‘You have your time, Bernie’: Rand Paul and Sanders in Senate dustup over letting RFK-fired CDC chief answer

“Even under pressure, I could not replace evidence with ideology or compromise my integrity,” Monarez said. “I was fired for holding the line on scientific integrity. I could have stayed silent, agreed to the demands, and no one would have known.”

In June, Kennedy, a longtime anti-vaxer, dismissed the entire ACIP board and replaced them with a host of vaccine skeptics. On Thursday, the newly assembled ACIP will convene and have a hearing on the Hepatitis B vaccine.

Almost as soon as the hearing began, tension arose between Democrats and Republicans when Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) wanted to swear in Monarez and Debra Houry, the former chief medical officer at the CDC. But Sanders objected because Kennedy had not been forced to go under oath when he testified.

In addition, Paul, an ophthalmologist and libertarian who criticized the CDC, grilled Monarez about the Covid-19 vaccine, asking if it prevented transmission, reduced hospitalization or childhood death.

“You wouldn’t fire the people who were saying that we have to vaccinate our kids at six months of age,” Paul asked.

“That assertion is not commensurate with the experience that I had with the individuals,” she said, which led Paul to interrupt her.

In response, Sanders, who is the ranking member of the committee, asked Paul to let Monarez answer the question. That prompted Sen. Bill Cassidy (R-La.), the HELP Committee chairman, to hit the gavel.

“You have your time, Bernie, I have mine,” Paul said.

Monarez and Houry detailed how Kennedy sought to undermine the credibility of vaccination and public health authorities. Houry said that she first saw that HHS had changed its guidance for the Covid-19 vaccine on a social media post on X.

“CDC scientists have still not seen the scientific data or justification for this change,” she said. “That is not gold standard science.”

Houry said that she had never briefed Kennedy during her tenure at the CDC about the measles outbreak.

“In an outbreak response, usually you'd be briefing leadership,” Houry said in response to a question from Collins. She also said in response to a question from Sen. Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisc.) that she only gave him a tour of the CDC after the shooting in Atlanta that led to the killing of a police officer.

“The second thing is, he said that vaccines had fetal parts. And I had to send a note to our leadership to correct that misinformation,” Houry said.

Cassidy, who faces reelection, led most of the hearing. A physician, he voted to confirm Kennedy alongside all but one other Republican senator. But Cassidy raised concerns about the chaos at the public health agency.

During his opening questioning, Cassidy asked Monarez whether Kennedy cited any data or science when asking to approve the ACIP recommendation for childhood vaccine schedules.

“To be clear, he said there was no science or data, but that he still expected you to change the schedule,” Cassidy asked, to which Monarez said, “Correct.”

Cassidy also asked if Kennedy communicated that he would change the childhood vaccination schedule.

“He said that the childhood vaccine schedule would be changing starting in September, and I needed to be onboard with it,” he said. When asked whether Kennedy said he was speaking for the president, Monarez said, “in that morning meeting, he did say that he had spoken to the president. He spoke to the president every day about changing the childhood vaccine schedule.”

The chairman was not the only Republican to raise concerns. Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska) asked about the politicization of the CDC.

“I'm concerned that when career scientists are excluded, maybe completely excluded, from the director's office, what happens?” Murkowski says. “Who does then provide the scientific expertise, the institutional memory that is needed to guide the agencies?”

Other Republicans were not as generous. Sen. Roger Marshall (R-Kan.) blamed the CDC for vaccine hesitancy.

“I think the CDC is the cause of vaccine hesitancy, that you are the problem,” he said. “That because of Covid, and your forcing these vaccines on people that weren’t ever proven or justified, that the benefits didn’t outweigh the risks, and you all sat there with your hands in your pockets.”

By the same token, Sen. Ashley Moody (R-Fla.), a freshman, criticized the fact that Monarez and Houry hired lawyers Mark Zaid and Abbe Lowell, whom she characterized as “anti-Trump lawyers.”

“Is there some reason you don’t want to introduce the senators to the lawyers that are here,” she said, saying that Monarez’s lawyers are trying to “embarrass the president or go after the president.”

“Did you plan to coordinate this public spectacle surrounding your firing?” Moody asked, which led to Monarez saying “no.”

That led to Cassidy responding by saying that it was entirely appropriate for Monarez to contact him and that he contacted Kennedy and the White House and to express concern.

“As soon as the director was fired, the HELP Committee began reviewing the situation, as it is our responsibility,” he said.

Sanders corroborated Cassidy’s words.

“I find it rather astounding that anyone is concerned that government heads of agencies talk to elected officials of the United States of American,” Sanders said. “That is what they’re supposed to do.”