Just days after launching an unprecedented operation in Venezuela to seize its president and effectively take control of its oil industry, Donald Trump sat down with New York Times journalists for a wide-ranging interview that took in international law, Taiwan, Greenland and weight-loss drugs.
The president, riding high on the success of an operation that has upended the rules of global power, spoke candidly and casually about the new world order he appears eager to usher in; an order governed not by international norms or long-lasting alliances, but national strength and military power.
Here are some key points from his interview with the Times.
US is in Venezuela for the long haul
When asked how long he would be “running Venezuela”, Trump said it would be “much longer” than a year.
After Trump initially claimed that the US was running the South American country, in the hours after the operation that seized President Nicolás Maduro, members of Trump’s cabinet sought to downplay America’s role in its governance. Since then however, Trump has continued to assert that he is in fact “in charge”.
Saturday’s operation in Caracas has been described by some as a violation of international law, but in his conversation with the Times, Trump said, “I don’t need international law.”
When asked if there were any limits on his powers on the world stage, Trump said: “Yeah, there is one thing. My own morality. My own mind.”
Trump said he was “getting along very well” with interim president Delcy Rodríguez, adding that the US would be taking the country’s oil and “giving money to Venezuela, which they desperately need”.
Seize Greenland or preserve the Nato alliance?
Trump has spent the days since the attack on Venezuela renewing his push for the US to acquire Greenland and has not ruled out using military force to take it. He has framed the issue as one of national security, but when pushed by White House correspondent David E Sanger on why he hasn’t chosen to simply reopen bases and send troops to Greenland under the terms of a decades-old treaty, Trump insisted the territory must be part of the US.
“I think that ownership gives you a thing that you can’t do with … a lease or a treaty,” the president said, adding “that’s what I feel is psychologically needed for success.”
When asked by the Times whether obtaining Greenland or preserving the Nato alliance was more important, Trump declined to answer. He did however acknowledge that it “may be a choice” between the two options.
Greenland was formerly ruled by Denmark – which still controls its foreign and security policies – and both countries are members of Nato. However in his interview on Wednesday, Trump said that alliance was essentially useless without the US.
“I think we’ll always get along with Europe, but I want them to shape up … If you look at Nato, Russia I can tell you is not at all concerned with any other country but us,” he said.
Taiwan is safe, for now ...
When asked whether his actions in Venezuela may set a precedent for China to invade Taiwan, Trump said he saw no similarities between the two scenarios.
“You didn’t have drugs pouring into China … You didn’t have the jails of Taiwan opened up and the people pouring into China,” Trump said, describing Venezuela as a “real threat”.
In the days after the attack on Venezuela, commentators in China leapt on the operation as an example of how an assault on Taiwan could play out. Leaders in the UK and Europe have also suggested China may be emboldened by Trump’s actions.
The president, however, appeared sanguine about such a threat. He said it was up to Chinese leader Xi Jinping what China does in Taiwan, but added he would be “very unhappy” with a change in the status quo.”
China views democratically governed Taiwan as its own – despite the rejection of such an idea by most Taiwanese people. Beijing has said it could use military force to take Taiwan, but the US president said he didn’t believe that Xi would make such a move during his term of power.
“He may do it after we have a different president, but I don’t think he’s going to do it with me as president,” Trump said.
Nuclear arms control treaty with Russia can lapse
Trump indicated he would allow the last US-Russia strategic arms control treaty to expire, and did not say whether he would accept an offer made by Vladimir Putin in September last year for both sides to voluntarily maintain the limits on nuclear weapons deployments, once it ends.
“If it expires, it expires,” Trump said of the 2010 New Start accord, which is set to end in February. “We’ll just do a better agreement.”
Arms control advocates fear the world’s two biggest nuclear powers will begin deploying strategic warheads beyond the pact’s limits after it expires. Thomas Countryman, a former top state department arms control official, said there were “plenty of advocates in the Trump administration … for doing exactly that.”
Trump has however said in the past that he would like to maintain the limits set out in the treaty after it expires. The agreement limits the US and Russia to deploying no more than 1,550 warheads on 700 delivery vehicles – missiles, bombers and submarines.
Under its current terms, New Start cannot be extended – the treaty allowed one extension and Putin and then president Joe Biden agreed to roll it over for five years in 2021.
Trump told the Times that China, which has the world’s fastest-growing strategic nuclear force, should be included in a treaty that replaces New Start.
Trump at his most casual, candid and conspiratorial
The Times reported that throughout the nearly two-hour interview Trump “tried on a full range of the personas he has used for decades in public life”, describing him as a “complainer”, a “father figure” and a “gracious host,” dispensing Diet Cokes at the push of a button.
Transcripts and clips of the interview released by the Times showed a president eager to embrace the freedom he wields as a leader untethered from many of the conventions that kept his predecessors in check.
He candidly described his worldview, and when an aide emerged with a note informing him that “Colombian President Gustavo Petro is calling for you,” Trump put a “conspiratorial” finger to his lips to silence the group, and began the call in full view of the journalists interviewing him.
Even when taking questions on his health, a topic that in the past has angered the president, Trump appeared calm, the Times said. When asked whether he had taken weight-loss drugs like Ozempic, Trump appeared to make joke, saying “I probably should.”
With Reuters
