After the BBC Director General Tim Davie resigned over the Trump Panorama editing scandal last month, one of the first text messages he received was from former Match of the Day presenter Gary Lineker. The ex England striker asked if he was OK.
“I got a message straight back which was nice,” reports Lineker. “I always liked Tim and, let’s face it, the Director General of the BBC is the only other job that compares to being a football manager in that you’re going to get kicked out at some point.”
It must’ve been a poignant moment. After all, in May Lineker himself left his BBC role earlier than planned following a furore over a social media post (Lineker had shared an antisemitic video on Instagram; he apologised and departed before presenting next summer’s World Cup as originally intended). And in the past Davie had to defend charges of alleged BBC impartiality involving Lineker several times, even controversially suspending him from MOTD in 2023 after he slammed the then-Conservative government’s immigration policy (Davie’s decision triggered an MOTD staff walk-out).
Now both have left the Beeb. Does Lineker feel sorry for the corporation in the Trump saga (following the Panorama incident, the US President is threatening to sue the corporation for between $1 and $5 billion)?
The only place the BBC is probably a bit partial is the board. There is massive influence and Tim Davie has paid the price
“The BBC is still the most trusted and respected media organisation on the planet. I don’t know what led them to do what they did. They didn’t even need to. I suspect it was just some kind of error. I can’t imagine anyone thinking, ‘If we put that there it makes him look worse’. It’s very difficult for the BBC and I’ve always felt that way. There are thousands of brilliant people working there but they’ve tied themselves up in knots a little bit with their impartiality rules.
“If you’ve got 50 people telling you the earth is round and one telling you it’s flat, you have to have the one saying it’s flat for balance. And if there is any partiality of the BBC, it’s not decision-making people. They’re just people doing their job. The only place it’s probably a bit partial is the board, and that’s something that I think needs looking at. At the moment there’s massive influence and Tim Davie’s paid the price.”
Lineker left MOTD with the tearful sign-off, “It wasn’t meant to end this way.” Like Davie, you paid a high price, no?
“I don’t think it’s cost me anything,” he shrugs. “I’ve left the BBC, but that was beautiful, because everyone supported me. I think people recognised I did nothing untoward, that I was just factually correct, but it was tough. You’ve got to remember, when I joined social media in 2012 the BBC guidelines didn’t apply at all because they only applied to those in news or current affairs.
“That changed in 2018-19, so they just moved the goalposts and expected us just to go along with it. There’s no contract, nothing written, just guidelines. So I just carried on as normal and they had to like it or lump it. I didn’t ever give my political views; never, ever said who I vote for, ever, because I know where the boundaries are. But I’ve been there [at the BBC] for 30 years, so you’re going to have the odd fallout.”
I'm so comfortable now — not answerable to anyone, not even the BBC
We deal with the specifics of the social media post which curtailed his BBC career. Lineker re-posted a video from the Palestine Lobby titled “Zionism explained in two minutes”. The clip included an image of a rat, a widely used antisemitic trope, which Lineker says he didn’t see. “I missed something. It wasn’t deliberate. I missed an emoji… I don’t think there’s a single person that believed I would do something like that, because I would never associate any group of people, any person, with a rodent, obviously. Why would I be stupid? I am stupid, but not that stupid. So I think everyone accepted that and I thought the apology should have been enough. But it wasn’t.
“It’s fine, and actually, now, in hindsight, it’s great. I don’t have to tread on eggshells anymore. I get on with my life. I was going to finish on the World Cup on BBC so that’s the only thing. And actually, now I’m free to do what I want at the World Cup, which I think is great because we’ll do a podcast every day.”
We’ll come to his podcasts. But he adds that while he used to enjoy social media, it has become “horrible”. Even so, there is one thing he won’t compromise on.
Most people that shout about freedom of speech love it until they disagree with something, and then they don’t think you should have freedom of speech
“I believe in freedom of speech,” he asserts. “And most people that shout about freedom of speech love it until they disagree with something, and then they don’t think you should have freedom of speech.”
The 65-year-old broadcaster looks trim and tanned following a trip to Mexico, where he was inducted into the International Football Hall of Fame along with other former players like World Cup-winning Spanish goalkeeper Iker Casillas and Colombian goalkeeper René Higuita (famous for an astonishing “scorpion-kick” goalmouth clearance against England at Wembley in 1995). Lineker says he feels honoured to join the likes of Maradona and Ronaldinho in the hall of fame.
