Chela Noori, the founder and president of the Afghan Women of France organisation, was recently able to travel across Afghanistan for the first time since the Taliban returned to power in 2021. She told RFI about the conditions in which she found women and girls living, under the oppressive regime.
RFI: How were you able to travel to Afghanistan?
Chela Noori: I travelled to Afghanistan with my British passport. I didn't need a visa because my country of birth on my passport is Afghanistan.
I had never attempted to travel under the Taliban regime before. I didn't know if it would work out or not. In the end, it did. I had no problems at the airport. What I wanted to do was to assess the psychological and humanitarian situation by travelling around the country a little. I visited 15 cities and major provinces and I interviewed many women, but not just women. I also spoke to little girls, little boys, men... I wanted to get everyone's point of view.
What kind of restrictions did you encounter?
Officially, the burqa is mandatory, but in reality this is not always the case. I went there wearing a veil and a long black tunic, and many Afghan women were dressed like that. I was also always accompanied by a "mahram" [a male relative who acts as a chaperone].
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Did you sense any resistance among Afghan women?
For me, resistance in Afghanistan comes from women – that's clear. Here in France, what we hear is that Afghan women are forbidden from leaving their homes unless accompanied by a mahram. But people said to me: "You know the character of Afghan women, they couldn't keep us all locked up at home."
So some manage to go out anyway, even if they don't have a mahram. The Taliban tolerate it, let's say. But the Amr bil-Maroof [the morality police], not at all.
Who are the Amr bil-Maroof?
There are lots of videos circulating on social media showing them beating women in public because they didn't wear their face coverings properly, for example. They find any excuse to reprimand them. There are also kidnappings.
I came face to face with them in Bamyan. I really wanted to visit Band-e-Amir Lake. They made us pay and let us in, but while my mahram was parking, I acted like a typical European and ran over to look because the place is so beautiful. I took out my phone and called my children. I wasn't paying attention and suddenly I realised that someone was talking to me. I saw one of these men looking at me with a murderous expression and repeating in a loud voice: "According to the Amr bil-Maroof, women are not allowed here."
Suddenly, my whole body started shaking. I told him I was with my nephew. But he repeated the same thing. You're not supposed to stand up to them, you're not supposed to talk to them. I turned around politely, and they followed me to the car.
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You weren't allowed to be outside alone as a woman, right?
It's not even just that – it's that all leisure facilities are off limits to women. I tested this everywhere, in Kabul, in Kandahar...
What was the state of mind among the women you met?
I interviewed about 15 young girls and women. The young girls are in a very bad way psychologically, because they are thinking, at 13, we will be banned from school, it will be over [since the return of the Taliban, girls are no longer allowed to go to school beyond primary level].
They start crying because they have no future at all. People are thinking of marrying them off. Since there is no future, it's the only option for them. Those who were studying or working are all extremely depressed. They told me, look, we are at home all day, we get up, we cook, we clean... the only thing we can do is go out to do the shopping or visit each other. But apart from that, there's nothing else to do from morning to night. And since they're not allowed to go out, the children are all at home too.
Can they consider leaving?
All they dream of now is leaving. But it is very difficult to obtain a passport. Since 2023, Pakistan has been sending all Afghans back, and the visa that used to cost $800 (€682) can now cost up to $5,000. Everything is being done to prevent Afghans from leaving the country.
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Did you meet any women who have continued to work or study?
I haven't seen any women studying. Women who work, yes. Everywhere you look, it's women – because it's women who have to search women. At the airport too, at the immigration desk, it was women.
Children are suffering under this regime too, of course...
Yes, what struck me most were the children. Because we talk a lot about women, but very little about the youngest who are suffering.
It's important to note that there are almost no jobs in Afghanistan. So all the adults are unemployed. I noticed that all the streets were spotless everywhere, and it's actually the children who clean them. I asked a few of them about this, and they explained that their parents weren't working, so they had to pay the rent. So they're out there working in the sun all day, without hats, without protection – for, let's say, 50 cents a day.
The humanitarian situation is dire. There are no jobs, so people live on credit. Everyone goes into debt to pay the rent, which is forbidden in Islam. And it's a vicious circle. So when the children manage to find a little work, they bring home money to pay the rent.
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And what did the men you met say about all of this?
I saw anger in the eyes of an impoverished father, who told me: "My dream was that my three daughters wouldn't have to struggle, that they would get an education and make something of themselves, that they wouldn't have to depend on a husband. But in the end, they'll become as dependent as my wife. I hoped they would become doctors and get a good education." And he started to cry.
Are people resigned to their powerlessness, or is there hope for them?
They say, if we lose hope, we will commit suicide. So we hope. We hope – but in the long term. Four years without being able to study is already a big loss in the long term. The message they wanted me to convey here is that we should put pressure on this regime to let them work, let them study.
You mentioned mental health, but physical health is also an issue. If girls can no longer be treated by male doctors and women are no longer being trained as doctors, soon there will be no one left to treat women.
Yes, it's a lost generation. There won't be any more female doctors. For now, there are a few who are still working. But in the long term, there won't be any more female doctors. Everything is being done to ensure that there are no more.
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You went to Kabul, but also to other parts of the country, such as Kandahar, Jalalabad and Herat. Did you notice any differences between the capital and the provinces?
What's incredible is that I saw the same situation, the same atmosphere, everywhere I went. Whether in big cities, large provinces or small villages, it was the same thing. They have established a form of security – but the insecurity only existed because of them. When they took power, they established this form of peace through dictatorship.
You mentioned pockets of resistance. Did you see any other forms of resistance or solidarity among Afghan women?
Today, all beauty salons and hairdressers are closed. However, I noticed that there were still many lavish weddings taking place, so I asked about this. They explained that they were all going to one person's house to do their makeup. They are doing what they used to do, but hidden away at home. That is our form of resistance.
This article has been adapted from the original version in French.
Click here to read more about Afghan Women of France (in French).
