (5), reminded us all that 50 years ago 144 'people' were killed at Aberfan, 'including many children'.
The headline stuck in my mind as I thought the headline should have stated " .. , 116 were young children". To my mind, the headline understated the tragedy for a small village with only a primary school sited directly below a slag-heap.
I'm sure this was just accidental or lazy, on the BBC's behalf.