“And Ronaldo… the good Ronaldo,” he adds with a twinkle. “Only joking!” (Ronaldo Luís Nazário de Lima was a Brazilian star in the 1990s. However, we are talking the morning after Portuguese superstar Cristiano Ronaldo had dinner with Trump at the White House).
When they retire many players get into management, media punditry or they buy a pub. Not Lineker. His post-soccer career has been more interesting than most. We are meeting in “dressing room one” at the Royal Festival Hall. Frank Sinatra, Jimi Hendrix and Michelle Obama have all sat in here before taking to the RFH stage. Now it’s his turn as he announces his contribution to the 75th anniversary celebrations of the Southbank Centre (not to mention the 1951 Festival of Britain) next year.
The year-round festivities will include a celebration of youth culture involving thousands of participants called You Are Here, designed by film director Danny Boyle. That’s in May. In June a landmark exhibition by Anish Kapoor will open at the Hayward Gallery and there’ll be a national programme of art, literature and music involving one million people in 40 towns and cities.
And Lineker’s contribution? Opinions. Lots of them. He co-owns Goalhanger, the company responsible for some of the biggest podcasts in the world.
“The Rest is History [hosted by Dominic Sandbrook and Tom Holland] is now one of the biggest podcasts in the world,” beams Lineker. And so it is. He originally founded the company in 2014 with his friend Tony Pastor, former ITV head of sport, and the former BBC executive Jack Davenport, to make sporting documentaries, before later setting up its podcast division — to incredible success. The Rest is History listenership exploded during the pandemic, and was followed by The Rest is Politics in 2022, hosted by Alastair Campbell and Rory Stewart, and The Rest is Football and …Entertainment in 2023.
Goalhanger now has 13 shows pulling in 70 million monthly downloads. Accounts filed at Companies House in February this year show retained earnings for Goalhanger rose from £590,000 in 2023 to £2.03 million last year, indicating a £1.4m profit. Cash in the company’s bank account rose from £560,000 to £2.7m. Its presenters are now earning life-changing salaries, with Rory Stewart calling it “championship footballer money”. TRIH reportedly earns its hosts Holland and Sandbrook £1 million a year each (Goalhanger hosts aren’t paid a salary, they get a third of the show’s advertising revenue each with the company taking the final third).
Next September Lineker will field his all-star team for a series of live events at the Southbank called The Rest is Fest. As with the original Festival of Britain, they will look forward to what politics, entertainment, media and, yes, even football (Lineker hosts The Rest is Football alongside Alan Shearer and Micah Richards) might look like over the next 75 years.
But perhaps Lineker has already seen the future.
“I went to Dominic and Tom’s live show [The Rest is History: Mozart and Beethoven with a live orchestra at the Royal Albert Hall in October 2024]. Seeing these two middle-aged blokes treated like the Beatles was just incredible,” he enthuses. “Our audiences love great storytelling and they want to learn. School kids tell me they prefer our podcasts to lessons because they’re inspiring. Occasionally I might meet someone who says, ‘Oh, I heard that Michael Gove last week, I don’t like him,’ but I think that is perfectly understandable.”
Again, the Lineker twinkle…
If there’s a “secret sauce”, says Lineker, it’s civility. Hosts may hold passionate opinions but they must agree to “disagree agreeably”.
So you worry Lineker is struggling without his £1.35 million BBC salary? That seems doubtful. Lineker is a bona fide media mogul. Could he one day challenge the BBC?
“No, no, no, podcasting is a very quickly growing genre and we got in early, but we never take it for granted, because things can change quickly,” he says. Is there a Goalhanger charter? For example, if he was offered £10 billion in morally questionable cash would he think about it? “Yeah, I’ll take 10 billion then give it all away. That’s what I don’t understand about billionaires. How much do you need? Imagine the good you could do with 10 billion quid. You could solve homelessness but they never do, these billionaires, and they don’t even pay tax. I just think, ‘What’s wrong with you?’”
Are there ads you would refuse?
“I won’t do gambling ads. I have two friends that lost everything because gambling made their lives terrible. Pete Shilton [the former England goalkeeper who lost millions to a gambling addiction] is now campaigning against gambling advertising and Willie Thorne [the former snooker player who amassed gambling debts of more than £1 million] who sadly lost his life a few years ago. Listen, I’ve got no problem with people having a little bet on the golf or something but it’s the way these companies entice youngsters into betting, by giving them a free bet, an account, and then they get into trouble. And if any of our podcast hosts are a bit uncomfortable with an ad or a sponsor, then we just say no.”
