Rail union leaders today warned “we’re further away than when we started” in trying to reach a deal after eight months of strikes.
Asked to give his hopes on a scale of one to 10, Aslef general secretary Mick Whelan blasted: “I think you can include zero.”
The train drivers’ union boss told a panel of MPs: “We’re further away than when we started.”
TSSA general secretary Frank Ward backed the grim verdict saying: “I wouldn’t disagree”.
RMT general secretary Mick Lynch was more moderate, saying “it depends on discussions” and “I’m not going to use a scale.”
Mr Lynch said talks between RMT and Network Rail happened on Tuesday and talks with the train operating firms are due on Thursday.
But he had a string of clashes with Tory MPs at the Transport Committee, telling them the railway was “absolutely useless” on non-strike days anyway and blaming them for driving people away.
Ministers are reportedly preparing to let train firms offer the RMT a 10% pay rise over two years - up from 8%.
Demands for driver-only operated (DOO) trains - which were previously made alongside a 10% offer - could reportedly be “watered down”.
But sources in the RMT and government both told the Mirror the claims were speculation.
And Mr Lynch told the committee: “We will not accept driver-only operation in any company without a fight.
“We will not sign up to accepting DOO. It will never happen when I’m the general secretary, it will never happen as long as the RMT exists.”
Unions are deciding whether to announce fresh strike dates after the first week of 2023 was hit by a string of walkouts.
Network Rail chief negotiator Tim Shoveller told MPs there’s “every chance” talks will be resolved, as only 2,000 RMT members need to be persuaded to change their minds.
Mr Shoveller rated progress at seven out of 10 - saying there were two or three remaining issues to focus on, and talks were “on the right track”.
Some union members were returning to work or felt the RMT referendum on the deal was “too short”, he said, and he is “perpetually optimistic”.
But Mr Lynch insisted: “The demands that are being made on us are very difficult for us to accommodate.”
Mr Lynch warned talks were a “challenge” and ministers "didn't lift the telephone or lift a finger" to stop December strikes.
At the same time the government have an “almost Stalinist obsession with central control” over the train firms, he added.
He told MPs “there’s loads of money in the railway - it’s been made by private sector operators” and said ministers decided to “provoke and attack the workforce”.
"That is a deliberate policy of the Government of this country, to lower the wages of working people right across the spectrum,” he told MPs.
Asked by Tory MP Greg Smith if he accepted strikes were driving people away from the railways he replied: “No, you are. Your government.”
And he told Tory MP Jack Brereton: “What was expected in the DFT was we’d have zero support and we’d be back to work with no strikes by the end of June, once your friends in the Daily Mail and the Telegraph and all these other journals followed me from my house to the station, invaded my children’s Facebook pages and all the rest of it, that we would be public enemies number one.
“We’re not. I’m a more popular person than many of the politicians in this room, unfortunately for the public.”
Drivers’ union leader Mr Whelan said his “first knowledge” of a recent deal stacked with “red lines” was when he was asked by the press last Friday.
He said people “deliberately scuppered any chance of a deal by putting out things that had already been declined.”
He added: “After four years without a significant pay offer, we need a clean pay offer to move forward.”
Mr Whelan laughed out loud at Tory MP Chris Loder, who asked what “direction” he had from the Labour Party.
He said: "Excuse me for laughing, unfortunately no, I've had no discussions with anybody. We have briefed members of the shadow cabinet on our position, as a trade union.
“But no direct discussion or policy in relation to this dispute coming from the leadership of the Labour Party."
He pointed out some of his positions were directly opposed to Keir Starmer.
Drivers’ union leader Mr Whelan said drivers “hate” driver-only operation.
Mr Lynch added Tory ministers were “daft” and “sabotaged” a deal by including it.
“We will never accept that we will introduce the removal of more guards from trains,” he said. “We won’t accept that. And we won’t continue with any talks that have that as a pre-requisite.”