Trump’s had a pop at us, it’s great for business — and Rory Stewart is easily articulate enough to handle JD Vance
It all sounds eminently centrist and reasonable. But make no mistake, Lineker still has enemies. A big draw at The Rest is Fest will surely be a live TRIP debate titled US Trump on a Knife Edge. They’re sure to be listening at the White House since, earlier this year, US Vice President JD Vance attacked TRIP host Rory Stewart for views expressed on the podcast. Vance accused Stewart of “false arrogance” and overestimating his own IQ after Stewart questioned his understanding of Christian values.
Lineker looks delighted when I mention it. “Trump’s had a pop too occasionally and, you know what, it’s great for business,” he chuckles. “I think Rory is easily articulate enough to handle JD Vance.”
After the Festival of Britain in 1951, playwright Michael Frayn wrote a famous essay in which he predicted the “herbivores” (socially-conscious, middle-class festival-goers backing social change) would succumb to the “carnivores” (those resisting post-war social reform), while Winston Churchill reportedly called the festival “three-dimensional socialist propaganda”.
Is the UK on a knife edge too? “Yes, in some ways. There are always ups and downs in politics, but there is an attempt to divide us and make people enemies whether it’s refugees or asylum seekers. Kindness has gone away. But I think actually, in reality, 90 per cent of us just want to get on with each other, live our lives, help and understand people. I think we’re an unbelievably welcoming country and always have been.”
Lineker says recently elected New York mayor Zohran Mamdani and the new head of the Green Party, Zack Polanski, give him hope. “I think they’re really encouraging and refreshing, they’re talking about good scenarios rather than just driving people against each other. So I’m cautiously optimistic.”
One thing’s for certain, we’re going to be seeing a lot of Lineker in the future. Next year he’ll front a new prime-time Saturday-night game show on ITV called The Box and there are rumours Netflix will host The Rest is Football during the 2026 World Cup. “I can neither confirm nor deny that,” he says cagily (the deal is confirmed a few days later).
What about rumours he will present the Women’s World Cup in 2027? “No idea where that came from. That’s not happening.”
Lineker was an England, not to mention Barcelona and Spurs, legend, famously never being so much as booked in 654 games. Would he have made it as a footballer now? “Oh God yes, football is so much easier now, the surfaces are like billiard tables!” he beams before launching into an effortless pod-style analysis. Better surfaces mean less injuries. VAR means strikers get kicked less or that more penalties are awarded meaning more goals. Also, defenders aren’t as good as they used to be.
“If you scored around one goal every two games in my era, you were one of the top strikers in football. Now it’s pretty much a goal per game; that shows you how much the game has changed in favour of strikers.”
Pound for pound, were you better than Harry Kane?
“No, Harry Kane’s a better footballer than me. I was a pure penalty area goal scorer. I mean, I could do the essentials but Harry could play as a 10. He’s hitting 50 yard balls and great passes. I was quicker than Harry but… there’s no question he’s a better player.”
The night before this interview Scotland qualified for the World Cup in stunning fashion. Wales and Northern Ireland are still in with a chance. Will he really not miss presenting it all on the BBC? “No, I’d rather do it the way we’re going to do it,” he says. He lives alone in Barnes, west London with his rescue dog Filbert. Sometimes if he records a podcast at home he’ll indulge his love of cooking by catering for the crew and hosts. He can do it all. Spanish recipes picked up during his stint in Barcelona, Japanese from his time playing in for Nagoya Grampus Eight in the early 1990s.
“That’s my one real regret in life: that I didn’t learn to cook earlier. After I last became single nine years ago I ate takeaways or sat in restaurants by myself.”
Many won’t like to think of Lineker sitting alone in a restaurant. Is he dating?
“No, can’t be arsed,” he shrugs. “I’m so comfortable with how I live now: not answerable to anyone, not even the BBC. I’m very kind of stuck in my ways. I love women’s company. I’ve got a lot of female friends, genuinely just friends, and I go out to dinner or cook for them but I just can’t see myself dating again.
“I’ve had two amazing marriages, and I’m still friendly with both exes. Danielle [Bux, a model whom he divorced in 2016] is probably my best friend, and it’s much better that way than being married.”
I can’t get the image out of my head. Gary Lineker, England football legend, once the BBC’s highest paid broadcaster and now head of a media empire based on chat, sitting by himself at his local Italian, Riva, in Barnes.
Really? “If you sit in a restaurant alone, no one argues with you,” he says with that Lineker twinkle. “You can’t get in trouble for saying the wrong thing.”
Tickets for The Rest is Fest at the Southbank Centre in September 2026 are available to Goalhanger and Southbank members now and to the general public from December 11; southbankcentre.co.uk
